How important is exclusivity to you?

[SongAngel]

I present this question to get a better understanding of the "market;"

When a company releases a product in a "limited run," do you find that you are more inclined to buy quickly if you like the item? Like with the recent Northface x Futura collaboration, did you rush to purchase this item, or an item similar?

I know for some items this is always true, like Nike dunks or supreme clothing, but in general, when a given company drops a limited run, do you find yourself steering towards it?

The reason I ask is because after 2 years, my clothing line is considering going public and offering our service to a larger number of individuals. For the last two years we were by invite only, we picked the buyers. It was a great system, because we were never turned down. We did allow a few to purchase off our shelves, but that was only for very top end clients. We'd probably maintain the same amount of buzz and definitely hold status, as we will NEVER over run our lines, everything will maintain its numbers.

If we decide to go public, I am worried about crashing and burning like bape is doing so wonderfully right now. I never want to over-saturate the market with our items; we will ALWAYS keep our clothing true to our line. I just wonder if we will suffer the hype like everyone else, and end up being resold on eBay. We know everyone who owns each shirt we make, and we like it that way. I never want our softgoods to be bootlegged or ebayed.

If you are unaware, I'm the owner of givingTREE softgoods. We've been serving high end clients for 2 years, and have an impeccable name thought the fashion industry. We are attempting to move from elitist status to something more accessible. We have always done 250 or less print runs of shirts, we shoot for 1/3 of all items split between the U.S., Europe, and Asian countries. Our denim line will stay exclusive for now, invite only. We will, however, be running a line of woven sweaters, and hooded pullovers for our top clients, a small run of approximately 40-50.

If you run a boutique and would like our new catalog for spring/summer 06 please feel free to contact me. If you are interested in purchasing our items, again, feel free to contact me, but I digress, let me know what you THINK... I want to know how important exclusivity is to you.

Edited by SongAngel on May 18, 2005 at 07:05 AM

[kiz]

exculsivity for the sake of being exclusive is a little stupid in my opinion. I believe exclusivity within a brand is okay within reason due to factors such as limited capabilities in production due to an extremely high level of quality in the product (see selvage jeans to a degree). Having a "club" of people who you ALLOW to purchase your clothes seems arrogant and I believe that if the market demands outstrip the supply, and production is not increased then you have a market induced exclusivity. Let the market decide how exclusive your product should be. produce enough to let the market judge your products.

[sr20det]

I won't lie, exclusivity does play a factor when I want to purchase something. I think it all stems from the fact that I don't want every single person I meet to be sporting the same thing I'm wearing. BUT, aesthetics is more important to me. The design/construction is more of a factor because you buy what you like. Nobody is going to wear something they just don't like even if it's limited. Case in point, the Asics x Proper GT2. Limited but to be honest, I thought it was gross.

[SongAngel]

The biggest problem with the "make as many as you can" mentality is that it goes against what I believe is sensible for a company. As a consumer, I enjoy the fact that I have a nice new pair of jeans on. If I see someone with the exact same jeans as me, often times I feel less satisfied than if I had someone compliment me on the jeans and not see another soul in them.

This mostly holds true with printed shirts. When I buy a print, I do not want to run into anyone who has the same print shirt. That is an embarrassing situation and often hurts your image.

Here at givingTREE we don't push our product on customers. I was actually only making clothes for myself and a few friends, and it happened to blow up. The shirt fell into the right hands and I started getting calls about them all the time. Since my supply could not meet demand, I made a "waiting list" of sorts. After a year of working very hard and providing these individuals with the product, I wanted something different. So I basically compiled a catalog, with 2 cards in it. Each individual who received the catalog could use the cards to buy 2 items from the catalog. This kept production down, so I would not be overwhelmed by an insurgence of requests and find myself unable to provide for the market.

After a year of that I found it very difficult to explain why I could only make 2 items, how it's only me and a few friends, etc. That is why I'm looking to go mainstream. The way I'd hold it down is that I would only be doing small runs of everything I make. I'd still make 10 different prints, or do color variables or things of that nature, but I would never push to over saturate. Honestly, if I could do this work and not worry about rent or car note, I'd be fine. I'm not in this to make millions or own a house on each continent. I just want to provide a good product, and a product you will love wearing. I've had many individuals come back to me and say "this is my favorite *blank*, I wear it all the time!"

A lot of what people love is what I put into it. I don't just whip out prints; I do wear tests on everything I make, personally. Every item touches my hands and gets my approval before being shipped out. Every piece I hand number, and write where it goes in the logs. I may have to stop doing this, but I will still hand number my items. This is one small way you know you are getting something special.

It's my dedication to quality and comfort that keeps my line small. I like small companies. I don't want to be Abercrombie, not with givingTREE.

I hope you don't think I'm planning on being "oh god" so exclusive you need to camp for days, but I want to be able to approach this right so as not to cause problems like that. I want people who enjoy my product to own it, not hypemongers or resellers. That was all I was asking.

Edited by SongAngel on May 18, 2005 at 07:34 AM

[RedFoxxworth]

Bape is hardly crashing and burning--

To people like us, it probably appears so since it has gone "mainstream." But the amount of money they are going to make now is unfathomable. They have rappers wearing their stuff- now everyone else will follow. It just depends on whether you are out for the paper or to truly have a small and enduring brand.

To answer the exclusivity question, I like having things that are rare simply because I HATE being the guy at the party with the same sneakers or shirt as some other guy- it's just embarassing. However, the exclusive, limited edition thing has almost become commonplace and played, and even if you are doing limited items, I'd stay away from the words "exclusive" and "limited," as they have negative connotations- at least for me. I like "hand made," "small run," or simply a discreet number (1/250 on the tag). I think people will get the picture.

I think the limited edition thing just has an air about it now that its just a scam to get more money from a bunch of suckers. The market is oversaturated and I personally am looking elsewhere for clothes- like items I make myself, vintage items, very small brands, or brands that are very simple with no logos like APC. It sounds like your brand would be the kind of thing I like. I think what's equally important to the "exclusivity" question is where you sell the item. Be retail dictators about where you sell- because it will cheapen your brand immensly if it is seen in a store that's not known as the hottest. If your items are next to some corny brand, you will be forever associated in the eyes of the consumer as being in the same class as that brand.

Just my opinion.

In pajamas, I snuck out to watch Santa, now look at Killa, you gon' watch Santana.

[RedFoxxworth]

Quote:

The biggest problem with the "make as many as you can" mentality is that it goes against what I believe is sensible for a company. As a consumer, I enjoy the fact that I have a nice new pair of jeans on. If I see someone with the exact same jeans as me, often times I feel less satisfied than if I had someone compliment me on the jeans and not see another soul in them.

This mostly holds true with printed shirts. When I buy a print, I do not want to run into anyone who has the same print shirt. That is an embarrassing situation and often hurts your image.

Here at givingTREE we don't push our product on customers. I was actually only making clothes for myself and a few friends, and it happened to blow up. The shirt fell into the right hands and I started getting calls about them all the time. Since my supply could not meet demand, I made a "waiting list" of sorts. After a year of working very hard and providing these individuals with the product, I wanted something different. So I basically compiled a catalog, with 2 cards in it. Each individual who received the catalog could use the cards to buy 2 items from the catalog. This kept production down, so I would not be overwhelmed by an insurgence of requests and find myself unable to provide for the market.

After a year of that I found it very difficult to explain why I could only make 2 items, how it's only me and a few friends, etc. That is why I'm looking to go mainstream. The way I'd hold it down is that I would only be doing small runs of everything I make. I'd still make 10 different prints, or do color variables or things of that nature, but I would never push to over saturate. Honestly, if I could do this work and not worry about rent or car note, I'd be fine. I'm not in this to make millions or own a house on each continent. I just want to provide a good product, and a product you will love wearing. I've had many individuals come back to me and say "this is my favorite *blank*, I wear it all the time!"

A lot of what people love is what I put into it. I don't just whip out prints; I do wear tests on everything I make, personally. Every item touches my hands and gets my approval before being shipped out. Every piece I hand number, and write where it goes in the logs. I may have to stop doing this, but I will still hand number my items. This is one small way you know you are getting something special.

It's my dedication to quality and comfort that keeps my line small. I like small companies. I don't want to be Abercrombie, not with givingTREE.

I hope you don't think I'm planning on being "oh god" so exclusive you need to camp for days, but I want to be able to approach this right so as not to cause problems like that. I want people who enjoy my product to own it, not hypemongers or resellers. That was all I was asking.

Edited by SongAngel on May 18, 2005 at 07:34 AM

--- Original message by SongAngel on May 18, 2005 07:33 AM

Haha... while I was typing you posted this- looks like you said everything I said....

In pajamas, I snuck out to watch Santa, now look at Killa, you gon' watch Santana.

[SongAngel]

I was in the same position as you. I was only buying vintage shirts/jeans (a medium shirt in 1970's is WAY smaller than now, by the way) and was still not satisfied. I looked good in some of it but it was not possible for me to feel "fresh" in 20 year old clothes. This is why we started givingTREE.

red you sound like someone who would appreciate our line. We currently do not have a website, but I do have a bit of product available for anyone interested.

feel free to contact me, via superprivate.

[superslim]

As long as you hold on tight to control of your distribution you will be fine. Stay at more exclusive wholesale accounts, be sure you visit the stores before you do business. Say no to accounts you wouldn't want to shop in. Hold it close to your chest love. You seem smart. You'll be fine. It really is this easy. Companies that end up wacked like Evisu and Bape sold themselves to Ben Sherman and Farell. Maybe the design teams didn't change but the distribution sure did. But I am sure you already know this. Don't worry so much.

I think exclusive matters but style matters just as much. Seeing someone in the same pants as me is not so much of an issue. At the same time I will absolutley not wear any True Religion, 575, 1921, Paper, James, Seven, Duarte, Levi's, etc. So when I see someone with the same pants I think " Right on obviously they know their shit." Besides they are certainly not wearing them the same way as me so who really cares. But I am a girl and for girls pants look different depending on body type so it's easier not to care. It's only partly about the maker, the rest is how good your butt looks. When someone has the same shirt on as me it's a little worse. Especially if it is printed on. For some reason, shirts are more personal. There is nothing better then spotting someone who clearly thinks they are too cool for school wearing the same shirt as someone else in the bar. Calls them right out on their shit. And frnakly, it is embarassing. You are totally right.

Buying exclusive for exclusive sake is easy. You don't have to have style to buy exclusive things, you just have to know something. But buying something mainstream is clearly easier and 100% lame. Having great style and knowing your shit and having really excellent pieces. That's where it's at.

SO to answer your question, if I found your shirt at Opening Ceremony I would think, " huh... who is this now? " and if I liked it I would buy it. And if I saw it 3 months later at Barney's I might be okay with that. But if I saw it 3 months after that at Scoop I'd sell it on e-bay for sure.

I will say that now I really want to know what your shirts look like.

XOXO

[r2]

limited runs are only necessary where quality aside, an item relies on overt labelling or branding which makes it immediately identifiable as being something unique. This is no longer sustainable when its not unique and you start to see it on every street corner. it becomes something which everyone knows and which almost everyone owns. immediately, no one wants it.

items which rely on quality of material, cut and are much more subtle, containing no outward evidence of origin - well, in theory you can produce as many as you like. even then, some clients will still want something which no one else owns.

if you keep small, your product range is flexible you can be much more dynamic, keep more control.. for that reason alone i'd keep it small. sounds like you enjoy what you do, day-to-day.

as for apc - they're a good exmaple - dry jeans / selvage are very popular on this board and most people enjoy the fact that not many others have them. personally, they're not my thing, but even if they were - i can't move right now without seeing someone in a pair of dry jeans. every second guy is wearing them.

in 2 years, when people go off dry jeans, apc will still be sought after whatever line it brings out, because it didn't plaster everyone's butt in a massive symbol which everyone grew to hate.

but really, with respect, its down to you. do whatever will achieve what you want, whether thats making more money, keeping a nice niche brand, whatever you need.

[darknworn]

exclusivity is a number's game, it's all relative. in a city of a few millions like boston, new york or l.a., it's still infintesimal if you print 1000 of the same shirts. bape, as "blown up" as you think they are, i can still go for days wihthout seeing one of their items. but then again, it depends on the crowd as i usually don't hang around the skate/punk/fashionistas crowd.

in my book, exclusivity ranks near the bottom when i buy something. the most important consideration to me is if your products are well designed and crafted. if so, i'd still wear them even if every other bloke has one. personally, i tend to go for classically designed clothing, i.e. without overt branding (actually, i usually remove the tags from my clothing) and gets better with age.

[Serge d Nimes]

I pretty much feel the same as all the rest of the people on the board. I like the comment that with Limited Edition, people don't need to have a sense of style. Hype builds and kills brands, so I guess it is good to keep the fire burning low.

Real vintage is the most exclusive, and that is what I like.

Carpe Denim!

Edited by Serge d Nimes on May 18, 2005 at 09:08 AM

[mouko]

I pretty much agree with the general consensus here.

As an avid ebayer, exclusivity only matters if I plan on reselling it for a profit. This is the only reason I often pick up BAPE stuff and all the other brands kids want to snatch up these days. But for personal style it's all about aesthetics and quality.

I would mention the same as someone before about a printed tee shirt and seeing someone with the same t-shirt would be embarassing, but to be honest I'm over the graphic tee thing and over the whole "being caught with the same piece of clothing" situation. I think it's a bit childish.

[SongAngel]

Quote:

I pretty much feel the same as all the rest of the people on the board. I like the comment that with Limited Edition, people don't need to have a sense of style. Hype builds and kills brands, so I guess it is good to keep the fire burning low.

Real vintage is the most exclusive, and that is what I like.

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on May 18, 2005 08:50 AM

True vintage does not have the same feel for me as a new fresh shirt. The care needed to keep the item intact is far too involved for the average individual, and true vintage items can't stand up to the "wear and tear" of an active lifestyle lead by many.

I enjoy vintage, but please do not think the work I create is vintage or even in the vein of vintagewear. I make 100% original product. A vintage shirt is very nice on certain occasions, but to limit yourself to vintagewear is selling yourself short in my opinion.

and again, I don't shoot for "limited edtion!!!" all over my clothes, and I hope I did not present it as such. It's just as it was with the early greenline brands, there were simply not enough to meet demand, so people began hordeing it. I want my stuff availble while mantaining the integrity of what I'm trying to do with givingTREE. I do not want to be givingTREE x SUPERARTIST x BAPE x NIKE 1 of 2 shirts whatever nonsense. I want to make a shirt that you put on and feels like an old friend, one you wore at your last trip to the beach and rolled around in the sand with your friend in. The shirt she grabs from your droor and steals for days because it's so much a part of you. I want to make every item you buy from me to be loved.

[darkanimal]

I agree with Serge as vintage being the true exclusive, that's why half my wardrobe is. I buy limited sneakers not for the hype but for the design and when I buy them, I don't think about I'm gonna be the only one in my block who will have these on. Especially in New York, it's funny how you can see high end retail shops selling these kicks, only to find it in some shitty backstreet shoe store selling the same stuff. They probably have some mafia connections with the actual factories in Asia. So for me, limited edition is not really limited. Buying deadstock is more like it.

[Serge d Nimes]

Well, when I say vintage, I'm not talking about old shirts. I think that good quality vintage shirts far exceed shirts that are made these days, and you can get, say a deadstock 1960 military grade t-shirt in deadstock condition for less than $10. I think you are going to be a lot more pissed if you drop a stain on an exclusive $100 t-shirt than one that was only $10. I don't think that is being naive at all. And my wardrobe is not limited to vintage gear because I work in a winery and would hate to stain something that is really rare. But when I go out, I usuall wear some Big E levis and a vintage shirt or polo (raglan.)

And I would also like to add that vintage wear not only shows good style, it is a lot of work to find the stuff; sometimes requireing hours or days of shopping to find one cool item. Cheers, Joel

Carpe Denim!

Edited by Serge d Nimes on May 18, 2005 at 09:54 AM

[Teddy Boy Rocker]

Quote:

Well, when I say vintage, I'm not talking about old shirts. I think that good quality vintage shirts far exceed shirts that are made these days, and you can get, say a deadstock 1960 military grade t-shirt in deadstock condition for less than $10. I think you are going to be a lot more pissed if you drop a stain on an exclusive $100 t-shirt than one that was only $10. I don't think that is being naive at all. And my wardrobe is not limited to vintage gear because I work in a winery and would hate to stain something that is really rare. But when I go out, I usuall wear some Big E levis and a vintage shirt or polo (raglan.)

And I would also like to add that vintage wear not only shows good style, it is a lot of work to find the stuff; sometimes requireing hours or days of shopping to find one cool item. Cheers, Joel

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on May 18, 2005 09:49 AM

+1

i have 50s vintage shirts that i've literally spent years trying to find before succeeding

back on topic, i like exclusivity as long as it isnt "manufactured exclusivity"...like someone said, let the market determine whether or not you fall into that category

[Marcus]

I don't think doing small runs will ever be played.

I don't agree on Bape crashing and burning. I think it will keep going and become a new big hiphop/street brand. Especially in the US. But that's just my opninion.

"limited runs" og "exclusive" definitly has an effect on what you buy, whether you want to admit it or not.

But let's face it, most people here would rather walk around in number 35 of SS35th than some Tokyo's or Adicolors.

[giant_ape]

is teenage millionaire still limited?

"Your mom's in my business, she's in my business

Can't you see girl that your mom's trying to end this?"

[Shiv]

^^^^they were avilable at bloomingdales in jersey last year so i guess not

www.ryanleslie.com