Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[jwied82]

this kinda makes me want a pair of flat heads... of all the repro companies, they appeal to me most (like the arcuate best).

I guess this all is delaying BiG getting theier skulls up on the website..

[Panda-san]

im just saying if sugar cane wants to drag it out, Toyo Co.(not saying just the sugar cane branch) has the resources. However I doubt it will happen as they have previously complied

I wonder if the introduction of the SC Union Stars has anything to do with this? Perhaps Toyo had advance notice, and wanted to get a truly original design on the market so that when this happened, they wouldn't have to pull ALL of their products.

If that were the case, they wouldn't be totally crippled, since they'd still have Union Stars and 1945s on the shelves.

[brozek]

Imperial wasn't named, don't have the arc or tab, and don't make repros, but the tag certainly falls under the no-no list

[Tarmac]

Honestly, they (japanese manuf.) are probably wrong. If they have any kind of in-house legal counsel, even they would tell them they are wrong. So I'm pretty sure they have no interest in fighting it.

[alm8319]

Here, while we may think these jeans superior, a court is likely to see it as levis having spent billions of dollars over more than a century to create a brand (certain pocket arcuate and tabing) that small japanese companies are now profiting off of. Kind of makes sense.

As far as compliance, for things like this, most countries throughout the world are members of the World Intellectual Property Association (? i think thats what the A is), or WIPA. It was founded in the 1920's i believe for this exact reason. What good is it for a German writer to be able to protect his song lyrics if someone could just go to Austria and use them without his permission. Same as what good would it be for a Japanese denim company to be able to protect its jeans in Japan but not in Korea, so the products could be made in Korea and brought into Japan. Thats why all WIPA countries, which Japan and the US are, enforce each other's court decisions.

[poly800rock]

let's call the yakuza to start breaking some arms....

[fallen angels]

damn... so Levi's is suing Self Edge, but according to that 3sixteen interview, Levi's wants to make a jean for Self Edge too. ...

I asked their attorney group about that last night and they basically said "Levi's legal department and creative department don't interact with each other"

so who knows...

interesting, so i guess the question now is... does Self Edge still want to make a jean with Levi?

im a big fan of japanese specialty denim, but i'm also a levi fan. i got this internal conflict thing going on now...

[poly800rock]

i was a big levi's fan until they moved everything abroad...now they're just like every other company...

[minya]

Holy crap.

[VeeArSix]

All your base are belong to LEVIS

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

[sidneylo]

Holy crap.

*in child-like voice*

Miiiinnnnyaaaaa.... doooo something about this! Mod down Levis!!!! Miiiiiiiiinnnnyaaaaaaa.

/pleaforjustice

[40ozprophet]

WIPA = world intelectual property agreement?

[wild style]

Dang.

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[khaltire]

Emailed my pal Toshiko at Samurai, thought you guys might find this interesting

"Dear Khalid

Thank you for your mail.

I have already heard the new about levis.

But, I am not sure yet what Levis is going to do.

Now, we are investigating it now, so I can not say something about it.

Even if something happen, or we have to change something like red tag or

so, we never stop making SAMURAI JEANS with high quality.

I think there is a way.

Thank you for worrying about SAMURAI JEANS.

Sincerely yours.

Toshiko"

Gotta love that... No matter what, they are dedicated to making jeans, at whatever the cost (with a few minor adjustments of course).. one of the reasons I love the Japanese denim market so much is they dont seem to be in it for the profit as much as say Levis (hence the sueing), or Nudie.. That would explain why the quality is SO good, whereas the other brands mentioned can be subpar just to make a quick profit.

[40ozprophet]

I don't thinkn anyone really expected them to just stop, but it is nice to hear soem reasurrance.

[sidneylo]

Dear Khalid

Thank you for your mail.

I have already heard the new about levis.

But, I am not sure yet what Levis is going to do.

Now, we are investigating it now, so I can not say something about it.

Even if something happen, or we have to change something like red tag or

so, we never stop making SAMURAI JEANS with high quality.

I think there is a way.

Thank you for worrying about SAMURAI JEANS.

Sincerely yours.

Toshiko"

Damn, that e-mail was deep. Made me tear up for a sec.

[blake]

actually you can. the only thing they have going for them is that their trademarks on the red tab and back pocket stitching are old as shit. you could NEVER get a trademark for something like that today, -especially- in apparel.

they would lose in court, but it would take a monumental opponent to be match them in terms of the cash you need to fight a protracted, multi-year copyright infraction lawsuit, somebody like diesel maybe (though that would never happen because of they have no interest in doing red tabs).

look at microsoft vs. apple.

as I said before they are the OLDEST still in existance.

[Ahlvahroe]

white and different placing.

not the japanese, only european

Jan 19 as in 1/19/2007.

anyway, time for the Lee jean revolution

yes, i hella like the evisu and sda lee repros, but the latter seems a bit hard to find. and as i have said before the samurai lee-pros i am wearing are awesome.

look at the bright side...

now those jean companies can get more creative and break away from under Levi's shadow.

It's the begining, not the end.

hopefully it a renaissance and not a downfall

[Paul T]

It's trademarks that Levi's claim are being infringed. The arcuate and the two horse patch are trademarked in Japan - I have been told that the red tag isn't.

I'm sure SC and other knew they were sailing close to the wind, and I imagine there's not a lot they can do.

TO be fair to Levi's this isn't new. Their rigid enforcement of their trademarks has contributed to Levi's survival as a company. But I wish they would put as much effort into upholding the quality of their LVC range as they have on this legal action. Many people have turned to Japanese competitors precisely because LVC don't produce the models, or the finishes, that people want.

[ayn]

I'd give Toshiko mad rep points if he was a member here! haha... holy shit!! i like that!

[Double D]

In other news, Nike plan on paying Nigo a visit tomorrow. They want their trainer designs back.

[poly800rock]

I'd give Toshiko mad rep points if he was a member here! haha... holy shit!! i like that!

isn't toshiko a she?

[LA Guy]

I would like to know more, especially how levis can stop the sales in Japan. Even if these are small companies I don't see how they would just give up without a fight.

1) Levis Japan is very big,

2) Levi's would win the court case, in all likelihood.

3) These companies would go bankrupt fighting this in the courts.

[ayn]

so sorry, no idea, my bad... s/he/she/g

[Astérix]

The fact that these are outlawed (to some extent) make them slightly more desirable to me!

[giantreptile]

it was fun while it lasted.

i wonder what tipped the Levi company lawyers off? was it superfuture? was it newspaper/magazine articles? was it the SE/BiG stores?

[andewhall]

Wow, this is so interesting and big....denimgate....sheesh. Its good to hear from the sammy guy, amazing and Paul T, well put indeed. Keep on keeping on Kiya! Its like a great new start in a way, new denim details coming out and I can imagine a few years down the track all your guys Japanese repros will be somewhat valuable?

EDIT: I can understand the acurate and the leather patch design....but I am having a hard time dealing with the "Tag sewn between 2 peices of fabric on back pockets"....thats really quite amazing. Is it meant to be around both back pockets? Dont atelier la durance have a tag sewn into the bottom of their back pocket? Those Edwins etc?

[40ozprophet]

^^^ lol all about the investment eh?

[minya]

it was fun while it lasted.

i wonder what tipped the Levi company lawyers off? was it superfuture? was it newspaper/magazine articles? was it the SE/BiG stores?

I don't think it was any one thing... the availability / visibility / profile of Japanese denim has been rising steadily for a while now. No doubt superfuture, BiG, Selfedge, the articles, etc. all had an effect but I'm sure Levis has had this in their pipeline for a while now.

[minya]

(btw, is Blanc0 reading this thread?... if you are, post your thoughts...)