supermeatheads

[Phyziks]

Yeah. Most people already have well defined abs, but the stomach fat/bloating covers them. Men tend to store more fat on their lower back and lower stomach so it's typically harder to see those abs unless you're at a relatively low BF or have very well built ab muscles. This leads a lot of people to believe that their problem is weaker lower abs, and that's exactly why you see a lot of infomercials selling products that "target the lower abs". Spot reducing is impossible, and the only way to get all of your abs showing is lower BF%. Dieting in this case would solve that, but if you have never trained your abs properly with resistance they may still look kind of bad. So I'd say 90% of abs are made in the kitchen, 10% in the gym. As far as the left and right side go, I have no idea. Mine seem to look pretty symmetrical in size...?

[CUTUP]

Truth ^ And well said

The big thing about abs as well is that no one really does a great job of mixing up their ab excersies.

Many people ( myself years ago as well) used to stick with a single machine or 2 they liked and that was it.

Many of those machines are far too generic, as parts of your abs like your obliques, and lower abdominals are harder to hit, they should be hit with specialized excersises

Also I find people dont use enough weight to make thier abs "pop". I like to use a mixture of heavy weight with lower reps ( around 10 or so) followed by high reps at a lower weight with focus on muscle contraction

I find contraction and focus plays a HUGE part in ab development. Holding the motion until the burn is too unbearable will make your abs rock solid

[RSR]

Sonic is 143? Wow. I would have guessed at least 150-160.

[IM SOLE CRAZY]

You don't have to work your abs out that much....as stated above, most men have abs but its hidden under the bloat.

[TPR950H]

what do you guys consider low BF%? i remember reading somewhere that around 9% is where abs start coming through? and what are you guys doing to measure BF%? calipers? scale that has a reading? water displacement?

[kunk75]

my abs are totally off from one side to another, at least a half inch higher on the left.

[kunk75]

will see them anywhere from 10-12% but ymmv. some people only have 4 visible and the lower part of the abdominal wall is very difficult to see in many people.

what do you guys consider low BF%? i remember reading somewhere that around 9% is where abs start coming through? and what are you guys doing to measure BF%? calipers? scale that has a reading? water displacement?

[sonicvoodoo]

The key in working abs is the contraction; after all they are just like any other muscles. Keeping constant tension on the muscles is vital. I see too many people going all the way down or all the way up and therefore relaxing the strain on the muscle. Performing various exercises, hitting different angles, immediately one right after the other is optimal.

and I beg to differ on the %

65% genetics,25% kitchen. 10% gym.

[Mr Calvin Oscar]

i actually kinda agree with that. maybe even more of it is genetics..

[iGIT]

my abs are totally off from one side to another, at least a half inch higher on the left.

How does this actually happen because my abs are like this too, except my right side is a bit higher.

[Phyziks]

True enough with the genetics, but anyone can still build the muscle and then cut the fat for their abs to show. It might require a lot more discipline and time, but besides having a chronic condition of some sort, almost anyone can achieve visible abs.

[sonicvoodoo]

The realization of just how important a role genetics play in bodybuilding/shaping is extremely frustrating but one that must be made early in one's journey into metamorphosis.

You really have to come to grips with your genetic limitations and learn to accept that you can only be as good as you can be.

If you don't you are doomed to disappointment and eventually total failure,

[CUTUP]

The realization of just how important a role genetics play in bodybuilding/shaping is extremely frustrating but one that must be made early in one's journey into metamorphosis.

You really have to come to grips with your genetic limitations and learn to accept that you can only be as good as you can be.

If you don't you are doomed to disappointment and eventually total failure,

And that's where sauce and GH comes in ....

Seriously though, its a valid point. I know guys who dont have the frame to get were they are trying to get to, and they always get let down in the end. Some of htem just give up or start slacking off

Shoot for your ultimate goal, but be realistic is sound advice

[Phyziks]

Yeah, I was lucky enough to be born as an ecto-mesomorph. I had a pretty solid frame to start with and burning fat comes fairly easy to me, or so it seems.

In any case, I don't think anyone here is trying to become a body builder. Just having a decent amount of muscle and being healthy and fit is probably more important, and that's generally what I'm aiming towards. Regardless of genetics, it's all about building muscle and losing fat. Some people have an easy time building muscle without putting on fat, some people have a hard time building muscle period. Some people have a hard time losing fat without losing muscle, and some people have a hard time losing fat at all. Genetics basically dictates how efficiently one can build muscle and lose fat, but if someone is dedicated and strict enough they can achieve the same results over a longer period of time.

[sonicvoodoo]

. Genetics basically dictates how efficiently one can build muscle and lose fat, but if someone is dedicated and strict enough they can achieve the same results over a longer period of time.

This simply is not true and is exactly the kind of thinking I wanted to discourage.

Bodies are predisposed for everything.

Playing 15 hours of guitar a day won't make you Hendrix

Taking 1000 jumpshots a day won't make you Jordan..altho Jordan's shot wasn't the best part of his game....but you catch my drift

Singing in your shower won't make you Plant.

Sketching non stop won't make you Picasso

These people were genetic freaks. They were born with something special. Yeah, they worked hard and practiced but their gifts were innate.

If you train very hard and diet extremely cleanly, you can be the best you can be, but you will not get the same results as those that are genetically blessed.

The sooner you accept this, the better off you'll be.

[toufu]

how depressing....

[NatseOklim]

Many academics would disagree that "talent" is genetic, Malcolm Gladwell is a recent one with his book "Outliers".

[kunk75]

^yah, saw the whole musicians and their 10,000 hours of practice thing. gladwell writes well and is a good read but his theories have little basis in fact or science.

i have a friend who is a pro bodybuilder and for 3-4 years we trained the same, took the same drugs and he is still a pro whereas even at my biggest, i was nowhere near close. he was locked up for 3 years at one point, no roids, prison food, and came out at 220, down from his high of 290, yet still looked amazing. genetics play a larger role than anyone would want to admit.

[sonicvoodoo]

^ my point zactly

you can't let it get you down tho. you need to accept and move on..otherwise you're defeated before you start

[jayrock]

i've always thought the split was more even, like 1/3 genetics, 1/3 the gym, and 1/3 the kitchen. i agree with sonic though, many people are genetically limited and may never be able to attain their "perfect" goal. you take what you can get

my youngest brother, a junior in high school, is 6'6" 280lbs. he obviously got the good genes. whereas i have a freak metabolism and it's damn near impossible for me to gain weight... i need to keep working on the diet to achieve my goals

[NatseOklim]

I agree more so about the genetics side of it for your body but IMO Picasso's upbringing and education played a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger role than genetics.

[Phyziks]

I know genetics play a huge role if you're trying to become the best of the best, but for most of us here that isn't the goal. Having a 6-pack is not something that can only be achieved by the genetically gifted; being 250+ pounds @ 5% body fat is (usually a mix of genetics + hard training in the gym + diet + drugs).

If this was a body building forum I would understand letting people know that unless they are genetically blessed, they will never achieve the same results as the pros, but for most people in this thread that is not their goal. Your point is still valid and I respect it, but if you're trying to tell me someone with sub-par genetics can't do something like get to 10-12% bodyfat @ a half-decent weight, I'm going to have to disagree.

Genetics do allow people to train/practice half as hard as others and obtain equal to, or greater results, and to also break boundaries once they reach a higher level of "competition", but it does not mean it's not possible for someone to pick up a guitar and practice his ass off and become great at it.

The biggest % we failed to look at is dedication. Genetics can also only get you so far, but if you don't put in the time and effort, you will obviously fail.

[sonicvoodoo]

I know genetics play a huge role if you're trying to become the best of the best, but for most of us here that isn't the goal. Having a 6-pack is not something that can only be achieved by the genetically gifted; being 250+ pounds @ 5% body fat is (usually a mix of genetics + hard training in the gym + diet + drugs).

If this was a body building forum I would understand letting people know that unless they are genetically blessed, they will never achieve the same results as the pros, but for most people in this thread that is not their goal. Your point is still valid and I respect it, but if you're trying to tell me someone with sub-par genetics can't do something like get to 10-12% bodyfat @ a half-decent weight, I'm going to have to disagree.

Genetics do allow people to train/practice half as hard as others and obtain equal to, or greater results, and to also break boundaries once they reach a higher level of "competition", but it does not mean it's not possible for someone to pick up a guitar and practice his ass off and become great at it.

*EDIT*

I really need to add that I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from training if they aren't genetically blessed. I'm not blessed and I've trained for many years. When I began, I thought it was all about dedication, consistency and intensity. It took awhile for me to understand the genetics component. I was MUCH better off when i did

The biggest % we failed to look at is dedication. Genetics can also only get you so far, but if you don't put in the time and effort, you will obviously fail.

that's not what you said here

Genetics basically dictates how efficiently one can build muscle and lose fat, but if someone is dedicated and strict enough they can achieve the same results over a longer period of time.

*EDIT*

I really need to add that I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from training if they aren't genetically blessed. I'm not blessed and I've trained for many years. When I began, I thought it was all about dedication, consistency and intensity. It took awhile for me to understand the genetics component. I was MUCH better off when i did

[Phyziks]

That's actually exactly what I was talking about. My argument wasn't focused on competitive bodybuilding (where genetics are obviously the most important factor) because from my understanding that isn't what anyone here is trying to achieve. Like I said, if the argument was on bodybuilding.com then I would agree with you entirely.

My only problem is I don't want people who are looking to change their body and lifestyle to think that it's impossible because they are not genetically predisposed to it. They may not be able to become professional bodybuilders, but I highly doubt they would even want to if they had the option.

This is simply a misunderstanding, and looking at it I think we're both on the same page. This is a fashion forum. Being so, people in this thread are either trying to lose weight, even if they aren't large, or trying to put some muscle on their frame without becoming too large. This is a very realistic goal for most people and genetics would only dictate how efficiently it can be done for them. It might take one person longer, but it's still possible because the goal is reasonable. If anyone else has a different goal, I highly doubt they would be coming to this forum/thread for workout advice because there are a variety of other sites with a vaster pool of knowledge on this subject. The few people like Knucks and Kunk who are more serious about weight lifting are simply here to share stories and experiences on the subject.

[Pandemonium]

I agree more so about the genetics side of it for your body but IMO Picasso's upbringing and education played a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger role than genetics.

pretty sure it was his inability to paint.

otherwise it was the drugs. probably the drugs.

[NatseOklim]

Have you seen Picasso's early work? Motherfucker could certainly paint. He learnt to paint well BEFORE he started his cubism.

[sonicvoodoo]

I wonder if anyone has ever called Picasso a motherfucker before?

[NatseOklim]

I wonder if anyone has ever called Picasso a motherfucker before?

I am almost certain he has been, dude was difficult to live with from what I understand. Guarantee Franco called him something similar.

[Billy.Barbados]

The biggest % we failed to look at is dedication. Genetics can also only get you so far, but if you don't put in the time and effort, you will obviously fail.

Successful bodybuilders started working out in their teens, I think that is the biggest reason for their success.

Genetics definitely are a factor, but it wont inhibit you from any realistic goal. I've noticed that a lot of brothers have good genetics, some of my friends have never dieted or lifted weights in their life and they have visible abs and OK physiques.. But does that mean that just because something is harder for you that you can't achieve it? Not at all.

[CUTUP]

The real question is what do you define as a realistic goal? ^

I think everyone can go back and forth about the whole " try hard enough and you can acheive anything" but in reality its bullshit

I do see what your getting at though Billy, if you never try and fail, you never know if you could have achieved your goal, whether it be crazy or not

I was told I would never get to half the size I am due to my extremely fast metabolism, but I weigh more then 40 pounds heavier then what the trainer said I would achieve " juiced out of my skull for 10 years"

So there is something to be said for at least trying, as those that do sometimes achieve their goals or even exceed them