Research on denim markets: Japan, California (US), Scandinavia & Italy

[benzak]

In our lovely world of denim, I believe, there are 4 markets that can be identified as the big 4: Japan, California (US), Scandinavia & Italy. Each market is situated in a different part of the world, and therefore they all function differently. Each market has their own characteristics, eg: the Japanese in general are very focussed on copy+improve (which also counts for their denim).

I'm working on my final thesis, to finish my education (Fashion Management). The subject above will be part of it. I'd like to start a discussion on this subject, to see how everyone here thinks about it, since we have so many people from different parts of the world at this forum.

Things that can be discussed are:

-what is the history of each market regarding to denim?

-how does the market in each region function in general?

-what are the main trends within each region?

-what are the leading denim brands, and what makes them leaders?

-is there any production left, and if so, at what level are they?

-what flaws can be seen in each market?

-how are import and export of denim related?

-what is role of upcoming denim regions like Turkey?

etc etc

I'm not looking for straight answers or anything, because I think there are no right answers, it's just a matter of taste and opinion.

All contributions are welcome and I hope that I can use this as a part of my final thesis!

EDIT: in post #12 I made some changes to this post.

[Denim Phenom]

I think you should expand the US market to all of the US instead of just centering on California. There were denim mills all over the US so I think the focus should be US wide to give a better perspective. I'm sure there are guys like Paul T who know where the actual mills were.

[midnight]

Cool question. My opinions are...

Japan: Quality reigns supreme in the denim world. People would much rather have a brand that nobody else has ever heard of then a mainstream label. One of the trends is that somebody will buy one brand of clothing only, and wear that every day. They are much more about the denim overall then any other aspect of jeans, besides detail and quality. Take a look at iron hearts, samurais, and flat heads: GREAT quality denim. Everything about it is done specifically. Shorter threads are added to make a much slubbier denim, and they are taken out to make non slubby denim. Japanese jeans are the only type i've seen that have also dyed the weft indigo as well, showing that its mostly about the denim. Details and hardware are important too. I like the way that on the anniversary samurais they added the wires into the back pockets, so that over time it would fade into the arcs. The quality is also extremely important. People there want a pair of jeans that will stay in perfect condition for a few years. Slim cuts are popular.

Scandinavia: The jeans remind me of Ikea. Some cool designed stuff, just that the quality is shit. Look at nudies and cheap monday. People are much more into the fit then anything else. Super skinny, low yokes, dropped backed pockets, ect. The denim quality itself doesnt really matter. People seem to like more cult type labels, but something that if you said the name of people would recognize. They want people going, "Wow. Nudie jeans. Those are those cool new hip popular jeans! They must be a cool kid"

Italy: When i went to italy i saw a lot of interesting cuts of denim. Nobody really wearing anything super skinny, while nobody was also wearing anything super baggy. I saw a lot of tight in the thigh but loose below the knee diesel jeans. The designer stuff seems to be much more about tiny, un noticable details. All the jeans looked so similar to me.

USA: There are three categories in the US i believe.

1. People who buy kmart stone washed jeans or just classic old levis because they simply do not care about clothes and can't afford them.

2. People who think they are being hip by wearing citizens of humanity, 7 for all mankind, rock & republic, ect.

3. People (women) who wear super expensive couture style jeans.

4. People who would hate the idea of even imagining having to wear 7 jeans. Raw denim reigns supreme to this crowd. Provokes zen like patience while waiting for jeans to fade.

Overall i think most people who do care will be #2. I hate this. People will spend 200 dollars on jeans eevrybody else has just to try and fit in. All they care about is the brand name. Faded things are the most popular. On guys, the most popular fit is a baggier or boot cut fit. Women wear mostly skinny or straight. Nothing matters except for the label.

[hendo99]

Well done midnight, your spot on.

[benzak]

thanks for taking the time to type that out, midnight

all contributions are welcome, even if it doesn't really answers the questions (which are more like guidelines for discussion anyway)

[rirakuma]

I disagree, Nudies arent as nice as some Japanese brands but the quality nowhere near as bad as you say it is. The only thing I dont like about them is that they've been hyped

Cool question. My opinions are...

Scandinavia: The jeans remind me of Ikea. Some cool designed stuff, just that the quality is shit. Look at nudies and cheap monday. People are much more into the fit then anything else. Super skinny, low yokes, dropped backed pockets, ect. The denim quality itself doesnt really matter. People seem to like more cult type labels, but something that if you said the name of people would recognize. They want people going, "Wow. Nudie jeans. Those are those cool new hip popular jeans! They must be a cool kid"

[iamstarwars]

Midnight, I think your vision is too caricatural. Not everybody in Japan cares about unknown slubby jeans. None of my Japanese friends are into denim, and they'd much rather wear Levi's than those "hairy dark repros" I wear all the time. Levi's , Lees and even Wranglers are the shit out of the US. Not everybody in Sweden wears Nudies or Acnes either and not everybody in Italy wears washed out Diesel or Energie. I think in all countries, and it extents to all places, not the four metionned here, what people wear depends on their tastes and cultural or fashion preferences.

People will wear good or shitty jeans wherever they come from.

Benzak, I also think you could divide the European market in two: northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany, Benelux and France to an extent) and Southern/Mediterranean Europe (Italy, Spain...)

[16steps]

do your own homework!! (10cha)

[teflon_don]

USA: There are three categories in the US i believe.

1. People who buy kmart stone washed jeans or just classic old levis because they simply do not care about clothes and can't afford them.

and can't afford them? There are tons of people who could afford 1k jeans who just want a pair of simple jeans. A prime example is Jay Leno but I know plenty of wealthy guys who would NEVER pay more then 50 bucks on jeans. (Not saying Leno wouldn't but don't assume they "can't afford" the "good" stuff. It should probably say that they don't care about clothes that much and/OR can't afford them I wonder if bill gates rocks dior homme shiz with Y-3 kicks and some super elite messenger bag for his laptop

[theetruscan]

I wonder if bill gates rocks dior homme shiz with Y-3 kicks and some super elite messenger bag for his laptop

Of course .

[nemoulette]

Some Sweden denim history... Denim got really big after the father of Filippa Knutsson (of Filippa K fame) travelled to the US in the 60s and started to import denim here. The brand? Gul & Blå

[benzak]

Benzak, I also think you could divide the European market in two: northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany, Benelux and France to an extent) and Southern/Mediterranean Europe (Italy, Spain...)

By only looking at Scandinavia (mostly Sweden) and Italy in the EU, I'd miss out on many other countries. But, for me these four regions I call the big four are the ones that not only represent great brands, but also produce or design on a large number and high quality.

USA: jeans as we know them knowadays are originally from the USA. the oldest mills and brands are situated there.

Japan: denim heaven, regarding quality. lot of production, as well fabric as garment. nothing new really but vintage quality taken to a new level (copy + improve)

Scandinavia: very different from the rest. based on rock n roll, started in the 60s. therefore cuts and design are more important than qualities of fabrics. nowadays very trendy region, also sober (lots of black, white and grey)

Italy: still number one in EU regarding fashion, not only for design but also for the fact that Italy still does production. Italian denim fabrics are beautifull and big (mainstream) labels like Diesel, Energy and Replay are from Italy

So what I really want to focus on is production/design/development of denim fabrics and garments, not really retail and consumer. Also, I'm ONLY looking at the premium and fashion market, so let's say $100+ denim (+ fashion labels like Cheap Monday, who basicaly have the same costumer as lots of high end fashion labels)

The question I want to look at can be changed a little, maybe to this:

-what is the history of each region regarding to denim?

-what are the main trends within each region?

-what are the leading premium/fashion denim brands, and what makes them leaders?

-does the region produce itself, or is it only design?

-how are import and export of denim related?

-what is the role of upcoming denim regions like Turkey and China?

[chantheman]

how is this coming along?

[Guest Methimphibian]

thought nudie did production in italy?

[benzak]

how is this coming along?

I'm still researching, but on a slow pace, and for my own interest. For my final thesis I changed the subject to more practical one, and using most of my time for that. I developed a jeansline for a shop in the Netherlands, which is now in production. Pretty different story!

thought nudie did production in italy?

Nudie produces their jeans in Italy. Tshirts are mostly made in Portugal, as far as I know (looked inside the Nudie tshirts I own). All development is done in Sweden.