cyberpunk.

[viv1984viv]

Yeah, one of the founders of Paypal funded myspace. - You would F'kin love Greg Niemeyers lecture series.

Transhumanism? Extropianism? What do you think? I find it all fascinating but hard to decide upon a position to take - whilst infortonomy ( yo I should TM that ) is wonderful and kinda what the web was invented for, I think being in a position to be unable to work/live without giving so much data over to a cyberworld is unnerving. The worlds a fickle, volatile place. The Germans did a national survey in 1928 in which stating your religion was a requirement - it was fine then, but in a decade shit shifted.

Best thread for ages.

[jeepster]

we're studying eugenics in my animal behavior class right now. i forget who wrote it, there is a book on this - at the same time as the holocaust and the promotion of the uber-man (aryan ideal) in germany during WWII, there was a eugenics project going on in the US as well as in Russia. i forget the name of the book and who wrote it, but it looked interesting. very cyberpunkish in process. eugenics is some crazy stuff.

[alf]

post-humanism, or singularity, or whatever, kinda creeps me out, but fascinates at the same time.

evolutionary computation & genetic algorithms are also very very weird. a computer science prof gave a guest lecture in one of my classes (@ucla) on complexity in evolutionary computing.

basically the gist of the idea is that they create a software environment and a goal, and let random 'mutations' generate and compete to complete a task, mating the most successful ones and introducing further random variation in the next stage, repeating this to create multiple, successively more sophisticated generations.

The code would evolve to accomplish the task, but when they looked at the code that had been generated, it made no sense to the human programmers.

There're videos that make a little more sense of it...

stuff's old, from 1994

xiRhe8mL_08

The implication being that you can evolve a sophisticated computerized intelligence, rather than having to program it yourself. the example in the lecture was developing an intelligent control program for a battle tank by evolving it in a simulated environment...

[cyberPUNK]

you go to ucla too? shit small world.

as for the evolution of computerized intelligence that's pretty interesting. any idea what the name of the guest speaker? i'd be really interested in reading more on the subject.

[viv1984viv]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_Night

inspired loads of writers, Orwell, Atwood...... and very much aligned with the notions you mentioned jeepster

The Turing Test???? Ought to be mentioned, in alot of threads I suspect there are computers sitting somewhere passing the TT in order to generate hype for big brands...... the term 'robokopped' has more meaning to it than first imagined maybe...

[alf]

you go to ucla too? shit small world.

as for the evolution of computerized intelligence that's pretty interesting. any idea what the name of the guest speaker? i'd be really interested in reading more on the subject.

haha yea, spring is my last quarter. this is the guy's site - http://gessler.bol.ucla.edu/

it's way too colorful so I stopped looking at it, but it may have some good links.

[rcpaskus]

anyone seen the movie 'metropolis'?

anime, not fritz'.

cyber or steam?

more cyber i'd say...

[heBAY]

anyone seen the movie 'metropolis'?

anime, not fritz'.

cyber or steam?

more cyber i'd say...

Of course...seen both...great anime. I'd say hmmm...I'd say cyber too...but lemme read up more on the definition of steam.

[heBAY]

Some pics I promised...PC cyberpunkery.

[heBAY]

PC Engine Super-CD Cyberpunkery (for us US gamers, the system was unfortunately known as the TurboDuo...from NEC's Turbo Grafx 16 family)...

A classic from the masters at Konami.

Basically a twist on Blade Runner...fun times.

[heBAY]

Details:

Bloodnet - 1993 (Microprose)

[heBAY]

Beneath A Steel Sky - 1994 (Revolution/Virgin)

(Sorry for the flash)

[heBAY]

Syndicate Wars - 1996 (Bullfrog/EA)

[jeepster]

PC Engine Super-CD Cyberpunkery (for us US gamers, the system was unfortunately known as the TurboDuo...from NEC's Turbo Grafx 16 family)...

A classic from the masters at Konami.

Basically a twist on Blade Runner...fun times.

that is my favorite style of anime. i wish more artists utilized it. its so crisp and awesome looking.

does it have a certain name?

sorry to get off topic, but im always looking for more examples of anime in this style.

[heBAY]

that is my favorite style of anime. i wish more artists utilized it. its so crisp and awesome looking.

does it have a certain name?

sorry to get off topic, but im always looking for more examples of anime in this style.

Honestly I don't know...I'll try and get you the name of the artist. I definitely am a fan as well. It's more realistic in actual human physical proportions...less outrageous and extreme (especially with facial features).

[alf]

xyN4ViZ21N0

O_O

[Appleseed]

Syndicate Wars was great! Didn't they have a PC/Mac version too? Pretty sure I played that on my old PowerMac.

So even tho I managed to miss the premier of Appleseed : Ex Machina a couple months ago, the DVD has been released, and I picked it up the other day.

Anyways; while not as as complex or deep as the original comic series, it is quite a bit better than the first CGI movie of a couple years ago. It definetly felt very much an 'anime' film in many regards, complete with tentacle porn motif. I was a bit dissapointed in how much it lifted from other films (one scene straight outta the last Matrix) but a familiar cyberpunk theme of increasing virtualization/reliance on remote access that leads to decreased 'humanization' was kinda at the base of the film.

Anyone else see yet? They did the premier in LA at the Jules Verne Sci-fi festival in the middle of Dec.

I had to cop, well, just because...

[jeepster]

just a question... i started watching ghost int he shell SAC in order (up until now, i've only watched episodes in a one off fashion on adult swim if im awake when they're on or i remember), and im wondering why they never address birth in the ghost in the shell universe. they talk about cybernitic birth and all that jazz, but they never really address natural human birth and whether its affected in the world they live in. do kids get cyberbrains at a young age, or do they receive them once they are to enter the workign force... it's somethign i sorta wish was more focused on because it would clairfy a lot of the ambiguity that the series has and would help explain the stand alone complex and those concepts a little more.

[viv1984viv]

mmmm, good question, growing up is mentioned and the origins of two very major characters include cyberization - but as a consequence of an unfortunate accident. Perhaps the kids being born in the day of GITS would be the first humans to go fully cyborg from birth. But, the cyberization notion is a very physical one, and more of an upgrade rather than the biological advantages seen in many other Sci-Fi works.

Also cyberization is a huge business - tramps are the only adults to go without upgrades, and quirky ludite special forces members! Perhaps in the generation after Togusa - his kids maybe? Cyber-upgrades will start at school and continue into adult hood, I think in the flash backs the majority of the team were humans and cyberization has been a very recent and rapid change occuring within the lives

I think the stand alone complex is a much more abstract idea do with sociology, networks and increasingly alienated positions in society.... the term itself derives from a pre-existing theory I cant recall right now.

Jeepster - there are some wonderful episodes that focus on just the philosophical aspects of the story..

[notesee]

I know the anime movie Venus Wars has always had some mixed reviews but it was a science fiction related piece that I really enjoyed when I first came across it in the 90's. I'm sure some of you guys have seen it.

I'm not sure whether it's more cyber punk or steam punk. I really wish I could get some more Akira in my life too. When I was younger I was able to get my hands on the older manga books ... which dug a lot deeper into the story, (not the Tokyopop release a few years ago). But damn, I remember being hooked on those books.

Hebay, great pics of the games. I wish I could break out my old PC and check them out. Snatcher looks awesome too, I remember looking it up on wiki when you first mentioned it. Is the whole game in Japanese? Were you able to play through it? Some fans need to translate it and re release it out on the net.

[jeepster]

mmmm, good question, growing up is mentioned and the origins of two very major characters include cyberization - but as a consequence of an unfortunate accident. Perhaps the kids being born in the day of GITS would be the first humans to go fully cyborg from birth. But, the cyberization notion is a very physical one, and more of an upgrade rather than the biological advantages seen in many other Sci-Fi works.

Also cyberization is a huge business - tramps are the only adults to go without upgrades, and quirky ludite special forces members! Perhaps in the generation after Togusa - his kids maybe? Cyber-upgrades will start at school and continue into adult hood, I think in the flash backs the majority of the team were humans and cyberization has been a very recent and rapid change occuring within the lives

I think the stand alone complex is a much more abstract idea do with sociology, networks and increasingly alienated positions in society.... the term itself derives from a pre-existing theory I cant recall right now.

Jeepster - there are some wonderful episodes that focus on just the philosophical aspects of the story..

well, as i've been wiki'ing GITS: SAC and the rest of the series, its come more and more to my attention that cyberization is really an adult practice, rather than one of growth. once the brain reaches a developed stage, probably aroudn the teenage years, cyberization is introduced and made more and more accessible to people - but this brings up another pertinent point: do those in the series who embrace cyperization take into account the continued procreation of the species? while they say prostitutes are still for the most part human, there are android sex slaves, etc. etc., so where do we see wholely human people? togusa is human, but he does grapple with the conflict of cyberization as well as not being indigenous to the location of the series (he's Canadian-born). just musing on it... ya know...

anyways, the SAC is based in-part on of the writings and theories of Jean Baudrillard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard

[viv1984viv]

ahhhh - thats the guy. Baudrillard!

Im just about to start his 'simulacra and simulation' book.

There are lots of answears to your questions.... have you seen the movies??

I cant say too much about Togusa Or Kusanagi they both go through or have been through alot though...... agh, I dont want to spoil anything for you though! Keep watching - series 2 is good, buy it.

One thing I would recommend is to print out the Series Synopsis off wikipedia and follow it as you watch the episodes, very geeky, very good though as its so complex. Allows you to get the most out of all the different narratives and the umpteen layers within.

[jeepster]

i saw the original movie before i saw the series, but i can't say i know much about SAC and from what i've read, it doesn't really relate to the concepts explored in the first movie.

but im watching it, so ill keep up with it somehow.

[notesee]

Jeepster or Viv ... have either of you read through this graphic novel?

It's one of those books I purchased years ago and never had the chance to read through. Might pick it up later tonight.

[jeepster]

yeah i used to just sit in Barnes & Nobles for hours reading manga and other graphic novels. i read the manga, but it was so long ago that i sorta barely remember it. the wikipedia article refreshed some stuff, but im definitely gonna have to pick it up in the near future.

[heBAY]

Syndicate Wars was great! Didn't they have a PC/Mac version too? Pretty sure I played that on my old PowerMac.

So even tho I managed to miss the premier of Appleseed : Ex Machina a couple months ago, the DVD has been released, and I picked it up the other day.

Anyways; while not as as complex or deep as the original comic series, it is quite a bit better than the first CGI movie of a couple years ago. It definetly felt very much an 'anime' film in many regards, complete with tentacle porn motif. I was a bit dissapointed in how much it lifted from other films (one scene straight outta the last Matrix) but a familiar cyberpunk theme of increasing virtualization/reliance on remote access that leads to decreased 'humanization' was kinda at the base of the film.

Anyone else see yet? They did the premier in LA at the Jules Verne Sci-fi festival in the middle of Dec.

I had to cop, well, just because...

Yeah Syndicate and Syndicate Wars was released for the PC...that is the PC version I had (in the pics). I remember getting Syndicate and a few other "EA Games Classics" for like $10 a piece. Once I played Syndicate I was hooked...the combo of the gauss rocket launcher and the chaingun was the shit...then SWars added the Satelite laser...taking down entire buildings in a flash. Great destructive fun.

I JUST realized Appleseed Ex Machina is NEW and NOT the remake of a few years ago. I was incredibly disappointed with the og Appleseed anime when I rented it back in the days...shit was so fractured and had no real flow to it. I read a little bit of the manga and knew the anime did not do it justice...plus I loved the patented Shirow design and artwork...so I was real happy at the remake. I need to see Ex Machina.

What about tentacle porn though? I don't see how they would fit that into the story (unless it's some type of killer machine with flailing, phallic cables or some shit). Weird that they'd go there.

I recently watched A Wind Named Amnesia...now it isn't really cyberpunk, it's more on some post-apocalyptic vibe...but great anime feature nonetheless (recommended). Also just picked up Karas 1 & 2.

[heBAY]

Jeepster or Viv ... have either of you read through this graphic novel?

It's one of those books I purchased years ago and never had the chance to read through. Might pick it up later tonight.

I'd like to pick this up and read through it as well. I still have to read the whole Akira series as well as Domu (another Otomo psychic apocalyptic masterpiece)...and Frank Miller's Hard Boiled...which I would say falls into the category of cyber punk quite nicely.

[heBAY]

I know the anime movie Venus Wars has always had some mixed reviews but it was a science fiction related piece that I really enjoyed when I first came across it in the 90's. I'm sure some of you guys have seen it.

I'm not sure whether it's more cyber punk or steam punk. I really wish I could get some more Akira in my life too. When I was younger I was able to get my hands on the older manga books ... which dug a lot deeper into the story, (not the Tokyopop release a few years ago). But damn, I remember being hooked on those books.

Hebay, great pics of the games. I wish I could break out my old PC and check them out. Snatcher looks awesome too, I remember looking it up on wiki when you first mentioned it. Is the whole game in Japanese? Were you able to play through it? Some fans need to translate it and re release it out on the net.

Shit I missed this post when reading...dunno how.

Thanks for the proppers on the pics. RE: Snatcher, yes, it is all in Japanese. I was semi-able to play through it back in my crazy days of figuring out symbols and remembering what certain commands looked like (can't read/speak a lick of Japanese). They did release a translated version of it on the Sega CD I think...and they also have a guide up. I was going to use that and play it again on the PCE emulator on my PC. Emulators are the best thing to happen to us first/second gen /nostalgic video game heads. Fuck around and you may be able to find the translated version for the SEGA CD on emulator (I have no idea if they have that...but why not).

Speaking of emulators and video game nostalgia...you guys ever heard of Abandon Ware? It's basically all of the old DOS games that are not being published for sale anymore. There are probably a few sites for this...but I will provide the link to a real ill site in a second...I was able to download most of the PC games I mentioned and took pics of. Bloodnet will be played this week. Zip files of the whole shit...some don't even need a DOS emu to run...some MAY. It's usually all explained on these sites.

Dark Seed 1 & 2 (HR Giger's trip into PC Graphic Adventure games) are also on my list of games to be played...for a futuristic/cyberpunk'ish horror twist on the genre.

[heBAY]

Akira is the best...love the art...the story...the animation was incredible...the characters were sick...I dunno...I'd love to score some old Akira tees...if not Kaneda "pill" jacket. Fuck Kanye West for using Akira as an idea for his video.

I think I actually stil have this one blue Tetsuo shirt with him rockin the red cloak and cybernetic arm. I think those joints are out of print too.

[notesee]

Hebay - I remember I was always attracted to Domu too, just because the cover of the first manga issue was so bizarre looking, but I never got the chance to actually pick them up. I was afraid they'd be a let down in comparison to Akira, but maybe if I can find them somewhere scanned for download I'll grab 'em.

I'm on a Mac now, been having a problem finding a Sega CD emulator for it, but I had one on my PC laptop with a few RPG's. But anyway, the last game I tried to break out again and play was Fallout a few summers ago. Surprisingly my old CD installed fine on my Windows XP system.

Back to Akira though. What did Kanye use from it for his video? I hate Kanye ... haven't heard about this move. Now that I think about it, I have an Akira wallscroll somewhere in my house from years ago. Wonder if it's still in decent condition, I believe it's of Kaneda walking to his bike. If you pick up the manga, make sure to dive into the series with this cover first:

Not sure if there's any changes in the Tokyopop release of the manga, because I haven't read through those but this series published by Kodansha were great.