Big E's found...ID help needed

[hatfeathers]

I've been lurking around reading the fantastic bits of info here. I found some Big E's at an estate auction this last week, (90 yr old gal, these were in a box with other old jeans and a 40s swimsuit) and would love to have some help confirming what I have and how old they are.

These mint condition jeans are dark blue, redline selvedge (red still visible), button fly, no tagging inside/back.

Here's the big question, though. The back of all the buttons show a tool mark, but no numerals. Without the tagging or button marks, how can I determine the style and dating? The tool mark is three or four sets of three dashes:

Don't want to bog the boards down, here's links to the whole view and details:

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE2SM.jpg

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE1SM.jpg

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE3SM.jpg

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE4SM.jpg

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE5SM.jpg

http://www.hatfeathersvintage.com/LevisBigE/BigE6SM.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated, oh gurus of denim!

Jenn

[airportlobbytx]

I hate you so much at this moment.

[hatfeathers]

Either I have something good or I'm totally wasting your time....

[Charlie Delta]

Do bog the boards down and post all the pics on here, people will only be gratefull.

50's something? Quick guess...

Leather patch missing?

Don't tell us you got these for a 2 bucks or something like that.

[hawkeye]

Those are beautiful, what does the back of the red tab have on it?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

they look like 50's something because of the shape of the backpockets and the overall cut. late 40's is also possible.

[lilldavid]

looks a lot like fities levis

[hatfeathers]

So there would be Levis out there without the stamped number on the button? Did they start that any certain year or something? Is there a term for these, like the 555, 505, XX sort of design that collectors would look for?

There is no back tag, but the stitching does gap where the tag would traditionally be. No impression or evidence is left of the tag, though. The lady must have done sewing, so she could have skillfully removed the back tag. There was much fabric and buttons, but no home sewn clothing, all store bought. I usually deal lady's dresses and such, but like to know what to look for with jewels like these when they come up. I got a lot of dresses from this estate, circa late 50s and through the 60s. None in as good condition as these jeans.

here's some highlights...the tag back, with LEVIS upside down and the circle R, Levis is rightside up on front

I'm guessing whomever these were purchased for didn't like them, since there's no signs of wear. Just a few superficial pin sized dots of paint which flaked off easily. They are crisp and dark.

[Charlie Delta]

for a definitive answer I'd suggest contacting Lynn at Levi's

[knucks]

How much did those run you?

[hatfeathers]

I didn't get them cheap, but I didn't pay more than I would have for new jeans from the mall. Oh, and 6 hours of standing in the sun waiting for their turn.

[Denim Phenom]

How much are you going to sell these in your vintage store for after you find out what they are worth?

[hatfeathers]

Probably for at least what they are worth.

I may do ebay and let them fly, I could use the excitement.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

guys... dont tell him what to look for, so we can buy the jeans he finds in the future for less! nah, just kidding.

since the tag was removed, I'd say it's likely that it was the card type and not leather, since you wouldn't be as likely to remove something that looks good(leather).

that would mean they're from the 50's.

btw hatfeathers, if you got any nice men's clothing in good condition, please let me know!

size s

[hatfeathers]

Sure, horriblyjolly, I do occasionally get some nice menswear in. I tend to get way more women's stuff, since around here women in their late 70s to 90s have outlived their hubbies by several decades, on average, and got rid of "his" stuff long ago. I do find an occasional non-leisure suit men's item. I'm playing stuff the store over the next month for my Babylon Mall shop, and have a few mens things to put in.

[mopar_jj]

From my chart these date from 1954-1966 if they had the paper patch. Earlier if they had the leather one.

http://www.milktea.com/jeans/jeans_detail.htm

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.milktea.com%2Fjeans%2Fjeans_detail.htm&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Maybe one/some of our Japanese Sfriends can provide us with a better translation than the google one.

[hatfeathers]

Thanks for all your help, Sfriends!

I went ahead and listed these on ebay, and they are getting some attention.

If you want to watch along, here they are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-50-s-60-s-Levis-Jeans-Big-E-Button-Fly-30-33_W0QQitemZ130118854961QQihZ003QQcategoryZ52392QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[queenothetwist]

I'm curious about the marks on the button back - I've had several pair with these diamond-ish shaped marks - what are these called?

[hatfeathers]

They almost look like the marks from a pliers to me, tool marks, that is.

Guess it would take quite a clamper to get such heavy metal things through the tough old denim. I'm not familiar with how the Levis manufacturing process has changed or evolved over the years.

Sure wish they'd go back to however they made them in at least the early '90s, though. I wore the same 4 pairs all through college and a few years after, even. I can't get these newer jeans to hold through more than two years.

[chucksvintage]

They are 51-65 xx levis. If they were single sided tab they would be 47-51 . Is the rivet rounded or flat?That also helps to date them.

[mikeobike]

nice one ! i think they are from the mid 50s early 60s

the "r" and double sided red tab comes around 1954 ... the hidden rivet are gone mid 60s ....

bye

[Olle]

Since it's no tufts between the rivets they are definatly post 55, but before 66 because of the hidden rivets.