Shoes that look better with age...

[edmond]

ok q for greg and the rest of the shoe masters here whats the brass watever thingy in the leather of the sole?

and whats the hole on the heel for? seriously

and how do i take care of horsehide shoes/boots? what kind of oil and etc

do i need to apply regularly ?

can i polish the horsehide like i do with regular calf leather? thanks!

[SLAB]

Those Ultimate Indy shoes are insane; can't wait to see the black version!

[GregNYC]

Leathersoul - Thanks, sent you a PM on the EEEs.

Chicken and Leathersoul - the pressed paper Chicken mentioned is a feature of the regular cotton-lined cork/neoprene soled #405s. The pressed paper is in the heel, right above the layer of the rubber.

Demonito - I must say, I like the bottom of those horsehide boots than the top. Maybe it's the angle, but the last looks a little roundish to me (about "round" on these boots, see below!)

--The hole - do you mean the hold in the surface of the leather over the heel counter - this seems to be something that the Real McCoy's boots have. I would have to guess, that it is in the construction phase, and helps keep something in position.

--The rivets in the waist. I'd need a better profile shot, but I'd say it's cosmetic. Look at the underside of the boots - you've got the Cat's Paw soles with their trademark dots. You've got the circular nail-heads showing in the rubber, and you've got the circular surrounds on the nail-holes in the heel. So many circles and dots. Like an entire dotted, rounded motif. Now imagine the waist without the rivets. It would be an expanse of plain simplicity. Not allowed on a dotted motif otherwise so intense and crowded. The cobbler couldn't resist! Plus the rivets appeal to denim-heads. The only utilitarian function I can think of would be if there were several midsole layers that weren't strongly glued together. Then the rivets could help.

[edmond]

you got a point greg .... i owe you one but the hole in the heel ?

[emmitbrown]

The holes in the heels are for nails. The heel is glued on, and then hand nailed though those holes.

As far as the "crushed paper" you guys are talking about. Most shoe companys use paper heel blocks because they are CHEAP. I'm surprised that Alden uses them. Newer Allen Edmonds do...My shell cordovans had paper heel blocks when I put new heels on them. You would think $500 shoes they could put a leather heel block.

[GregNYC]

^Emmit, I think the holes demonito is talking about are in the leather at the top of the heel counter area. Maybe a photo would help. Or maybe he really is talking about the holes in the rubber heel....

[coleslawyum]

^^What I don't get is the weird seams on top of the boot. Is it functional? I think that its probably based on an some 50's boot, that McCoy loves to copy. The roundish last and the upturned toes looks like its more suitable for actual motorcycle riding.

Are the Ultimate Indy's really coming in black? I have to cop.

[amlai]

^^What I don't get is the weird seams on top of the boot. Is it functional?

It's really hard to tell what is going on there. If it is one single piece of leather and they're just wrinkles, then it is just where they "broke" the leather over a board to stretch it out. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The only times I've seen them do that is on a wholecut boot like the RM Williams boots or on cowboy boots.

Edit: I've also never seen the crease that wide before, so maybe it's something else.

[edmond]

no im talking about the holes on the heel area same as the one o the lonewolf boots

[edmond]

It's really hard to tell what is going on there. If it is one single piece of leather and they're just wrinkles, then it is just where they "broke" the leather over a board to stretch it out. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The only times I've seen them do that is on a wholecut boot like the RM Williams boots or on cowboy boots.

Edit: I've also never seen the crease that wide before, so maybe it's something else.

yeah was wondering about this too

[coleslawyum]

Ed, it's probably the nail hole that affixes the leather upper to the last. Most shoe makers nail it on the bottom. Maybe this particular shoe maker nails it from the back of the heel.

[GregNYC]

Here's a crease on my RM Williams, they break and stretch the leather and this might be the result...

[edmond]

thanks guys! imma post fit pics of the boots in a while

[skalogre]

Here's a crease on my RM Williams, they break and stretch the leather and this might be the result...

I am far from being the most knowledgeable person to explain this but the crease on RM WIlliams is due to the blocking used during construction. Very few bootmakers use such a technique anymore as it is more labour-intensive from what I understand. There was a post I saw over at the other SF with more information, I'll see if I can dig it up.

n this monumental book twice the size of Flusser’s Dressing the Man, Sternke writes (my translation):

Whoever takes a look at the boots on offer will discover two different vamp constructions. The usual boots will have underneath the elastic inserts, a vertical seam, whereas the finer and costlier models come without this additional vamp seam, because the vamp is made of only a single piece of leather. Only a few remaining traditional makers offer such boots - and mostly then only on special enquiry. One of the few which still carry them in their regular catalogue is the Australian firm RM Williams, who usually leave the shaft unlined. The one piece shaft has a clear long ridge running down the front of the boot resulting out of the time consuming process of blocking the shaft, during which the form of the shaft is pre-formed before it is stitched – an additional step which certainly adds to the cost of the boot but permits a decidedly better final form over the upper and assures a better fit. Without the blocking step the leather crumples on walking and the resulting rolls of leather press on the foot (Quoted from page 242)

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=281152&postcount=1

[GregNYC]

I saw something on SF too. I also recall seeing something on RMW's own site about it.

[skalogre]

I saw something on SF too. I also recall seeing something on RMW's own site about it.

RMW's site is not as informative as you'd hope, which is a shame.

[amlai]

I thought it was on SF as well, but after digging around, I believe that the post you guys are actually looking for is on AAAC:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=435036

Argh... I swear there was another similar post, but I can't find it.

[missionamp]

I have both the Indies and the White's SD is size 10.5 D and the fit is great on both of them. The Indies might be a tad longer but for me the difference in fit isn't noticable. Just out of curiousity, how do the Red Wing GTs fit compared to the Indies and SDs?

I have the Red Wing GT's in 11.5, the Indies in 12, and the White's SD in 12.5. While the SD's probably could have been 12's, the other pairs are spot-on.

[Smoleu]

I thought it was on SF as well, but after digging around, I believe that the post you guys are actually looking for is on AAAC:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=435036

Argh... I swear there was another similar post, but I can't find it.

Just to add on.

AFAIK, all RM Williams boots are whole cuts(1 piece of leather) This ridge come from the shaping they do on the boot last. It goes away after a while, or at the very least it becomes less visible.

[skalogre]

Just to add on.

AFAIK, all RM Williams boots are whole cuts(1 piece of leather) This ridge come from the shaping they do on the boot last. It goes away after a while, or at the very least it becomes less visible.

Except for their laced boots and the Stockman jodphur, of course

Actually, on my two yearling leather Crasftsman pairs the ridge is very resilient, but has disappeared completely from the kangaroo leather Stockman, unsurprisingly, as it is very pliable.

Anyway, does anyone think that the boot posted earlier on was blocked or the ridge was from something else?

[Smoleu]

Except for their laced boots and the Stockman jodphur, of course

Actually, on my two yearling leather Crasftsman pairs the ridge is very resilient, but has disappeared completely from the kangaroo leather Stockman, unsurprisingly, as it is very pliable.

Anyway, does anyone think that the boot posted earlier on was blocked or the ridge was from something else?

Ha:D you got me on the lace ups.

[Chicken]

so more info on vibram #705 (kudos to takashi-san).

according to wesco japan, the fish-shaped stitching on the half-soles was invented by bob shoemaker, the president of wesco. because of that, it's called, "bob stitch."

[GregNYC]

Cool factoid!! I thought I had seen this looping stitch on older American boots, but wasn't sure. This also helps explain why B. Nelson hadn't seen the "Bob stitch" (even though they can replicate it). As top-notch as their work is, their custom stuff has been almost all for dress shoes, not workwear-footwear. I once saw someone there talking to Nick about this guy's posts on Style Forum. The customers there bring in lots of nice shoes, but I've only seen one other pair of boots there, and that was another Indy job!

[HumanError]

Damn... I want a pair... but I have too many Indy's and I'm trying not to buy any more shoes...

Amlai, how many pair do you own? See, I'm only on pair #1, and those Ultimate Indy's have "Own Me" written all over them. I'm such a sucker for a good looking commando soled boot or shoe. I'm going through the rationalization process right now- "I already have this boot. Why do I need a second pair?" "Yes, but look at the material of this new boot, and they're a better grade, and leather lined, and don't forget the commando sole, which you love." "Yeah, but..." So, I'll do that dance for a while and then we'll see.

[skalogre]

Amlai, how many pair do you own? See, I'm only on pair #1, and those Ultimate Indy's have "Own Me" written all over them. I'm such a sucker for a good looking commando soled boot or shoe. I'm going through the rationalization process right now- "I already have this boot. Why do I need a second pair?" "Yes, but look at the material of this new boot, and they're a better grade, and leather lined, and don't forget the commando sole, which you love." "Yeah, but..." So, I'll do that dance for a while and then we'll see.

Sorry, I am unfamiliar with that term. Is it some sort of medical jargon?

[LAXbike]

I have a pair of Esquivel Boots (hobo model) (http://esquivelshoes.com/) that have worn in nicely, fit like sneakers. I've worn 6months, thru NYC rain/snow/all the elements. I'll snap a few photos.

[HumanError]

Rationalization is a handy defense mech against my inclination for making rash purchases. Sad to say, it often fails. I believe this mech may be in need of an upgrade.

[LeatherSOUL]

Here's the requested pics:

(On my feet, worn with SDAs)

Leather lined.

Commando Sole.

[amlai]

Amlai, how many pair do you own?

4 pairs:

2 regular 405s, 1 #8 shell, 1 cigar shell

A picture from 4 months ago:

So, you can see why I'm balking a bit as I still have around 3 more Alden boots on order already. But the Ultimate Indy's are calling my name. I think I may wait a bit and hope that there will be future orders placed. I have to admit that the one thing that I don't like about the Ultimate Indy's is actually the commando sole, but I imagine that to be easily fixed later.

Damn... I really like the color of the Ultimate Indy's too... seems to be a nicer shade than the 405s I have.

[HumanError]

^Damn. Hat tip!

I was just thinking, Junior Bush should use Superfuture as an example of how to pump money back into this economy. The guys out here are for real. This shit is no joke.