Uber-High Fashion - Please Debate

[Whodinihimself]

Good thread...I only skimmed through...and I havent taken any time to think this over...but I know theres tonnes of things that affect the price of clothing that should be note...like:

Manufacturing Processes (do they have be adjusted to make this item?..if so $$$^^^)... (mass produced items vs limited run) And don't forget, these factory guys get paid too..at all levels.

Where its made (makes a huge difference...the more these guys get paid, the more you'll pay eventually)

Shipping and Duties, Tariffs, etc (do you think these things just appear out of thin air with their tags on?....oh that reminds me, tags cost money too...add a few bucks) Duties and Tariffs dont hit mass produced items as hard as smaller runs, because these companies know theyll get their money back quickly due to high turnover rates.... small run designer clothing doesnt have that luxury as there is more of an inherent risk involved once it reaches the end of the supply chain and goes to retail...also, smaller niche = slower turnover rate = risk = pay more $$

Wholesaler and retailer markups (don't just get mad at the retailer, usually its the wholesaler that skims a little more off the top)...but they need to eat too...you should gladly pay their wages if just to keep them in business so that you can keep consuming this crap.

Competition (although this becomes increasingly transparent as the price goes up..which is why higher priced items dont feel the strain of competition as much)

Exclusivity (intangible, but smart designers know how to work this angle...basics of branding: sell the image.......see also: "trends" )

Psychological factors (goes along with exclusivity, except its harder to put a monetary value on because everyone thinks differently...if something makes you look like a million bucks, it should, in-turn, be worth a lot of money....because looking good often leads to girls, opportunities, money, a better lifestyle, happiness (for some) etc...you can't put a price on that....its like the stupid saying goes "dress for the job you want, not the job you have"...its lame, but theirs a nugget of truth in that turd...

theres other economic factors at play that affect the price aswell but its not worth getting into.....you just need to realize that every needs to take a slice of the pie...and the designers do take a hefty slice...but theyre not the only ones at fault.......and dont get it twisted, every designer wants to make more $$$...and would love to mass produce everything they designed....but it wouldnt be efficient if they only sold to a small niche market and a select few boutiques......which is why you see the department store x fashion designer collaborations so often...its a safer way to mass produce their clothing and reach as many regular people as possible and spread awareness...

So...if a $400 t-shirt makes you feel like hot shit...and that confidence leads to the opposite sex noticing you (not the shirt itself mind you)...which leads to hanky panky...or that girl/guy you you had your eye on finally notices you and you get married....or hump....or whatever..or anything you hope would happen in your life happens...you might say the $400 helped you get there...if only for a little while.....so yeah....it might be worth it...even if it isnt

Its like...Sauron, in The Lord Of The Rings....he poured all his hatred and malice into a piece of jewelry...and it became powerful....you might put something similar...or very different into your clothing and it takes on a life of its own...gaining power...and helping you get to where you want to go....and thats worth alot of money to alot of people

[josephr]

but I know theres tonnes of things that affect the price of clothing that should be note...like:...

Exactly. The "value" and "cost" of a garment depends on so much more than the price of its production. Good analysis.

[mouko]

Good thread...I only skimmed through...and I havent taken any time to think this over...but I know theres tonnes of things that affect the price of clothing that should be note...like:

*snip*..

theres other economic factors at play that affect the price aswell but its not worth getting into.....you just need to realize that every needs to take a slice of the pie...and the designers do take a hefty slice...but theyre not the only ones at fault.......and dont get it twisted, every designer wants to make more $$$...and would love to mass produce everything they designed....but it wouldnt be efficient if they only sold to a small niche market and a select few boutiques......which is why you see the department store x fashion designer collaborations so often...its a safer way to mass produce their clothing and reach as many regular people as possible and spread awareness...

*snip*

Truth.

I think most people don't have experience with how much it actually DOES cost to run a brand. I have to admit I only skimmed over this thread (it's certainly massive), but running a high end brand is certainly not cheap. While there is a psychological reason to setting a higher price point, this isn't purely for profit.

As someone starting his own brand right now, you soon realize that once you put together a solid team (that is, good pattern makers, good sample makers, good lawyers, good pr, etc..etc..) they cost a lot of money..and this is BEFORE you even design and factor in the costs of fabrication, production/manufacturing, research, shipment..AND (most importantly) paying yourself as a designer.

It's not simple as saying a designer cashmere sweater can't be justified for being 1500.00 when cashmere can't be THAT expensive (and it can, and the best shirting fabrication in the world for mens dress shirt actually cost more than the most expensive cashmeres..think about that!), the cost of a garment goes beyond how much the fabric costs as Whodinihimself points out even before store markups.

[poly800rock]

But I think everyone has already touched on the fact of some of these designer's craftsmenship, quality, and attention to detail. But for some reason this post keeps coming back to a tee shirt? I can't answer the whole phenomenon about a $300 tee because I have never spent that much on a tee shirt, nor have I purchased anything from Margiela. But I am guilty of buying an $80 sheer long sleeve from Ann as well as a $200 pair of trousers from her as well. Why? Because, as I've said before, I love the quality, fabric, design, and attention to detail in her clothing. I have yet to find another designer that evokes as much emotion in clothing as Ann, 'cept for CCP (Which I have no clothing from).

I think you are indeed right about the absurdness of a $300 tee and there is no doubt someone out there is buying it strictly because it is margiela. But this happens with everything; furniture, cars, realestate, etc.

The thing Tiranis was trying to get at is that some people 'just like it'. Sometimes this is genuinely what a persons' answer is.

I think the problem with this topic is that you have yet to get one of those consumers who buys strictly for the label.

the whole emotion aspect doesn't cut it for me in justifying it, especially if you're considering these designers as artists.

[mouko]

the whole emotion aspect doesn't cut it for me in justifying it, especially if you're considering these designers as artists.

Same. I personally think that's a little bit over analyzing fashion in general. I think its more realistic to chalk up costs as a combonation of production costs and brand image.

[wEstSidE]

i buy cluthing bcuz expensive makes me look cool

[Guest jmatsu]

i buy cluthing bcuz expensive makes me look cool

this comment is true most of the time.

[wEstSidE]

this comment is true most of the time.

damn str8 don't b hatin on a nigga cuz he rok VERSACE n GUCCE jiontz maaaayne

[upandcoming]

i didnt read the whole thing, but fuck paying to be exclusive, and unique. www.etsy.com

all handmade stuff, all you have to do is ask the seller to only make one of the item...There you have it, only 1 produced!

[Vitamian]

I don't subscribe to the notion that clothing is art.

[wEstSidE]

what is it then vitamian? i'd like to know your opinion on it's functions...

[Vitamian]

what is it then vitamian? i'd like to know your opinion on it's functions...

Clothing and fashion is similar to industrial design and artisan goods--beautifully made items with thematic esthetics but produced for an inherent utility. A Leica camera or '30s Mercedes are both intricately designed and pretty but I would characterize neither as art.

Art is inherently devoid of utility. Art provokes a reaction though definitions of art are nebulous--a terrorist attack could be art as could be a Rembrandt. Either one has the potential to provoke a viscerality; Kurt Vonneguet once called the bombing of Dresden art.

[wEstSidE]

ok i c were ur going with that.

is that the cool way to spell 'vonnegut' now or just a strange typo? i'd like to note that for future use.

[Vitamian]

ok i c were ur going with that.

is that the cool way to spell 'vonnegut' now or just a strange typo? i'd like to note that for future use.

I have no idea what the authorized spelling is; it seemed right at the time, like the Iraq war.

[alterion]

Westside given tha you typically spell like a dyslexic goat on acid i would adopt it quickly my droog

[mouko]

Clothing and fashion is similar to industrial design and artisan goods--beautifully made items with thematic esthetics but produced for an inherent utility. A Leica camera or '30s Mercedes are both intricately designed and pretty but I would characterize neither as art.

Art is inherently devoid of utility. Art provokes a reaction though definitions of art are nebulous--a terrorist attack could be art as could be a Rembrandt. Either one has the potential to provoke a viscerality; Kurt Vonneguet once called the bombing of Dresden art.

Fashion is (in the design world) considered an applied art. Basically it has a function (whereas fine arts is purely for intellectual stimulation) I agree with you, calling fashion pure "art" is a bit much, though I think designers can do artistic things with cloth/fashion design.

[the breaks]

I recently bought a Jil Sander long sleeve t on sale for around 20% of the retail price. I have to say had it been even 40% i wouldn't have bought the shirt at all. The fit, while ok, is nothing special and the construction is worse than i've seen on stuff that costs 20 bucks. Still, theres something about the shirt that i can't put my finger on that makes me happy i bought it. I guess it's that 'something' that justifies these purchases, and for some people that sometihng means everything when it comes to clothing.

[Remy]

Clothing and fashion is similar to industrial design and artisan goods--beautifully made items with thematic esthetics but produced for an inherent utility. A Leica camera or '30s Mercedes are both intricately designed and pretty but I would characterize neither as art.

Art is inherently devoid of utility. Art provokes a reaction though definitions of art are nebulous--a terrorist attack could be art as could be a Rembrandt. Either one has the potential to provoke a viscerality; Kurt Vonneguet once called the bombing of Dresden art.

couldnt have been said better. your obviously a very intellectual person, and this descirbes exactly what most of us know at heart about fashion. Thankyou

rep

[Fuuma]

Fashion is (in the design world) considered an applied art. Basically it has a function (whereas fine arts is purely for intellectual stimulation) I agree with you, calling fashion pure "art" is a bit much, though I think designers can do artistic things with cloth/fashion design.

Of course, Art covers rather nebulous grounds at the borders, but for me fashion is perfectly circumvented by the design designation. Fashion design is art with a purpose/art that tackles the problems of modern living.

Disclaimer: This should, in no way, be interpreted as an appeal to practicality above all else.