Raf by Raf simons, Pleasure Principle & Imitation of Christ tee's & hoodies

[jhaime]

just wondered what people thought of these lines...whether they like them, would buy them & whether they would consider buying them online...

you can see the pleasure principle & imitation of christ tee's & hoodies/jackets on sevens website, under the designers section.. http://www.sevennewyork.com/main.html

& raf by raf simons can be found here... http://www.luisaviaroma.com/ecnew/Collections/VisuProd.aspx?Outlet=False&IsOnDesigner=True&CodStagione=43I&CodStilista=A59&CodLinea=02

please leave your feedback, we're considering carrying them for fall 06/07 in store and on the site...any thoughts would be most appreciated...

Time spent wishing...is time wasted

[LA Guy]

I've never been a huge fan of Pleasure Principle, and while the Imitation of Christ stuff for women is great, well, I'm a guy. Raf Simon's diffusion line is pretty decent though - more wearable then his mainline, imo. I'm not sure I'd buy Raf though, especially if the collections have the same political themes his mainline collections often do. The prices are still pretty steep though, and I worry that his taking on the Jil Sander line in addition to doing his own thing maybe stretching him thin. Already, lots of critics were not wowed by his inaugural JS line.

[jhaime]

Yea, i agree with you on the pleasure principle gear, i'm not sure what direction they are trying to go in, i'm not sure they even know. The mens ready to where from IOC (Imitation of Christ) seems to have followed the same pattern for the last 2 seasons, with that scratch detailing across the t-shirts and hoodies...there doesn't seem to be a great deal of substance behind what Tara & matt are doing there. Will be interesting to see how it develops.

I agree with you on Raf with Jill, however his diffusion line will provide the security of being able to really go wild with his mainline. I think we saw that with his latest fall 06/07 collection showed in Paris late january. Was probably his best collection to date...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by his political stance? are you referring to his youth cultural references?

Time spent wishing...is time wasted

[dnnsmanace]

I saw this one in blue at Barney's yesterday, fucking dope. The sleeveless hoodies are sweet also.

[LA Guy]

Quote:

Yea, i agree with you on the pleasure principle gear, i'm not sure what direction they are trying to go in, i'm not sure they even know. The mens ready to where from IOC (Imitation of Christ) seems to have followed the same pattern for the last 2 seasons, with that scratch detailing across the t-shirts and hoodies...there doesn't seem to be a great deal of substance behind what Tara & matt are doing there. Will be interesting to see how it develops.

I agree with you on Raf with Jill, however his diffusion line will provide the security of being able to really go wild with his mainline. I think we saw that with his latest fall 06/07 collection showed in Paris late january. Was probably his best collection to date...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by his political stance? are you referring to his youth cultural references?

--- Original message by jhaime on Feb 19, 2006 04:58 PM

Yeah, I was referring to his youth cultural references. I find them really distracting, which is a shame given that he is one of the better deconstructionists of his time, (comparable even to Margiela, imo.) The whole revolutionary protester theme of F/W 2001 (2002?), for example, I found really a little contrived.

Now, wouldn't it be cool if Prada could persude Margiela to do a Jil Sander collection?

Edited by LA Guy on Feb 19, 2006 at 06:05 PM

[jhaime]

It looks as though he's using this diffusion line to reach a larger market, mainly the young folk, who love their hoodies and sweats. It's a good thing, as the mainline can only benefit from it...

regarding the jil sander line, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. It's all very bureaucratic when it comes to the Prada & gucci groups.

Time spent wishing...is time wasted

[LA Guy]

Well, his mainline had hoodies and sweats too, to be fair. I mean, how do you do youth references without them. Oh yeah, a shirt with lots and lots of safety pins

BTW, what store are you buying for? Just wondering, and wondering what other lines you carry (I'm hoping lots of independents).

What do you think of Oliver Helden's stuff?

[The Omar Administration]

That site has some of the weirdest fucking necks ever. I can't even pay attention to the clothes.

[LA Guy]

Quote:

That site has some of the weirdest fucking necks ever. I can't even pay attention to the clothes.

--- Original message by The Omar Administration on Feb 19, 2006 06:29 PM

Just noticed that. Luisa is an amazing store though...

[jhaime]

necks???

It's interesting you bring Oliver Helden up...

His stuff caught my eye on Hint...interesting how he's gone from Fashion photographer to designer...i was thinking of buying a piece off there just to see what it's like...

I can't disclose what store, haha...as much as i'd love too...

bit worried about the lines i mentioned since nobody apart from yourself has made a comment...

We're based in the UK, carry mainly underground london designers...

menswear includes labels like, Whyred, Christopher Ryan, by Christopher Brogden & Ryan Hackett, Markus Huemer : Unit, Laura Lees label, one of some by Petar Petrov, Stephan Schneider, Siv Stoldal, Lincoln Mayne...looking at And I by Quoc Pham & marc Bodd, aswell lotta skeletrix..

womenswear includes, Madeleine press, Bi La Bi by Nelie turner, Mine by Katherine Pont, Aprill 77, Olaic by Nikki Taylor, amungst others, I'm looking at Thomas Wylde by Paula Thomas & Herald by Robert geller (who used to design at cloak) also for womenswear...

I'm dissapointed with what I saw by PPQ (pretty personal question) at london last week, we may have to drop them...

Time spent wishing...is time wasted

[Guest]

That is an interesting mix of designers you've got there. Oliver actually made me a custom on the long sleeve tee from Hint (I wanted something different than jersey, and he made me one in a baby rib - same weight, but baby rib has more "body" for obvious reasons). He pays good attention to detail. I would definitely recommend his stuff for your store. It fits the general tone of the designers you mention, at a more than reasonable pricepoint.

Again, no disrespect meant to the members of the board, but I doubt that a lot of the brands on the radar of a lot of the posters, excepting maybe Whyred for the Scandanavians, maybe Siv Stoldal for Brits, maybe Stephan Schneider. These are pretty underground designers, with small shows in London fashion week, and don't have huge distribution and are usually critics darlings (see Imitation of Christ) but aren't huge commercially.

If you are at all interested in lesser known American designers, I would definitely try Oliver Helden. Groupe 6sur20, especially the stuff by Homunculus Trodolyte (essentially the house label) is also something to check out, and I would love to get UK distribution for Jay Allen, who has some very innovative tees and great technique (PM me if you are interested in the last - a whole new set of designs is in the works). Cloak is no longer "underground" in any shape or form (interesting story- they started out very tailored, nearly "geek chic" in either 1999 or 2000, went to their much more commercially successful "Depressed East Villager" look by 2003, and now have a store where they sort of do the former while keeping a large amount of the successful latter in stock, but I digress), but they have consistently good collections that would probably do well in your store given the info about what you stock. Oh, and Brazilian designer Alexandre Herchcovitch might not be a bad bet either. His winter seasons are stronger than his summer, imo.

[evisu 2000]

Quote:

Quote:

Yea, i agree with you on the pleasure principle gear, i'm not sure what direction they are trying to go in, i'm not sure they even know. The mens ready to where from IOC (Imitation of Christ) seems to have followed the same pattern for the last 2 seasons, with that scratch detailing across the t-shirts and hoodies...there doesn't seem to be a great deal of substance behind what Tara & matt are doing there. Will be interesting to see how it develops.

I agree with you on Raf with Jill, however his diffusion line will provide the security of being able to really go wild with his mainline. I think we saw that with his latest fall 06/07 collection showed in Paris late january. Was probably his best collection to date...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by his political stance? are you referring to his youth cultural references?

--- Original message by jhaime on Feb 19, 2006 04:58 PM

Yeah, I was referring to his youth cultural references. I find them really distracting, which is a shame given that he is one of the better deconstructionists of his time, (comparable even to Margiela, imo.) The whole revolutionary protester theme of F/W 2001 (2002?), for example, I found really a little contrived.

Now, wouldn't it be cool if Prada could persude Margiela to do a Jil Sander collection?

Edited by LA Guy on Feb 19, 2006 at 06:05 PM

--- Original message by LA Guy on Feb 19, 2006 06:03 PM

it would be cool for prada... not so cool for anyone else.

[LA Guy]

I wouldn't worry too much. I doubt a lot of the designers mentioned ring a bell with many of the posters here, excepting maybe Whyred for the Scandanavians, Christopher Ryan and Siv Stoldal for Brits who shop at Browns, and maybe Stephan Schneider.

I would definitely look at the Oliver Helden stuff. He pays great attention to detail, has great credentials in the industry, and most importantly, would probably do well in your store at the mid pricepoint range you seem to be looking for stuff for. If you are looking for lesser know American designers, I would also suggest Groupe 16sur20, especially the stuff by Trogolyte Homunculus (essentially the house brand), and maybe Obedient Sons, although it is not so much under the radar anymore. Cloak, with its "Depressed East Villager" style, might be a good pick as well. Again, since about 2003, it hasn't really been "under the radar". And I am always looking for stockists for Jay Allen - a lot of new designs are in the works. PM me if you are interested in the last. Oh, and Brazilian designer Alexandre Herchovitch does stuff you might be interested in too. His winter collections are more to my liking that his S/S.

[Fuuma]

Quote:

necks???

It's interesting you bring Oliver Helden up...

His stuff caught my eye on Hint...interesting how he's gone from Fashion photographer to designer...i was thinking of buying a piece off there just to see what it's like...

I can't disclose what store, haha...as much as i'd love too...

bit worried about the lines i mentioned since nobody apart from yourself has made a comment...

We're based in the UK, carry mainly underground london designers...

menswear includes labels like, Whyred, Christopher Ryan, by Christopher Brogden & Ryan Hackett, Markus Huemer : Unit, Laura Lees label, one of some by Petar Petrov, Stephan Schneider, Siv Stoldal, Lincoln Mayne...looking at And I by Quoc Pham & marc Bodd, aswell lotta skeletrix..

womenswear includes, Madeleine press, Bi La Bi by Nelie turner, Mine by Katherine Pont, Aprill 77, Olaic by Nikki Taylor, amungst others, I'm looking at Thomas Wylde by Paula Thomas & Herald by Robert geller (who used to design at cloak) also for womenswear...

I'm dissapointed with what I saw by PPQ (pretty personal question) at london last week, we may have to drop them...

--- Original message by jhaime on Feb 20, 2006 06:01 PM

Robert Geller's stuff is yummy, would love to meet a girl who wears that.

As for IOC was never a fan of the women's line, so I don't think I've ever checked out the men's. Your other labels are probably better known by your brit clientele and at a lower pricepoint so wouldn't bringing that line be risky?. BTW anyone remembers Imitation of Imitation of Christ (IOIOC)?

Raf stuff looks nice and is pretty well known so it might be a crowd pleaser, btw his new collection (main line) is a lot stronger than his work at Jil Sander and the youth references are gone, the knit would probably sell pretty well as a sort of "prestige" line for your shop.

[jhaime]

Fuuma the RTW IOC mens line is up on sevens website if you want to steal a peak.

I'm very impressed with your knowledge LA Guy, who is this Jay Allen you speak of that i've never come across before? Any leads there?

I went on the Oliver Helden site a month or so back, there wasn't any collections available to view, so I've kind of just left it for now. As i've only seen the two items they were selling on Hintmag, is he with an Agency or some form of professional representation do you know?

I've come across Groupe 16sur20 & Trogolyte Homunculus before, I think it was on Refinery29, checked out the site, didn't take it any further. I might have to take a closer look...Obedient Sons is one i've been watching for quite a while now, they only problem I have with them is their lack of consistency. One season might look very strong and very sellable, the next season you're lucky if you can find one piece that you can say, yeah, that's going to be a big seller.

What's your take on ICR Vs Deathkillers, they seemed to struggle to sell it at Browns, although I hear it's a big thing in the States, no?

Time spent wishing...is time wasted

[LA Guy]

Jay Allen is a new designer I'm repping - just starting out but with good potential. Just got picked up by Uncle Otis in Canada and I just learned, by Fred Segal Man in LA, and now at least one major company in Japan, so a good start. PM me and we can talk.

I agree with you about Obedient Sons. They are not great at fulfillment either, which is a problem. ICR vs. Dethkillers... last I heard, they were going under. They were, imo, a flash in the pan, like Von Dutch. An interesting gimmick, but lack of any real vision killed it. Plus, I heard that the people putting it together broke up, so there it is (that is just fashion gossip though, and I have no firsthand knowledge of it). Put it this way, Check out www.scoopnyc.com. The ICR stuff has been languishing on the clearance racks for a while now.

The Groupe 16sur230 stuff is getting stronger by the season, imo. I would definitely check it out.

As for Oliver Helden, I'm not sure who represents him, but again, PM me. His collections were on his site a while ago, but appear to have been taken down. Not sure why, but he is a small operation, and it is probably possible to get in touch with him directly and see some of his stuff. I know that he showed in NYC in the Fall, for sure.