clothing trauma

[Fuuma]

This makes me think of how when I was a kid the conservative rich kids all wore lacoste shirts, khakis and topsiders or wallabies. These clothes to me were for years synonymous with the "ruling class", the man, whatever you want to call it.

It still weirds me out to see skaters, hiphoppers, rebellious people of any sort adopting this style. It may have originally been a conscious attempt to co-opt the look, but I think now it has perhaps become disconnected from its former connotations for a lot of younger people.

Which is pretty much the answer to Jmatsu's question...only by having a specific group of people (let's call this group a subculture) re-contextualize the garment and spreading that new meaning among themselves than getting some mainstream exposure and finally adoption can the initial connotation be changed.

The road ahead can be quite rocky for the small group depending on the strength of the meaning anchored to the item and of the impact of the meaning itself. In other words re-contextualizing the Swastika might be a pain in the ass.

As Brian pointed out, wearing the item “differently†might be a solution but this is an unstable and at best temporary band aid on the gashing wound that is being lumped with the wrong individuals.

You’ll notice that the Fashion world constantly attempts to change the signifier associated with an item, something that is somewhat successful with fashion insiders, who are by their nature very sensitive to such ideas, but generally leaves the public at large cold.

[Guest jmatsu]

This makes me think of how when I was a kid the conservative rich kids all wore lacoste shirts, khakis and topsiders or wallabies. These clothes to me were for years synonymous with the "ruling class", the man, whatever you want to call it.

It still weirds me out to see skaters, hiphoppers, rebellious people of any sort adopting this style. It may have originally been a conscious attempt to co-opt the look, but I think now it has perhaps become disconnected from its former connotations for a lot of younger people.

i think that people of less privelage strived to wear these kinds of labels in order to show that they could also contend with the so-called affluent of that time.

obviously because of the media and the "shrinking of the globe" mentality, alot of this shit today does not carry the same social connotations which they had years ago. or maybe it's just the process of "survival of the fittest." meaning that other labels have toppled the once prominent ones forcing them to target other consumers.

[Fuuma]

BTW this is a worthwhile discussion, why is it in the trash? This kinda belongs to superfashion

[Guest jmatsu]

Which is pretty much the answer to Jmatsu's question...only by having a specific group of people (let's call this group a subculture) re-contextualize the garment and spreading that new meaning among themselves than getting some mainstream exposure and finally adoption can the initial connotation be changed.

The road ahead can be quite rocky for the small group depending on the strength of the meaning anchored to the item and of the impact of the meaning itself. In other words re-contextualizing the Swastika might be a pain in the ass.

As Brian pointed out, wearing the item “differently” might be a solution but this is an unstable and at best temporary band aid on the gashing wound that is being lumped with the wrong individuals.

You’ll notice that the Fashion world constantly attempts to change the signifier associated with an item, something that is somewhat successful with fashion insiders, who are by their nature very sensitive to such ideas, but generally leaves the public at large cold.

a so-called "subculture" can revamp or reconceptualize a certain image/piece/method of wearing them, but it is inevitable that the reconcetptualization and it's inactment will become stagnant. i guess what i am getting at is, is there really a point to hold onto something that the industry or we hold sacred if the consumer was not part of it's conception/creation's origins? i mean why fake the funk? in this age since fashion trends tend to die/reincarnate in cycles how does one incoporate himself into this without being benign or seeming contrived? i'm not saying this is important, but the process is certaintly fascinating.

[Bona Drag]

I think now it has perhaps become disconnected from its former connotations for a lot of younger people

is that a good thing or a bad thing?

edit: never mind the rest; a ramble that was mostly covered by fuuma

[Bona Drag]

is there really a point

you tell me

like the rest of sufu (myself included), you think it's worth your time to hang out here and put a little more effort into what you wear than occasionally dropping by macys or the gap

[Guest jmatsu]

as far as military wear/military inspired go, i think that the function/simplistic uniformity aspects of their construction is what attracts. i doubt that most consumers comprehend the menality of the 60-early 70's war era, nor do most care. at least i don't.

[tangerine]

is that a good thing or a bad thing?

and jmatsu bought up the 'p' word

i don't want to delve too deeply into it, but at least in terms of the left/right divide in the u.s. (which i realize you might not have had in mind), i associate basically all fashion with the left, because of the artist/musician/homosexual* influence

obvioulsy, there's more to it than that, but you get the idea...

I don't think it is inherently good or bad, I just find the recontextualization disorienting sometimes. I don't judge it, it is just something that occasionally happens. The fitted, as you mentioned, is another good example.

I do see what you mean about associating fashion with the left, but as Fuuma pointed out earlier, all clothing is a signifier, whether it is fashion or anti-fashion; I know plenty of people who scoff at "fashion" but their studied attire of "practical" garments or deliberately ill-fitting thrift store wear shouts their beliefs just as loudly.

[Bona Drag]

^^

sorry jmatsu, i was blathering and edited it away

but that was sort of my point - peacenik hipsters will wear mil surplus and clothing inspired by it because it's no longer ssen as a direct nod to the army, etc.

[Guest jmatsu]

you tell me

like the rest of sufu (myself included), you think it's worth your time to hang out here and put a little more effort into what you wear than occasionally dropping by macys or the gap

not to sound trite, but i work (and have before the dawn of sufu) in the industry. thus (it may not be a viable excuse), i admit to being somewhat a product of my immediate environment, and because so this is just what seems natural (and sometimes unnatural)to me. being involved for such a duration has obvioulsy lead me to repeatly question the point of certain things and the evolution of certain industry criteria. i see it as just "living the life." so for me, the answer is yes. meaning that it is necessary for my lifestyle/survival. business and pleasure.

[Bona Drag]

I know plenty of people who scoff at "fashion" but their studied attire of "practical" garments or deliberately ill-fitting thrift store wear shouts their beliefs just as loudly.

good point

that's sort of what i was getting at by mentioning the influence of gay culture on fashion, and why many of us on here (again, myself included) joke about 'supergays' - in many parts of this country, caring too much what you wear is seen as gay, or at least not masculine

also, jmatsu, interesting - i didn't know you were in the industry, but then again i haven't been here that long

agree with fuuma that this should maybe be moved out of trash, and perhaps retitled

interested to see where it goes

although i have some cocktails to attend to right now

[Servo2000]

If Jmatsu or anyone else would like to introduce a thread on this topic to Superfashion I'd definitely be interested in adding it to the Sticked "other" thread archive. I find this is a really valuable discussion as so much of fashion relies on perception (of garment, of idea, whatever). Don't have time to comment now, just finished up the new Designer of the Week thread and I have to get back to some real work now.

[dino might]

re-contextualizing the Swastika might be a pain in the ass.

hey, thats what people probably told the nazis.. and now look.

I don't think it is inherently good or bad, I just find the recontextualization disorienting sometimes. I don't judge it, it is just something that occasionally happens. The fitted, as you mentioned, is another good example.

I do see what you mean about associating fashion with the left, but as Fuuma pointed out earlier, all clothing is a signifier, whether it is fashion or anti-fashion; I know plenty of people who scoff at "fashion" but their studied attire of "practical" garments or deliberately ill-fitting thrift store wear shouts their beliefs just as loudly.

painted on pants went from i dont even know what to punk rock and now to "emo kids"

hi top nikes went from basketball players to heavy metal rockstars

weather any recontextualization of an item actually sticks i think depends on whichever group makes it stick most, which has the most impact, and even then, it could potentially change next week. like i said about the nazis up there^, before them the swastika was identified as an eastern religious symbol. but a bunch of monks sitting around somewhere never really shouted to the world, "LOOK AT US". the nazis had the holocaust, so my guess is people will see a swastika and think nazis forever until some group manages to use it and create an even bigger stir in the world than killing 3 million people (or whatever the count was, im no history buff)

*that quote tangerine was on the money, couldnt have put it better. this is some deep shit going down in this thread