Are our jeans doing their job?

[dmaz]

We all know that denim jeans were initially designed to be workwear, but can our beloved double ringspun, rope dyed, edo/ai pure indigo, hand cut and sewn in Japan, single-cropped organic selvage, really stand up to the quality they and everyone else advertises? I see crotches getting blown out, chainstiching unraveling, pocket stitching coming undone, back pockets coming off, etc. I would like some opinions on what jeans have stood the abuse it takes to get beautiful the fading/story we love.

My limited experience involves 5ep, Pure Blue Japan, and Samurai. I've been wearing my PBJ's everyday for the last 2 months and the crotch stitching is starting to rip ala Carl's and the chainstitch at one hem is unraveling. The Samurai 5000vx that I had, the pocket stitching was coming out just like everyone elses. Fortunately, I have had my 5ep's for exactly a year, and NOTHING is wrong with them. They are truly tough-ass jeans and I know I got my money's worth.

Everyone else?

[Dick Danger]

Who lost a pocket?

[eastcoastrider27]

It probably has something to do with the fact that workers didn't downsize their jeans a few sizes to get the superfuture fit.

[stevoe88]

It probably has something to do with the fact that workers didn't downsize their jeans a few sizes to get the superfuture fit.

Totally agree.

[SanLC]

The back pocket stitching doesn't have a lot to do with quality, but I do see a lot of crotch holes. Usually the cause is a really slim fit or bike riding a lot. Some brands do get crotch holes with not that much wear though.

[Tiranis]

It probably has something to do with the fact that workers didn't downsize their jeans a few sizes to get the superfuture fit.

Tight fit + not washing for too long = bad combination for workwear. If you want your jeans to last you should either not wear them the SuFu way or you should wash them once a month or so.

Having two pairs that you alternate between will do wonders too, and not just because you get twice less wear.

[LA Guy]

Well, to begin with, a lot of the Japanese companies use pure cotton thread, to simulate original construction methods. Modern companies (including 5EP, which imo, blends great denim with great modern construction, imo) use cotton covered poly thread, for the most part, which has more stretch, will not fray as easily, and is just plain tougher. Also, what constitutes "better denim" is very subjective. Certainly, better /= more durable. Super slubby denim, for example, is going to abrade much faster than smooth denim, thus the problems with Pure Blue Japans.

I think that it is funny that there are always posts about Pure Blue Japans bowing out at the crotch, and yet durability is often cited as the reason people like the Japanese brands and shit on brands like Seven. The interesting thing about many of the Japanese brands is the denim itself, not the hardware (in many cases, mediocre,) the design (the fit of Samurais suck on most people, to be frank), nor the construction. And the great thing about the Japanese denim is that it looks, feels, great, not that it lasts any longer than, say, Turkish denim.

[Tarmac]

downsizing is the culprit. Most people who bought workwear bought it slightly oversized and wore suspenders or a belt. Look around even today, every construction worker, kitchen helper/plumber/mechanic wears a belt.

[thelion1856]

downsizing is the culprit. Most people who bought workwear bought it slightly oversized and wore suspenders or a belt. Look around even today, every construction worker, kitchen helper/plumber/mechanic wears a belt.

SO RIGHT! workwear was never ment to be downsized. If you've seen some pics of vintage levis/jeans from the 20's 30's ect, you will notice they are baggy or large. Also i dont think they biked or skateboarded in them doing kickflips or other sports while wearing jeans. Thats my opinion.

[shinobi2000]

because i like my jeans a little long, i'm always steping on the back of the opening with my heels. By far that is always the first place to wear down and rip. So far, NO pair has withstood the abrasion of my heel step. Even my 5EPs which I love have break down there.

[lithiumsys]

Yes, the smell of them repels women just fine.

[PG2G]

My PBJ are invincible. The damn things won't fade, let alone tear. Nothing puts a dent in them, not wallets, not keys, nothing.

[bruised]

my 45rpm are indestructable.

[tony_hige]

I agree with all replies, plus have you seen what work does to jeans? it tears them the hell up - take a look at the photographs of the vintage workwear denim jeans and overalls in the "Found" book - they're ALL tore up and patched and repatched.

[justinbaily21]

I feel like I'm wearing kevlar when I put my Sams on. Can't imagine a knife really doing that much to these.

Or fire, for that matter.

[watchman]

I hardly think that pocket stitching coming out is an indicator of quality. It seems like more an indicator of fit.

[dmaz]

Well, to begin with, a lot of the Japanese companies use pure cotton thread, to simulate original construction methods. Modern companies (including 5EP, which imo, blends great denim with great modern construction, imo) use cotton covered poly thread, for the most part, which has more stretch, will not fray as easily, and is just plain tougher. Also, what constitutes "better denim" is very subjective. Certainly, better /= more durable. Super slubby denim, for example, is going to abrade much faster than smooth denim, thus the problems with 5EP.

I think that it is funny that there are always posts about Pure Blue Japans bowing out at the crotch, and yet durability is often cited as the reason people like the Japanese brands and shit on brands like Seven. The interesting thing about many of the Japanese brands is the denim itself, not the hardware (in many cases, mediocre,) the design (the fit of Samurais suck on most people, to be frank), nor the construction. And the great thing about the Japanese denim is that it looks, feels, great, not that it lasts any longer than, say, Turkish denim.

Interesting points LA Guy and everyone else. I didn't know 5ep used cotton coated poly threads (though I knew they were different), that explains the durability. I totally agree that the Japanese jeans excel in denim and dyeing, but are not necessarily more durable in construction/hardware. But it IS funny how everyone goes Japanese for quality and durability. I had many pairs of diesel jeans years ago that I beat to hell, and could still probably still wear them to this day.

So what I've gathered from this forum is that Sugarcane, 45rpm, APC, and 5ep are among the best blends of overall quality.

Watchman - front pocket stitching shouldn't be coming out on 90% of Sammies

[denimdestroyedmylife]

the fault, dear dmaz, is not in our jeans, but in ourselves, that we are lazy mufuggas

[tweeds]

et tu ddml?

plenty of interesting points brought up in the thread - something i've always wondered as well, especially since i often have to justify my expenditure on jeans to my own nagging conscience. to what extent are we actually paying for quality (in the long-lasting sense)?

[Chicken]

the backpocket stitchings on many japanese brands, including samurais, are designed to come off relatively easily. it's an intentional effect people look for as they wear out their jeans.

and i think people are spot on about downsizing and the effect on pbjs.

[Blackplatano]

Looking at the skulls thread, i see a lot of jeans coming apart a la nudie.

The crotch rips on the PBJ have already come up.

Samurai gets a lot of repairs.

Where's the durabillity?

[sam113]

Its simple-

Any sized down jean + sagging = crotch blowouts.

[Blackplatano]

Its simple-

Any sized down jean + sagging = crotch blowouts.

no, let's not use the fit as a scape goat.

Cowboys didn't wear their jeans sized up. They wore them shrink to fit as tight as possible. They used it as the workwear it was meant for. Yet the crotch didn't blow out.

Also, work jeans are not washed as frequenly as everyday jeans. If a worker gets his jeans dirty every day, why would he wash them so they can get dirty 5 minutes later. So infrequent washing is not to blame either.

The answer is simple.

our jeans are not doing their jobs

[tangerine]

Why are people saying cowboys/workers didn't get crotch blowouts? Look at vintage levis on ebay, lots of them have repairs, as stated earlier, and often around the seat and crotch.

I do think that skating puts a lot of stress on the crotch seam.

I have noticed on some of my jeans that the bottom of the piece of fabric where the fly buttons are attached, the corner at the j-stitch, rubs against the fabric from the back making a hole in the crotch, often after a short time. This has happened on "regular" fit jeans as well as superfuture fit ones; I think it is a design problem in how that piece of fabric is cut and sewed.

[HEWSINATOR]

no, let's not use the fit as a scape goat.

Cowboys didn't wear their jeans sized up. They wore them shrink to fit as tight as possible. They used it as the workwear it was meant for. Yet the crotch didn't blow out.

Also, work jeans are not washed as frequenly as everyday jeans. If a worker gets his jeans dirty every day, why would he wash them so they can get dirty 5 minutes later. So infrequent washing is not to blame either.

The answer is simple.

our jeans are not doing their jobs

I would agree to some extent. I think fit is not 100%, but does contribute.

Very good counterpoints.

[sam113]

I agree, Tang.

Just the fact that they spent all their time in the saddle would have led to faster wear in the crotch- much like the effect riding a bike alot in your jeans has.

I wasn't around in the time of the cowboys (although my younger friends would probably make cracks along those lines), but I doubt if they wore their jeans as tight as possible. Anyone using jeans as workwear needed room to move in them.

I have many pair of dry denim, and the only ones that the crotch blew out on are the ones that I sagged. It puts much more strain on the exact spot where the seams come together, and that combined with the abrading that you described will result in blowouts happening sooner than if the jeans are worn with no sag.

[broneck]

lets just wait and ask bill. he's the workwear champ, and his jeans fit him like a normal person, not all saggy and low and what have you.

[wild style]

So many good points in this thread.

All I know is that I'm getting tired of sewing the seams of my Skull jeans.

[californiakid]

it isn't so much the downsizing that causes the problem as much as where most of us wear our pants. Sagging the pant causes more stress on the seams...Cowboys, construction workers, mechanics from back in the day wore pants up high.

[sam113]

^^^^

Precisely.