Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[blank]

first of all levi's is not suing anyone over cut or fit. its over a few details. specifically the red tab, the arcuate, and the two horse tab. read the whole thread next time. btw most of these companies are not copying these details exactly but rather referencing them in some pretty cool and clever ways something that is done all the time in fashion and art.

secondly, i believe that levi's should actually be a little more forgiving with these companies that are respecting and honoring levi's place in denim history and are reproducing an article of clothing that has historical and cultural significance. historical and cultural significance that levi's ignored until others showed that there is a market and a desire to honor that history.

yeah i think that most (if not all) of these companies, faced with eventual and inevitable legal action, would have complied willingly. levis could have insisted on the stoppage of the infringements and given a reasonable timeline so that retailers (who, by the way, are not making gobs of money, but rather, selling products that they clearly care about and filling a niche that no one else has filled) would not be so drastically affected.

instead of suing small retailers they could have approached the companies and retailers and come to some kind of agreement. i believe that all parties would have complied willingly in the face of certain destruction.

the cut, denim, and other details (hidden rivets, thread color etc..) are outside of levis reach.

you really should know all the facts, as well as the context of said facts, before you make an argument that you really are unprepared to make.

first of all, i haven't read the lawsuit and you probably haven't either, so neither of us is truly qualified to say what is and isn't in the suit.

but i did read the whole thread -- if the issue was as simple as the arcuate and the red tab, then why are so many people calling levi's "evil's" and threatening to boycott? if it was about the cut and the construction and the hidden rivets then it wouldn't matter what was on the back pockets. this thread is wrought with vitriol toward levi's: if it was as simple as a SMALL TAG and BACK POCKET STITCHING then you could lock the thread. but it's not, everyone is seeing it as something more.

levi's owes these companies absolutely nothing. they've been wantonly ripping the levi's trademark details for years. if their

[Panda-san]

Kinda random, but what about the 4chan denim project that was mentioned a while back? It had the two little cats pulling apart a pair of jeans. Is Levis capable of going after a group of individuals on a Japanese message board for infringing on their trademarks? Would they even bother with something on that small of a scale?

[drapygo]

I have ordered one right now actually well, not right now but havn't payed, but have ordered..................................................... I was going to post pictures and all that. But nooooooooooo, this had to happen, I e-mailed the person about this, and I'll post what he has to say tomorrow. It's 2chxdenimproject, btw. His next project was a LEVI'S repro, but that might change now...

[airfrogusmc]

first of all, i haven't read the lawsuit and you probably haven't either, so neither of us is truly qualified to say what is and isn't in the suit.

but i did read the whole thread -- if the issue was as simple as the arcuate and the red tab, then why are so many people calling levi's "evil's" and threatening to boycott? if it was about the cut and the construction and the hidden rivets then it wouldn't matter what was on the back pockets. this thread is wrought with vitriol toward levi's: if it was as simple as a SMALL TAG and BACK POCKET STITCHING then you could lock the thread. but it's not, everyone is seeing it as something more.

levi's owes these companies absolutely nothing. they've been wantonly ripping the levi's trademark details for years. if their

Levis has every right to protect their trade mark. Like some thrying to use Cokes bottle shape. Lee and Wrangler found their own voice. Its really hard to be original and much easier to copy.

[hideout]

first of all levi's is not suing anyone over cut or fit. its over a few details. specifically the red tab, the arcuate, and the two horse tab. read the whole thread next time. btw most of these companies are not copying these details exactly but rather referencing them in some pretty cool and clever ways something that is done all the time in fashion and art.

secondly, i believe that levi's should actually be a little more forgiving with these companies that are respecting and honoring levi's place in denim history and are reproducing an article of clothing that has historical and cultural significance. historical and cultural significance that levi's ignored until others showed that there is a market and a desire to honor that history.

it may be "respecting and honoring" in your point of view, but levi's could very easily say that they are infringing their property and taking away part of their market.

[thelion1856]

WOW! i just placed an order for a pair of Samurai blacks and a pair of Flat Heads. thanks kiya!

[Panda-san]

I have ordered one right now actually well, not right now but havn't payed, but have ordered..................................................... I was going to post pictures and all that. But nooooooooooo, this had to happen, I e-mailed the person about this, and I'll post what he has to say tomorrow. It's 2chxdenimproject, btw. His next project was a LEVI'S repro, but that might change now...

Bah, that's right, 4chan is the US image board.

[cultpop 0217]

first of all, i haven't read the lawsuit and you probably haven't either, so neither of us is truly qualified to say what is and isn't in the suit.

but i did read the whole thread -- if the issue was as simple as the arcuate and the red tab, then why are so many people calling levi's "evil's" and threatening to boycott? if it was about the cut and the construction and the hidden rivets then it wouldn't matter what was on the back pockets. this thread is wrought with vitriol toward levi's: if it was as simple as a SMALL TAG and BACK POCKET STITCHING then you could lock the thread. but it's not, everyone is seeing it as something more.

levi's owes these companies absolutely nothing. they've been wantonly ripping the levi's trademark details for years.

actually IT IS all about a "small tag" and "back pocket stitching" as well as details on the leather patch. nothing more. sugarcane was asked to remove the arcuates and red tabs on their domestic models a while back and they did so and are now legally in compliance. i don't know where you get that this is about anything else. you seem to be the only one who sees it as "something more".

and what you call "wantonly ripping" some see as an homage. they are reproductions after all. no one was claiming these details as anything but a historically acurate reference to vintage levi's.

levi's is the one acting wantonly (to be behave extremely cruelly and brutally) in this situation. i never said they did not have the right to protect their "trademarks" only that they could have been a little less hardline about it.

fascists.

[watchman]

that is so so insane. I can't believe it. Why would they do that? we should boycott levis honestly, it isn't like this will inspire customer loyalty

[drapygo]

Or, we can all wear a T-Shirt saying "LEVI'S are sellouts" like red said.

[sidneylo]

WOW! i just placed an order for a pair of Samurai blacks and a pair of Flat Heads. thanks kiya!

He got more flat heads in? Damn.

[Dick Danger]

I'd be 99% of levis customers never heard of the japanese brands.

[airfrogusmc]

Heres an idea why don't these Japanese companies come up with their own original pocket arcuates and pocket label placement nad maybe in 50 years people would be making repros of their stuff?

[poly800rock]

via wikipedia:

2002

Iverson allegedly threw his wife Tawanna out of the mansion during a fight. The following night, an enraged Iverson later went looking for his wife at his cousin's apartment. His cousin wouldn't let him in (Iverson was the one who paid the rent for the house). According to the police report, Iverson repeatedly threatened to kill his cousin Charles Jones and Jones's roommate while showing them a semi-automatic gun. Iverson was arrested and charged with 14 different counts. All charges were ultimately dropped after conflicting testimonies from witnesses.

ps- I didn't mean to derail the thread.

i fucking love iverson...even though he's left philly for denver, i'll show him nothing but love...

[LeatherSeatBelt]

i guess levis just wanted to END THE COMPETITION! XD

[Panda-san]

Heres an idea why don't these Japanese companies come up with their own original pocket arcuates and pocket label placement nad maybe in 50 years people would be making repros of their stuff?

Sugar Cane has been putting their own orignal pocket design on the Edo Ai/Hawaii/Okinawa models for a while now. BiG had them. Personally, I think they're ugly. If I hadn't been able to get Edo Ais and Hawaiis with the arcuate, I wouldn't have bought them. My favorite detail on the Hawaiis though--and I'm sure I'll feel the same on the Edo Ais when I get them--is the green "'canes" tab on the back pocket.

[Chicken]

levi's owes these companies absolutely nothing. they've been wantonly ripping the levi's trademark details for years. if their

blank, i think you've brought up some good points, but i question few of the things you are saying.

at this point, i would like to bring up a friendly reminder, that without the japanese repros and enthusiasts, lvcs might not even exist the way they do right now. as a matter of fact, i know of many people who got into vintage levi's because of the repros. otherwise, many of them would have been content with gap, diesel or any other random department store jeans.

also a reminder, that levi's was already in big trouble long before these repro companies were even known in the united states. (remember silvertab?)

if the japanese denim companies have only been wantonly ripping off levi's trademark, i'm sure they would be regarded no higher than the louis vuitton ripoffs or fake rolex's (or the thai levi's ripoffs for that matter). but they aren't some random fakes. they're pretty good.

i think the great irony about levi's going after toyo enterprise/sugar cane, is that they might be going after their own number one fans. the sugarcanes are probably one of the most faithful repros out there.

and, as an old saying goes: imitation is the highest form of flattery.

but, they do have every right to protect their own trademarks and identity. or, at least try. i, for one, am not going to dispute that.

but the irony is there.

[defiance]

If Levi's produced jeans half as good as most of these Japanese brands, they wouldn't even need to worry much. Trying for denim monopoly, perhaps.

[sriracha hot sauce]

Kiya, can I still buy a pair of jeans before friday the 19th? That sucks, because Im in the city and still havent had a chance drop the shop.

[cultpop 0217]

Heres an idea why don't these Japanese companies come up with their own original pocket arcuates and pocket label placement nad maybe in 50 years people would be making repros of their stuff?

im suprised that you, of all people, are completely missing the point of why these companies used these indicators in the first place. we know you love LVC but unfortuantely the japanese have been beating levis at their own game quality-wise for a while now. i checked out the current crop of lvc at the levi's flagship last weekend and was not overly impressed, especially for the price they were asking. we should actually not be suprised that levis is so miffed.

but i do hope these companies come up with something iconic and develop a more fully realised identity in the wake of all this. i love vintage levi's as much as anyone (just look at my screen name) but these japanese companies will be better off without the tired (and possibly undeserved) nostalgia.

[cultpop 0217]

blank, i think you've brought up some good points, but i question few of the things you are saying.

at this point, i would like to bring up a friendly reminder, that without the japanese repros and enthusiasts, lvcs might not even exist the way they do right now. as a matter of fact, i know of many people who got into vintage levi's because of the repros. otherwise, many of them would have been content with gap, diesel or any other random department store jeans.

also a reminder, that levi's was already in big trouble long before these repro companies were even known in the united states. (remember silvertab?)

if the japanese denim companies have only been wantonly ripping off levi's trademark, i'm sure they would be regarded no higher than the louis vuitton ripoffs or fake rolex's (or the thai levi's ripoffs for that matter). but they aren't some random fakes. they're pretty good.

i think the great irony about levi's going after toyo enterprise/sugar cane, is that they might be going after their own number one fans. the sugarcanes are probably one of the most faithful repros out there.

and, as an old saying goes: imitation is the highest form of flattery.

but, they do have every right to protect their own trademarks and identity. or, at least try. i, for one, am not going to dispute that.

but the irony is there.

10/10

.....

[knucks]

well that sucks. wait shit, majorly sucks. what's the point of me going to self edge if i go to san fran in february

[Decades]

Anyone know if we can still place orders with Selfedge by friday and be alright?

[Dick Danger]

I don't think so.

[truestorytravis]

You could call self edge, but LA Guy on the other SF and the guy I talked to at Self Edge said that they would be selling the stuff until they closed tonight. I would call just to be sure though.

edit: big thanks to LA Guy for posting that tidbit because i might not have thought to order otherwise.

[PG2G]

I agree with you Chicken, but I don't think any business in the world is going to allow fans (regardless of how flattered they are) hurt profits. The most recent example I can think of is a group of people were making a Halo RTS game. Microsoft put a stop to it because they had their own Halo RTS game coming. Its perfectly logical to me Levi's has their own 1947, and their own 1966, why should they let fans make their own (even if its superior)?

[Dick Danger]

That's what the guy told me, today was the last day.

[airfrogusmc]

im suprised that you, of all people, are completely missing the point of why these companies used these indicators in the first place. we know you love LVC but unfortuantely the japanese have been beating levis at their own game quality-wise for a while now. i checked out the current crop of lvc at the levi's flagship last weekend and was not overly impressed, especially for the price they were asking. we should actually not be suprised that levis is so miffed.

but i do hope these companies come up with something iconic and develop a more fully realised identity in the wake of all this. i love vintage levi's as much as anyone (just look at my screen name) but these japanese companies will be better off without the tired (and possibly undeserved) nostalgia.

No I don't think I am missing the point, Levis like any company has the right to protect their trade mark. If these other companies don't infringe on that trade mark everything's cool. If they do Levis has not only the right but the responsibility to take them to court. That has absolutely nothing to do with any other issue.

[grunhauser]

I am very disappointed with Levi's decision to sue, but I would not panic though. This not a very good move on their part. They should have solved all issues quitely, under the table. Instead, they chose to go kaboom on Japanese denim and the effect is going to be completely opposite. With few changes your beloved brands will back and stronger than ever. Just wait till word gets out about some kind of Japanese pants Levi's is banning from US.

In the meantime we should support our denim prophets by shopping in their stores and often. Cheers.

[thelion1856]

naw thats a bitch move on levis. its a jelousy issue because levis is such a huge monster company with stockholders and shit while these japanese companies are small and recently starting and they are making a far better quality repro of levis. Fuck levis, you can defend those faggets all you want but to fuck with the new guy like they are is fucking bullshit.

its like the old drug dealer on the block who is selling low quality drugs and loosing customers to the new guy with a much higher quality product and then getting pissed and snitching on that new dealer so he can get back his own market.