Drying to create soft denim

[cdgplus]

Would using a drying machine formerly-raw denim turn the denim soft like factory-prewashed denim? Would it continue to crease deeply? Would it still fade at all past where it was already at?

How much would it shrink a pair of sanfordized/unsanfordized jeans in the waist and length? Would it then stretch back out or not?

Thanks, I haven't seen any real discussion on this subject since no one wants to wreck their jeans to experiment. I'm just curious.

[Osmosis Jones]

first. search

second. too broad of a question as all denim is different, you could have washed in hot water/cold water, mineral content of water?, dryer heat, etc

[cdgplus]

Typical washing/drying machine on typical raw denims. Let's say APCs. Warm wash, hot dry. Results?

Btw search = nothing

[ah_long]

Denim is made out of cotton and they are very soft in nature. Most of the time, when denim is hard, it's because of the starch that's being left in the material during the manufacturing process.

Back to your question, drying the denim would not really make the denim 'soft'. It could be an illusion because the denim is being folded and thrown around in the dryer to break the bonds between starch particles; essentially, nothing that caused the denim to be hard is removed.

On the other hand, if the denim is being dried extensively, it could be very 'hard' and abrasive as all the moisture is baked out. Hence why the denim tends to be softer over extended periods of wear when it absorbs the moisture from your skin.

[>++fishb0neR]

mine combust every time i use machines

so i hand wash (ALWAYS indoors)

then strap them to my car (SOMETIMES outdoors)

then drive really really really really fast

to maintain crispiness

and creasification.

I recommend driving outdoors, as it's safer.

[coleslawyum]

Here's my method:

Raw denim (shrink to fit)

- Wash in hot water with Tide and Downy in washing machine.

- Dry in dryer on high for 40 minutes.

Results:

- all shrinkage out of the way and silky soft

Raw denim (sanforized)

- Wash in hot water with Tide and Downy in washing machine.

- Dry in dryer on high for 40 minutes.

Results:

- all shrinkage out of the way and silky soft

I hope this helps.

EDIT: Oh I forgot, while you are waiting for the dryer to finish, it helps by reading a self-improvement book. It seems to make the denim even softer when finished.

[salaami]

damn, i was just about to mention on the FC thread how i've surely noticed how much softer my jeans feel after a hot machine dry. a lot of times if i want to wash and wear the jean soon after i fold the jeans over and roll them up like a dutch, then fold them over again into a little bundle, and then squeeze all the excess water out, then i turn them inside out( to stop some of the blueing of the inside of the machine) and i toss em in on high heat by themselves for like 90 minutes. when i get them out they are shrunk as fuck(except for the leather patch) and really silky soft. i mean like the hand of the denim is mad luxe , and the overall stiffness is gone( as opposed to if i let them just hand dry in the sun on a hot day). i've washed 36 times(and counting) so starch is not the issue. the dryer really makes them significantly softer(and zimbabwe cotton is already soft, so just imagine)...and they still retain the original creases after all this time and washes. for some reason i still haven't gotten the funny creases a lot of dudes get from the dryer.

[ah_long]

interesting...

it could be the difference in heat levels and the design of the dryer??

I would assume the softness of the denim comes from the constant movement the denim goes thru in the dryer?? just like how you wear them for a few days and they become soft?

[duck sauce]

it won't fade at all after you put it in the dryer because the heat and pressure of the dryer create a layer on the denim that is impervious to abrasion and physical assualts of all sorts that not even a diamond coated steak knife will cut through.

yes there will still be fading after the dryer

[Orion]

so you saying you want something silky smooth?

[ah_long]

personally, I don't put my denim in the dryer because I am afraid that the shrinkage would be out of control and so far none of my denim in my regular rotation needs extra shrinkage..

fading wise.. don't worry so much about it, it will fade as long as you wear them..

[ah_long]

so you saying you want something silky smooth?

LOL

10char

[salaami]

personally, I don't put my denim in the dryer because I am afraid that the shrinkage would be out of control and so far none of my denim in my regular rotation needs extra shrinkage..

fading wise.. don't worry so much about it, it will fade as long as you wear them..

i feel ya, the 1st time i put them in the dryer on hot for 90 min they shrank CRAZILY. they were tight as fuck. but then i rubbed my thigh and was like''daaaaamn''. i told my lil sis to rub the same spot, and she was like''my jeans aren't that soft. after much hot dryer experience i can honestly say that i wouldn't recommend the dryer only if you are scared of shrink. i handwashed(with soap)/hot dried my WH700 3 times before i rocked them and the fit was dramatically slimmer/softer than when raw. i will only hot dry them in the future to get that shrink back

[cdgplus]

Good info. I've worn my New Standards for almost a year now with no wash (smell is fine and I'm in it for the SiCkEsT of sick fades) and despite this they are still not nearly as comfortable as my Acnes or even my MIJ Diors. For me there is a small nagging impulse to want to turn my APCs into 'regular comfy jeans' so I was wondering if a dryer would do that. I now am sure that they'd shrink irreversibly though (considering they are a whole five inches larger than tagged, yes five) so I won't go there. But still I'll probably conduct some experiments when they're ready to be scrapped for a new pair of Flatheads or something =) Again, thanks for the long replies, and screw you to the -rep haters.

[salaami]

i don't know if the jean will shrink irreversably, since they are sanforized, so they will only shrink but so small. the waist and tag are so far off cause you went a year with no wash. after like 300+ wears with out a wash, if you do wash them the jeans will only thank you. your SiCk fade wont be ruined. they will get softer cause you are finally washing all that glue and starch out(whatever's left of it)

[bernielike]

I always wash hot no soap and dry inside out to get shrinkage out of the way on unsanforized jeans. Then I never dry them again, and wash only every now and then.

I would not dry sanforized denim often.

Drying weakens the fibers of cotton over time. But I'd say no big deal if you do it a few times. It definitely will soften the denim more than washing with no machine dry.

Do what you want they're just jeans. You wore them for a year they're not going to be ruined with one dry. They will shrink but will stretch back out, esp. APC's.

[ah_long]

waist and thighs would stretch out.. but I highly doubt the inseam would..

if you are one of those who did an initial hot soak and hang dry and then hem to a length that's just right, I would avoid the dryer..

I would also avoid the dryer if you are doing your first soak/wash after a full year of filthy wear.. sanforized or not they will shrink a bit.. and fadings will shift..

I know a few denime stores in Tokyo has washers and dryers on site.. in fact, when I was at the denime store, they have these print out for customers to tell them wash them and throw them in the dryer before first wear to get all the shrinkage out..

all in all.. if u started off with the dryer, by all means continue to go with it.. if you didn't use the dryer for a long period of time, don't start

[salaami]

tell us more about the denime store!

[ah_long]

I went to the store @ Daikayama Hills.. in store, they have all sewing equipment and other clothings as well.. it's nothing to really brag about..

I know for a fact that their Tokyo stores have washing machines and dryers that you can shrink the denim and have them hem it for u..

I did buy a pencil case made out of selvage denim leftovers from hemming for 400 yen.. it has a selvage coin pocket and red tab on it.. lol... it's some kind of program from them to help save the environment.. they also have coasters and coin pouches as well

when I was there, they have a huge sale on some of their denim selection.. some were marked down over 50%, none of them fit me though.. .. i'll try to see if I did take a picture of the store..

[annacobra]

the cooler the air, the more soft the denim after drying.

If that is not enough, throw in some golf balls.

Salaami, I guess by Zimbabwe denim you are talking about denim made with cotton from Zimbabwe, as advertised by PRPS. Possibly some of their denim is soft, but imo this has nothing to do with the country of origin of the cotton, but rather with the spinning, yarn dyeing, weaving and mill finishing.

[chubby]

wrong.

actually Zimbabwean cotton, much like sea-island cotton, or Pima cotton, has a much longer fiber, or "extra-long staple" which lends it a softer hand. In contrast, cotton varieties with shorter fibers, such as Texas cotton, have a rougher hand, and are generally used in jeans with a rougher slubbier texture.

[salaami]

i don't know prps denim first hand(a shame, since the owner of prps is black and from VA), but in general the longer the staple length of the cotton, the softer the denim can potentially be. but trust me well friend, organic,hand-picked, single cropped zimbabwe cotton has superb softness. I KNOW fullcount denim, and i know it's spun loosely for added softness. the maker of FC denim prizes the softness and comfort of his denim above all else. i've never seen denim made from sea-island cotton, but perhaps due to it's super long staple length maybe it's even softer still...

[akuma no uta]

Hate it When my jeans get soft. Want them to stay stiffff as fuck crunchy and painful, so much more fun

[ah_long]

wait.. when we are talking about softness.. are we referring to the stiff/soft aspect of it or the rough/smooth texture of it?

I think Chubby is trying to describe the texture of the denim while we are talking about the stiffness.. I know even slubby denim like Samurai could get really soft..

[salaami]

sammy denim gets softer, but never really luxe soft,except around the holes/frays:D. for some reason i like collecting the sky-blue lint that the dryer collects. the dryer will always be a once in a while thing for me.

[annacobra]

Salaami, most cotton grown in Zimbabwe is of the Albar variety, wich is a good quality medium staple cotton. Long staple cotton is also grown in Zimbabwe, but in lesser quantity.

Chubby, the long staple (LS) cotton grown in Zimbabwe is shorter than Sea Island cotton, which is extra long staple (ELS).

Btw,the original Sea Island variety does not exist anymore, the last seeds were used up in the 1930's, when growers unsucessfully tried to revive this variety. The Sea Island cotton as grown today, is a descendent of much lesser quality.

Back to Zimbabwe, I agree that their cotton is of very good quality, but did you know for example that staple length of organic cotton is shorter than the same variety grown with fertilizers?

On the other hand, the elimination of defoliation in organic growing has a favourable impact on quality in the form of better uniformity, particulary for micronaire, maturity, staple length and fiber strength.

For above reasons, I think that the marketing of Zimbabwe cotton by some brands simplyfies too much . What about other African countries that grow organic LS cotton? What about GM cotton grown in Zimbabwe?

Further I would like to make the point, that from cotton to finished garment, there are many processes involved at each stage of growing, harvesting, ginning, spinning, dyeing, weaving and textile finishing at the mill. At each stage there are variables that can effect softness.

Ah Long, good point about the different kind of softness, and possible confusion.

[chubby]

damn, annacobra dropping some knowledge.

[Paul T]

Traditionally, longer staple cotton is prized for being more hardy than short staple; that's why Pima cotton is prized as being harder-wearing for bed linen.

Do a google search here and there's some great informaiton by ringring on Sea Island cotton, which was a highly-prized variety brought to the US, and then ravaged by the Boll Weevil. It was probably used for the very first jeans. There's a terrific book on it by Richard Porcher & Sarah Fick. (which, I'm told, also includes a photo of an old ginning roller which was covered in, of all things, walrus hide)/

As for drying to create soft denim, it doubtless does so, but according to denim manufacturers like Cone, it also hastens the loss of indigo.

[lmaozedong]

Hate it When my jeans get soft. Want them to stay stiffff as fuck crunchy and painful, so much more fun

hahah i bought my apcs JUST to wash em and dry em and make them my comfy soft jeans, but now that ive worn them for a few months i cant bear to have them lose that crunchiness.....

[salaami]

so paul, what you're saying is that from what you have observed hot machine-drying makes the cotton(and subsequently the denim itself) softer as opposed to line-drying? is it the 'baking' aspect of the denim being blasted by hot air? while we're on the topic of different cotton types, what advantages does single-cropped cotton have to double-cropped?.