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Amazing Food Stores in Tokyo


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#31 mizanation

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 05:17 PM



Quote:

l've said it before I'll say it again. Brick Lane serves up honky slop and there's infinitely better curries to be had in other parts of London. Granted - I'm not sure that it was always like this, as I remember eating tasty food down when I lived there years ago, but I think the subsequent gentrification of the area has seen the authenticity and value of the food they serve up dip considerably as it becomes a tourist destination.

These days if you want mind blowing food of that ilk, head to Tooting in South West London or any of the outlying suburbs to the North of the city, all of which have their diamonds.

Back on track. What do people make of Japanese curry? I never really understood what it was made of ...
--- Original message by sybaritical on May 26, 2006 09:59 AM

hmmm. i had some great curry there a several years ago, maybe things have changed? the best curry i ever had (i was taken there by my coworkers, who eat there several times a week) was walking distance from the financial area at liverpool station. so i am assuming it was on brick lane. i will ask for the name and location.

as far as japanese curry, i prefer it in combination with other japanese foods--like katsu-kare, kare-udon, etc.
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#32 DaBestSpoona

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:50 PM



You cant compare Japanese curry with Indian curry, they're too totally different beasts

Japanese curry is made typically made with fruits like bannanas, apples, mangos, meat stock, curry powder. The time to make the curry can take hours to weeks.

Different restaurants have different recipes. I watched alot of japanese food shows and some chefs like to add chocolate, coffee and other wierd things you would never thought to put in curry.
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#33 sybaritical

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:58 PM



Quote: You cant compare Japanese curry with Indian curry, they're too totally different beasts


I know that. I was actually thinking more about the ingredients of Japanese curry than a comparison of taste with other gastronomic equivalents.
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#34 Guest__*

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:27 PM



Quote:

Quote: You cant compare Japanese curry with Indian curry, they're too totally different beasts


I know that. I was actually thinking more about the ingredients of Japanese curry than a comparison of taste with other gastronomic equivalents.
--- Original message by sybaritical on May 26, 2006 12:58 PM

ok, curry came to japan via england during the early meiji era (1860s). my guess is that it represents the type of curry that was popular in england at that time. therefore, the curry is roux based like early british curries. modern british curry is now closer to south asian curry, but the roux thing stuck in japan. that's why it's thicker and creamier (because of the added wheat flour).

like old british curry, japanese tend to add more (and bigger chunks of) carrots, potatos, and onion than "indian" curry.

although some japanese curry have fruits and other interesting ingredients, that is not always the case and is not a defining trait of japanese curry. in fact, there are some curry spots that have very spicy japanese curry. one place has something called, "hell curry" will pay for your meal if you can finish it.

in fact, i think the spices used in japanese and indian curry are pretty similar. the proportions are completely different. i could be wrong but mustard seeds don't seem to be a huge ingredient in japanese curry, althought it's big in indian curry. can someone confirm this?

indian curry usually has a fair amount of ghee, and i think japanese curry tends to use oil instead.
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#35 mizanation

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 08:27 PM






ok, curry came to japan via england during the early meiji era (1860s). my guess is that it represents the type of curry that was popular in england at that time. therefore, the curry is roux based like early british curries. modern british curry is now closer to south asian curry, but the roux thing stuck in japan. that's why it's thicker and creamier (because of the added wheat flour).

like old british curry, japanese tend to add more (and bigger chunks of) carrots, potatos, and onion than "indian" curry.

although some japanese curry have fruits and other interesting ingredients, that is not always the case and is not the defining trait of japanese curry.

in fact, i think the spices used in japanese and indian curry are pretty similar. the proportions are completely different. i could be wrong but mustard seeds don't seem to be a huge ingredient in japanese curry, althought it's big in indian curry. can someone confirm this?

indian curry usually has a fair amount of ghee, and i think japanese curry tends to use oil instead.



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Edited by mizanation on May 26, 2006 at 01:29 PM
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#36 DaBestSpoona

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 03:59 AM



check out this translated manga, it explains alot about what goes into japanese curry

http://www.yanime.com/projects/curry/

It's kind of hard to tell whether or not mustard seeds are used in japanese curry, they're usually visible in indian curries, as japanese curries tend pulverize, grind down all the spices so that the sauce appears uniform.

I found a recipe for curry


Ingredients: (sorry you'll have to do your own conversions)
ROUX
-25g Curry powder each S&B and C&B brands (I'm sure you can play with the curry spices to come up with your own mixture)
-100cc vegetable oil
-100g flour

NON-ROUX
-200g finely chopped onions
-vegetable oil for sauteeing
-1 tablespoon grated ginger
-1 tablespoon finely chopped garlic
-1 apple (quartered)
-1 banana (quartered)
-1 tomato (seeded)
-1 tablespoon mango chutney
-1 tablespoon ketchup
-300cc brown veal stock (look up any French cookbook for this)
-1500 cc beef boullion (by this I believe they mean a standard dark beef stock, not the cube of beef bouillon we're accustomed to thinking about here)
-1 tablespoon ground cumin (preferably freshly roasted cumin seeds, and ground)
-rock salt (I think regular salt is fine)
-black pepper
-500g beef (sirloin) thinly sliced

1. Make the roux.
-Saute the flour with the vegetable oil over a medium heat. (I would prefer to use some butter at this point, though this recipe only calls for oil). Saute and mix well with a wooden spoon until the flour and oil are well incorporated.
-Add the curry powder mix and work into the roux until well incorporated.
-In a 120-130 C oven, roast the roux for about 2 hours. (This seems to be an important step to bring out the flavors of the spices.)
-After roasting the roux, cool it and work the mixture with a flat headed wooden spoon (or somesuch utensil) to smooth it out.
-Set aside

2. Prepare the other ingredients
-Saute the onions in oil until browned and well caramelized. Set aside.
-Saute the ginger, garlic until fragrant. Add the onion mixture.
-Add enough beef stock to the ginger/garlic/onion mixture to make a thin paste
-In a blender, add the apple, banana, tomato, mango chutney, ketchup,
and the ginger/garlic/onion paste, and blend until smooth

3. Blend the roux
-Add the pureed mixture to the roux over medium heat. Keep mixing.
-Add the veal stock and stir into the roux mixture.
-As you keep stirring the curry sauce, add hot beef stock gradually until you get to a suitable thick sauce
-Simmer for at least an hour, making sure to keep mixing it so the bottom doesn't burn
-Add the cumin, mix, and simmer for another hour.

4. Allow the sauce to "mature"
-The instructions states to let the curry sauce rest for at least 4 days (yes, 4 days) to mature. I'm not sure if this means in the fridge or at room temperature. In my experience, it is left at a cool room temperature, and at some point each day, brought to a simmer for a little bit and allowed to cool down to room temperature again. Yes, four days of this. Perhaps this step is a bit obsessive, but some experts say it's crucial.

5. Prepare the beef and finish
-Saute the beef, salt and pepper, and some curry powder to taste
-When the beef is cooked to about medium, add it to the curry sauce.

6. Eat the damn thing. Over hot rice.

OK, so there it is. Japanese curry from scratch made by an overly obsessive Yoshoku chef. Remember, also that making a proper fond de veau (veal stock) can take 3 days to make, not to mention a proper beef stock. I'll probably use some shortcuts, like a store-bought demi glace sauce. So maybe you'll gain an appreciation of what went into making that plate of Japanese curry next time you eat at a fancy Yoshoku restaurant in Japan (I haven't found one in the US, so no need to ponder that here).
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#37 Guest__*

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 09:00 AM



very nice. thanks for the recipe spoona.

you can see the huge differences between indian and japanese curry both in ingredients and preparation.

first of all, it's rare that indian curry has beef in it due to the large population of hindus (there are indians, like some moderate sikhs, who eat beef). of course, curries from areas such as pakistan and bangladesh include beef.

btw, spoona, indian curry also grinds down the mustard seeds.

one big difference i see is the emphasis on curry powder and flour. indian curry doesn't rely on "curry powder" per se. instead, there are blends of spices such as garam masala which are further mixed with coriander powder and tumeric and other spices. my south indian friends are often amused that japanese curry uses curry powder exclusively.

also, indian curry also has some element of sourness, usually obtained from tamarind, lime juice, mango powder, kokum or yogurt. i've never seen a japanese curry with yogurt or raita.

indian curry, is never "matured" but eaten after preparation.

you can tell that japanese curry really is old-school british curry because it is classified as "yoshoku" (japanese-style western food).

i have not found a fancy yoshoku restaurant in new york yet, although i've been to them in seattle.
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#38 mizanation

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 09:00 AM



very nice. thanks for the recipe spoona.

you can see the huge differences between indian and japanese curry both in ingredients and preparation.

first of all, it's rare that indian curry has beef in it due to the large population of hindus (there are indians, like some moderate sikhs, who eat beef). of course, curries from areas such as pakistan and bangladesh include beef.

btw, spoona, indian curry also grinds down the mustard seeds.

one big difference i see is the emphasis on curry powder and flour. indian curry doesn't rely on "curry powder" per se. instead, there are blends of spices such as garam masala which are further mixed with coriander powder and tumeric and other spices. my south indian friends are often amused that japanese curry uses curry powder exclusively.

also, indian curry also has some element of sourness, usually obtained from tamarind, lime juice, mango powder, kokum or yogurt. i've never seen a japanese curry with yogurt or raita.

indian curry, is never "matured" but eaten after preparation.

you can tell that japanese curry really is old-school british curry because it is classified as "yoshoku" (japanese-style western food).

i have not found a fancy yoshoku restaurant in new york yet, although i've been to them in seattle.
http://mizanation.blogspot.com
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#39 sybaritical

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 01:30 PM



Superb.

I asked cos I have a very healthy interest in good food and nutrition and when I lived in Japan I was a bit disappointed to find everyone so reliant on instant supermarket curries.
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#40 DaBestSpoona

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 05:47 AM



theres a couple of yoshoku places in nyc

Hiroko's Place
Chiyono
Tsukushi

I haven't been to these yet though, but I doubt they're like the ones in japan where the curry or demiglace takes like weeks to prepare.
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#41 dismalfuture

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:09 PM



^ This is interesting, as I was just thinking recently about what it'd be like to eat Yoshoku in America... Yoshoku is weird because I'd bet even the truest-blue American could down and enjoy almost everything at a Yoshoku joint, but reading the menu might scare them off, not to mention that the concept is lost entirely. I probably have to say that Omurice+demiglace is one of my top 5 favorite things to eat, though.

The Kissaten is another experience closely related to the Yoshokuya that people visiting Japan probably wouldn't think of, but I really dig.


Best steak I've ever had in Tokyo was at a place called 'Imahan'... The one I went to was in the Shinjuku Takashimaya Times Square building, 10th (?) floor I think. Somewhere up there on the top. Well-marbled Wagyu from 3-year old beer-fed virgin heifers, choice. Cooked Japanese-style, not your open-flame hickory BBQ you'd get in the US. I also had sukiyaki there another time, nice meal. Imahan has a bunch of locations as they are fairly old.

I think everyone could enjoy Maisen off Omotesando too, the katsu restaurant that operates in a converted bathhouse. I think they sell Maisen dontkatsu sandwiches in random places around too.

The Commes Ca cake factory wasn't entirely amazing to me, but I guess to someone whose never seen the Japanese do cake before, it'd knock their socks off. I enjoy the other Commes Ca cafes though, where you can get some lunch-y foods plus the cakes.

My favorite lunch cafe in Tokyo closed down recently. :( It was located off Omotesando in the alley behind Paul Stuart and they had this simple but amazing avocado+grapefruit green salad. I miss it dearly.



Lately I find myself buying issues of Tokyo Walker to look at all the pictures of food. If I add in the time I look at superfuture and all the subsequent thinking about clothes this site has made me do, I think I am becoming a Japanese woman. God help me.
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#42 Ahlvahroe

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:26 AM

For California/West Coast people, you are in luck. For SF/Bay Area - Haru Ramen in San Jose is the bomb.


months later, but I finally went with my brother and his best friend. very good, it was almost identical in taste to the ones i tried while in japan, thanks for the tip.
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#43 poly800rock

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:15 AM

is it wrong to say that the rice balls at the convience stores are really good in tokyo too?
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#44 Black Bettie

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 11:04 AM

I saw the band on Friday night here in Sydney.Those men all know how to wear black really well (sadly something Australian men fail at), but Toru is particularly tasty
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#45 isdenn

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 12:46 PM

damn this thread makes me wish i could go back to tokyo for a week just to eat...japanese food in america, especially sushi, pretty much sucks.
also the rice balls in the convenience stores are an adventure. the first time i bought one it was just plain rice wrapped in seaweed, and every time i tried to buy a plain one again, it ended up being filled with things like tuna and mayo, or a quail egg, or other unexpected things.
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#46 xcoldricex

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:17 PM

yummmm.

i want some okonomiyaki.
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#47 Chicken

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:24 PM

is it wrong to say that the rice balls at the convience stores are really good in tokyo too?

no. and i miss them sometimes. tsuna-mayo is one of my faves.
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#48 poly800rock

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:54 PM

no. and i miss them sometimes. tsuna-mayo is one of my faves.



i don't ever know what anything is in tokyo, all of it is the suprise bag....
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#49 Chicken

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:46 PM

tsuna-mayo. tuna with mayo. in other words, tuna salad rice balls.

surprisingly goooooood.
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#50 samduhspam

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 03:48 PM

bump from the dead. Does anyone know of this Japanese French style cook book? The title has slipped my mind..
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