Which is the darkest Indigo denim ?

[dim376]

I know of various dark Indigos denims being done by various mills around the world. Some of them are quite dark - some like Tavex even claim that their denim is the darkest in the world. But I am not sure as Japanese mills like Kaihara also have quite dark colors. And not to forget the natural indigo dyed fabrics which some manufacturers dye upto 48 times.. But is there any definitive answer to this question?

[beatle]

I have only seen pictures of the Samurai AI's - and they look really dark...

[Cameland]

I think eternals 811 denim is really dark looking.

[beatle]

It is, indeed....I was torn between Eternal 811 and Samurai AI - after seeing the pics of some AI's after soak - I feel that Samurai's latest natural indigo is a beat darker...

[gimmegimme]

I'm gonna have to go with SDA 103's...they almost look black.

[erbs]

SD 103s are darker than eternals. My Flathead 3003s were really dark the first few weeks or so, but they faded fast.

[ktouran6923]

I think the winner would have to be the natural indigo 103, when I saw them i thought they were black jeans....

[arlee]

yeah the sam AI's are really dark even after the soak they still look black

[kiya]

The darkest indigo denim we've got at Self Edge is Flat Head's 3XXX denim...

Anything darker than a mild blue is most probably a sulfur top.

[edmond]

the denime 66 and the sd103 have almost the same black hue..

[edmond]

wahat fh model has that 3xxx denim?

[kiya]

wahat fh model has that 3xxx denim?

F310, F380, 3001, 3003xx, 3007.

[theetruscan]

F310, F380, 3001, 3003xx, 3007.

Is the F350 between the F310 and F380 in fit, or is the numbering not that logical?

[kiya]

Is the F350 between the F310 and F380 in fit, or is the numbering not that logical?

The numbering is not that logical...

The F350 is a wide leg straight cut...

It's the only one we don't carry...

[watchman]

103's and 811's are both super dark, they look black.

[PG2G]

Isn't natural indigo normally a bit lighter than synthetic?

[bankershill]

Isn't natural indigo normally a bit lighter than synthetic?

It appears so. I think natural has more green hue and synthetic has more of a red hue. My Eternals are the darkest pair I own other than my black jeans. They don't seem to fade as much either, or at least, bleed as much when I soak/wash them.

I'm not suggesting that Natural fades faster the synthetic though

My votes Ets/SDA/PBJ

[Revsta]

PBJ 007s I'd say

[theetruscan]

PBJ 007s I'd say

Wouldn't recommend the PBJs for someone looking for really dark jeans. They fade not so slowly, and the fades somehow look more white than on my other jeans. Hard to capture with pictures.

[dim376]

actually i was wondering about the mill that manufactures the darkest denim..but one thing looks certain that natural indigo normally tends to be darker than synthetic indigo

[dim376]

any idea from which mill the fabric is?

[

The darkest indigo denim we've got at Self Edge is Flat Head's 3XXX denim...

Anything darker than a mild blue is most probably a sulfur top.

[ringring]

..but one thing looks certain that natural indigo normally tends to be darker than synthetic indigo

Unfortunately, that's one thing that is far from certain.

Exhibit A : A pair of cheap Uniqlo S002s at, if my memory serves, at under 5000 yen are a lot darker than a pair of 45rpm Jomons, dyed with natural indigo at around 50,000 yen. (more on this at another point in time).

Actually this example probably throws in sulphur into the equation.

Exhibit B : My natural indigo Piggy Artisans are far lighter than the same style in synthetic 'pure indigo'.

All things equal (which they never are), natural indigo and synthetic indigo should be the same. They are chemically identical. But all sorts of things will effect the shade including impurtities, dye times, type of dyeing, yarn prepartion, oxidation times etc etc.

I think there's a deeper discussion about this on here somewhere.

[ringring]

Here you go: Natural Indigo vs Synthetic discussion

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=11213

[gimmegimme]

I agree...natural indigo definitely looks different, but not necessarily darker. Always depends on the actual denim of course.

[J425]

wow...i just read the whole natural vs synthetic indigo thread and i feel so enlightened not to mention my eyes hurt, great read tho. (looks down at sam 710s inquisitively, imagining the potential of its fading properties)

[viv1984viv]

Yeah, I think its impossible to compare Natural and Synthetic indigos because the playing field is never ever level.

Also I think the darkest denim would probably be the stuff with sulphur in it.

So maybe a better question is "who dips most?"

Although even then there would be variables, cotton, warp size, weave, indigo etc etc

[ringring]

So maybe a better question is "who dips most?"

Although even then there would be variables, cotton, warp size, weave, indigo etc etc

The answer to that of course is....Land's End, with an eye watering 46 dips, thrashing the 45rpm Jomons who weigh in, soaking wet, at a piffling 24 dips

Land's End chatter here :

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34189&highlight=lands+end

[gimmegimme]

The answer to that of course is....Land's End, with an eye watering 46 dips, thrashing the 45rpm Jomons who weigh in, soaking wet, at a piffling 24 dips

Land's End chatter here :

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=34189&highlight=lands+end

Other companies can only aspire to be to denim what Land's End is.

[viv1984viv]

Mmmmm, maybe that wasnt the best example, but I guess you can see what I was getting at.

Its such a shame that quality is such a slippery subject. Meaning you cant just blindly buy knowing its woven X way or dipped X times because the playing field is so uneven and quality so subjective to the other variables etc etc

Ringrings great example of knowing landsend is dipped umpteen times more than 45rpm just shows what a mine field buying a quality product can be!

Its the same with many things, just paying the most will not get you the best product ( otherwise we could just buy anything Lanvin and know its superior ), and also comparing data or stats about a product certainly wont get you any closer to the best product. However the process of learning about a products production may - may get you to define want you want from a product ( fit? branding? fabric? ) and thus closer to buying a "quality" product. Its why some people consider dior the finest denim, others consider Sugarcane the best. "But canes have the best fabric!" you may cry - maybe not - quality is so subject - some people like slubby, crocky denim, others may want a smooth, thin cool fabric.

So I guess if you want the darkest denim then some overdyed jeans maybe what you want ( they would still have an indigo edge to the hue ).

Maybe you want the jeans that best hold their dye? SDA may be good? Eternal? Some naturals tend to fade slower.

Im sure you dont just want the darkest jeans? Regardless of texture, fit, construction etc?

This is another one of my silly rants i guess.

[ringring]

Ringrings great example of knowing landsend is dipped umpteen times more than 45rpm just shows what a mine field buying a quality product can be!

Actually, I don't know that Landsend dipped their yarn 46 times. I just know that they claim it is. Note that is for their 47 Indigo Original Narrow Leg jeans and not the selvedge jeans.

Quoted from the Land's End site : "While most denim yarns are "dipped" (fabric-speak for "dyed") just eight times, we dip the ones in our 47 Indigo denim a full 46 times before they're woven into fabric at an American mill. These repeated dips give the cloth an unusually rich and deep color resembling denim fabric from a century ago. Then garment washing (the 47th step of the name) creates the look and feel of wear, ranging from almost new to 5 years' worth of wear complete with "whiskering" across the front and subtle fading on the thighs. And thanks to the 46 dips, the color is as durable as the fabric itself: 47 Indigo Jeans stay the color you buy far longer than other denim does."

This an extraordinary claim for jeans retailing at $49.50 using US made denim.

47 Indigo Jeans : http://www.landsend.com/pp/47IndigoOriginalNarrowLegJeans-58858_172898_-1.html?CM_MERCH=PAGE_58858

Note that no such claims are made for their Japanese woven, $75 Handcrafted Original Narrow Leg Jeans...

"Handcrafted Jeans are the finest we offer, with the best fabrics, authentic craftsmanship, and attention to detail making each pair truly unique. The fabric is made from ringspun yarns (both indigo-dyed and an off-white yarns, which yields incredibly rich, vintage-looking colors) on old-fashioned (read pre-1970s) narrow looms in Japan"