The Official DENIM Thread.......... Calling Upon Ring Ring, Serge D Nimes et al.

[blueandblack]

thanks ringring (to modest)

yeh cant really find much info about that mill anywhere.

another question in relation to min orders. if a supplier is talking say a min run of 1000 jeans they are talking about one grade arent they for example 32w 33l

if i was to produce a premium jean (like the world needs another f**kn jean label) what sizes are the most common. 28-34w 32-34l ? (36 you too fat?)

how much to you think say "Evisu's" landed in the states incl.duty wholesale for?

denim manufactuing is expensive aint it...

(excuse my ignorance and language)

[Blanc0]

Edited by Blanc0 on May 17, 2005 at 07:42 AM

[ChadR]

What would you say the most gorgous denim is?

I am really liking my JP Da'Mage denim, its beautiful right now, but nothing really that special.

[blueandblack]

thanks blanc0.

helpful info.

yes - might ditch the 28

yeh this denim didnt look to bad at all: http://www.ucospw.be/site.html did you look at physical product samples?

i have money to spend and want to do fairly small run's most likely: 20 pairs of each size. 30-32-34-36. what do you recommend for leg sizes. 30-32-33-34?

that is already 320 pairs of jeans. it is quite exponential - would a mill produce that many pairs of jeans? or would it be not worth it for them? i know im asking an anoying question but what mill in the world would produce the best quality of denim and the smallest run's?

anyone know what mill "prps" are using? that is the scale of quantity we are looking at producing.

[ringring]

Quote:

thanks ringring (to modest)

yeh cant really find much info about that mill anywhere.

another question in relation to min orders. if a supplier is talking say a min run of 1000 jeans they are talking about one grade arent they for example 32w 33l

if i was to produce a premium jean (like the world needs another f**kn jean label) what sizes are the most common. 28-34w 32-34l ? (36 you too fat?)

how much to you think say "Evisu's" landed in the states incl.duty wholesale for?

denim manufactuing is expensive aint it...

(excuse my ignorance and language)

--- Original message by blueandblack on May 4, 2005 06:39 PM

1000 jeans means 1000 pairs per style (sales unit), the sizes can be mixed and all included in the 1000 total.

As Blanc0 said, jeans production is split into 3 parts. The Mill produces the fabric. Then you have sewing and last of all, washing.

BTW 320 pairs is a tiny amount for a jeans manufacturer. Bear in mind that they will throw away many, many pairs just in sampling. (to test shrinkage, sizing and fit, washing etc).

For the other info, like any other business info, it's probably best if you found someone in the business and talked offline with them.

Good luck with whatever you are doing.

[indigo_pete]

If you want to get started, why don't you contact some mills and see what they have in seconds or end-of-runs? Maybe call Cone (Int'l Textiles) in Greensboro, NC. Sometimes there are some real finds there. Don't go to the NY sales staff...they probably won't give you the time of day for 1000 yards every year. Try to find someone in the mill that works in allocation. Specificially you should be looking for off-shade goods. Goods that don't fit in the specified shade range, but at times can actually be better than the target shade!! It's just that they can't sell it to the Citizen's or PDC's of the world. I don't know where PRPS is getting their piece goods, but I would guess Japan. Probably Kurabo.

If you really want to go hard-core, check out Suma or Amhot. They might talk to you because they normally deal in less than 1000 yard runs. If you REALLY want to get loco, contact Interforest in Japan. They rep a lot of 'off the map' mills that might only produce a few hundred yards - but notify Wall Street because you're going to need a MASSIVE loan ($40-100/yard FOB Japan!!).

And remember, most jeans require 1.4-1.6 yards per garment on 58" cuttable. If you're getting into 30" cuttable selvedge styles, you may need 2.8-3.0 yds/gmt. Find a good pattern-maker and sample sewing shop. Nothing's worse than killer fabric in a bad fit!!

[psyiko]

ive read on this board and some others that left hand twill is softer than right hand twill. do some companies knit the right hand twill a little loosely to make it softer? i was just at old navy and it seemed like thats waht they were doing. o, and sadly, old navy is trying to imitate selvedge jeans by sewing the two fuzzy parts down with purple thread.

[Serge d Nimes]

I think it has more to do with the direction of the ring spun weft and weave yarns in conjunction with the direction of the twill. If the denim is woven in the same direction as the yarns are spun, I think you would have a softer (left hand) feel. and if the yarns twist in a opposing direction to the twill, I think the denim would be more coarse. Is this correct Ring Ring?

Carpe Denim!

Edited by Serge d Nimes on May 7, 2005 at 02:08 PM

[Geowu]

hm... right hand is actually more compact than left hand. The coarseness of the left hand gives a softer feeling to it. Not sure though.

[Aotearoa]

I am still considering purchasing a pair of Nudies, however anybody that owns a pair of the Straight Svens is there any chance you could measure the opening of the leg for me......?

I'm not too keen on bootcut jeans, so am thinking of trying the Straight Sven's (These are not bootcut correct?) as opposed to the Regular Ralfs, although there are a lot of nice washes for the Ralfs. It doesn't show on the Nudie website, but I am hoping there are also plenty of washes to choose from for the Straight Sven fit.

Edited by Aotearoa on May 7, 2005 at 07:24 PM

[ringring]

Quote:

I think it has more to do with the direction of the ring spun weft and weave yarns in conjunction with the direction of the twill. If the denim is woven in the same direction as the yarns are spun, I think you would have a softer (left hand) feel. and if the yarns twist in a opposing direction to the twill, I think the denim would be more coarse. Is this correct Ring Ring?

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on May 7, 2005 02:07 PM

That's pretty close.

Most yarns are right-hand spun (Z twist) and the softness effect takes place when the direction of the twill is opposite to the direction of the yarn (ie a regular LH twill). So in theory a left-hand yarn (S twist) woven in a right hand twill would feel the same as a left hand twill.

This is all theory and based on an "if all things are equal" scenario.

In practice, washing, enzymes, fabric softners etc make a greater impact on the handfeel. And you'll find many RH and broken twills that are softer than LH twills.

PS : For you selvedge freaks, Studio D'Artisan have a very nice LH style. Worth a look.

Edited by ringring on May 8, 2005 at 01:18 AM

[blueandblack]

thanks for the advice.

in terms of Kurabo do they actually manufacture jeans or just the denim? anyone have any good links for them (apart from their crap website)

do u know where to find any contact details for Suma, Amhot or Interforest. google wasnt very kind. again do they manufacture jeans or just the denim?

i agree cut is pretty much the most important factor, spending most of my time working on that - worked with lots of other textiles but this is the first time we are venturing into denim.

in terms of detailing anyone have any good info on buttons / flys etc. i hear "ykk" are pretty up there in terms of quality.

thanks again.

[blueandblack]

Quote:

1000 jeans means 1000 pairs per style (sales unit), the sizes can be mixed and all included in the 1000 total. As Blanc0 said, jeans production is split into 3 parts. The Mill produces the fabric. Then you have sewing and last of all, washing. BTW 320 pairs is a tiny amount for a jeans manufacturer. Bear in mind that they will throw away many, many pairs just in sampling. (to test shrinkage, sizing and fit, washing etc). For the other info, like any other business info, it's probably best if you found someone in the business and talked offline with them. Good luck with whatever you are doing.

--- Original message by ringring

yeh - trying to find good contacts but they are hard to come buy.

ringring you obviously have your own things going, but do you do any freelance work? (or just for superfuture ) you seem to be the type of person we are looking for - happy to pay top $$ for your advice. if u are at all interested.

Edited by blueandblack on May 8, 2005 at 07:42 AM

[indigo_pete]

In the US, you can only purchase Kurabo through Olah, Inc.. They're in NYC. Good luck....you better talk a good game. Nice, knowledgable people, but they make their money by talking to Gap, not selling 1000 yards to a start-up. If you've got a good business strategy, they might be able to help you out.

I know some of the guys who started www.handsblue.com . You might be able to pick up more phone numbers and contacts there. It's just starting, but there are a lot of enthusiasts there. Get on the chat site...I think you'll be surprised.

Good business to you!!

[Guest]

blueandblack thanks for your kind offer, I really appreciate it. However, I'd counsel you to save your hard earned $$'s and look for a real person with real qualifications rather than a faceless internet armchair pundit like myself. Be careful who you offer money to. Shop around. It's an important choice to make.

Indigo_pete is right, you're going to have to forge friendly relationships with mills/warehouses in order to get your denim. Cash upfront always helps. For your quantities, I'd look for local production and local washing. Make sure wherever you are getting them sewn, that the sewing line knows how to make jeans, rather than regular pants.

If you are going to venture into doing elaborate washes, (which will sell a lot better than rinse/dry jeans) then be aware that you'll use a LOT of samples up just testing the washes.

PS - YKK rule.

Best of luck to you.

[ringring]

blueandblack thanks for your kind offer, I really appreciate it. However, I'd counsel you to save your hard earned $$'s and look for a real person with real qualifications rather than a faceless internet armchair pundit like myself. Be careful who you offer money to. Shop around. It's an important choice to make.

Indigo_pete is right, you're going to have to forge friendly relationships with mills/warehouses in order to get your denim. Cash upfront always helps. For your quantities, I'd look for local production and local washing. Make sure wherever you are getting them sewn, that the sewing line knows how to make jeans, rather than regular pants.

If you are going to venture into doing elaborate washes, (which will sell a lot better than rinse/dry jeans) then be aware that you'll use a LOT of samples up just testing the washes.

PS - YKK rule.

Best of luck to you.

[Aotearoa]

Quote: I am still considering purchasing a pair of Nudies, however anybody that owns a pair of the Straight Svens is there any chance you could measure the opening of the leg for me......?

I'm not too keen on bootcut jeans, so am thinking of trying the Straight Sven's (These are not bootcut correct?) as opposed to the Regular Ralfs, although there are a lot of nice washes for the Ralfs. It doesn't show on the Nudie website, but I am hoping there are also plenty of washes to choose from for the Straight Sven fit.

Any idea on this anyone....?

I was also reading somewhere the other day that with Levi's 501s if you wanted a more regular fit as opposed to the slimmer fit to go up a size or two. However, wouldn't this make the wasit far too loose and when wearing them with a belt make them bunch up around the waist which feels incredibly uncomfortable....?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[wild_whiskey]

Aotearoa, are you sure the 501 fit is too slim for you as it is? You could go up a size or two and it wouldn't be that horrible. For instance, I can comfortably fit 29, 30, and 31 in Levis. However, I like the slimmest fit possible so I go 29. You could always do the opposite. I suggest trying them on and seeing for yourself.

[Aotearoa]

Sorry, let me reiterate!

What I meant to say was. People who have had a pair of 501s but gone up a size or two, haven't you found the waist to be uncomfortable as when you wear a belt they would be very bunched up...! *I hate it when this happens*

And yes, 501s are a little slim fitting for daily wear for me! So was thinking of this idea, but thinking perhaps people had a way to combat the bunched up feeling of the waist or whether I would have to sacrifice the fit of the leg for the waist being the way it is.

I hope that makes more sense...!

[ringring]

If you are looking at Nudie Svens for a loose straight leg with snug fitting hips and waist, have a glance at Howies OSD. Those JetG jeans by Dry Bones also fit that description.

[Geowu]

-send your 501's to a taylor. It's easy to reduce the waist. (or not)

Edited by Geowu on May 12, 2005 at 01:31 PM

[ringring]

I'd be wary about getting a tailor to reduce the waist on a pair of jeans.

Jeans are unlike regular pants - there's no pleats, darts or centre back waistband seam for the tailor to adjust. Finding an unobtrusive way to reduce the waist size is really difficult. You have to contend with a yoke, plus the position of the pockets. All double stitched or fell seamed. It's a nightmare.

[Aotearoa]

Quote: If you are looking at Nudie Svens for a loose straight leg with snug fitting hips and waist, have a glance at Howies OSD. Those JetG jeans by Dry Bones also fit that description.

Thanks, but I'm not technically looking for a loose fit! Was just wondering about the 501 tip is all.

I like to have a range of different fitting denims for different occasions and different moods. Slimmer for more formal affairs, looser for more dressed down casual affairs etc. Sometimes I do prefer a slimmer jean for casual also. This is why I was looking into the Svens!

[deim23]

Just won this ebay item#8304386783

Any levi heads around can give me some details about this? Did I get a good deal? Is it crap?

I was looking for a vintage denim jacket and this looked pretty cool, but I don't have the greatest knowledge regarding this stuff (or anything for that matter).

"Today's peacock tomorrow's feather duster. "

[Serge d Nimes]

Yeah, that's a good deal. If it has cotton thread it should be pretty nice. The holy grail of Type III jackets is the 557, but that will set you back $150-$300 depending upon condition.

Cheers, Joel

Carpe Denim!

[deim23]

Thanks Serge -

What is meant by "if it hads cotton thread"? Aren't these jackets 100% cotton?

"Today's peacock tomorrow's feather duster. "

[Serge d Nimes]

The later ones are stitched with a poly thread that looks kind of brownish. A lot of later redlines are sitched with the smae type of thread. Ugly IMHO.

Carpe Denim!

[Charlie Delta]

Bumping ages old thread for the sake of it...

[Seething Tortoise]

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

ringring and Serge

blast from the past

I miss them