Take the fake PRPS challenge...

[thegashman]

Hi

Very new to the "superdenim" scene and I think I've been a trifle rash and naive and purchased some fake PRPS from ......you guessed it, eBay. The seller is an individual with 100% feedback, no other items for sale and assured me that they were genuine. However, when they arrived I was pretty shocked. If this is high quality denim then I'm sticking with my Wranglers (joke!!)

I know it's rude an' all on our first date, but would any of you real indigo-gurus be able to spare 5 minutes to take a look at my pics and let me know what you think?

http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l317/thegashman/PRPS/

I've also spoken to Laura at Indigofera (PRPS European distribution) who kindly offered to take a look also. I've asked them for some advice on writing an eBay guide warning of the pitfalls of buying PRPS so I can help others avoid the same mistake (that's assuming that there are other gullible people out there like me).

Thanks very much for your time, Jason

[minya]

Basically 95% of the Prps on eBay are fake. We've had a couple other threads about this -- do a search and there's some good information.

[poly800rock]

i honestly don't think enough members on this board own prps to be good judges..

[__3xL]

If you bought heavily distressed PRPS fakes what makes you know anything about " high-end denim " at all really though ?

that's what I wanna know because Zimbabwe cotton alone doesn't constitute high end ...

Besides my personal opinion though - why did you state that you bought fakes but then go on to say you are asking us if they are and someone from PRPS if they are fakes ..

what made your light bulb go off that they were cheaply made " low-end" fakes ?

[poly800rock]

If you bought heavily distressed PRPS fakes what makes you know anything about " high-end denim " at all really though ?

that's what I wanna know because Zimbabwe cotton alone doesn't constitute high end ...

i wouldn't put the fact that distressed anything isn't highend. not many companies use zimbabwe cotton, so in that sense, the knowledge of the cotton source is more of an indicator than the distressed part..

[diewhitegirls]

I know nothing about PRPS, but they look fine to me. By fine, I mean it doesn't seem like there are any glaring stitching errors. Unless those fakes are getting really good, in which case, I'm lost.

Anyway, if you want high end denim, I would recommend going the raw route. There are certainly some exceptions to the rule (Dior, for example), but for the most part distressed jeans that cost a good chunk ($200+) are going to be blah compared to the raw counterparts.

Just my $.02.

[Circanineteen85]

Ok, from what I've read about fake PRPS, there should be only 2 snaps on the waist adjustment, if I remember correctly the inside of the snaps, the rivets, and the buttons are supposed to be stamped with something (but of course I'm drawing a blank), the purple tab should be sewn on the pocket not under it, the back leather patch should be leather not pleather (Yours appears to be pleather as it looks to have white edges), and the paper tag thats attached is supposed to be all crinkly. My guess would be fake, but ofcourse thats only a guess.

I own a pair of grey fakes, and I like them though even though they're fake because they're extremely soft and sometimes I just want to wear a pair of jeans that aren't made of concrete... and they're a nice shade of grey and even if they're fake they've still got nice details like the fact that the back pockets are actually lined (unlike my fake evisus (I was really dumb when I first started getting into higher end denim)), the knee darts look cool (thats all darts really do right?), and they have the correct pocket bags and all that jazz. It was speculated back during the peak of fake PRPS (on the board... I dunno about the real world as where I live you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's ever even heard of PRPS) that these had to have been made in the same factory or something because so many details are the same.

[ikidomari]

I believe there was a huge fuss about the eBay PRPS thing.

Having both seen the real thing and also curiously sniping a pair on eBay, I can tell you that they are fake.

All the details on the fake pair are kinda accurate, but not completely. At least they have the camo pockets and multicolor button fly. The waist snaps on the fake pair (if it has it) have three snaps on each side. The real pair has only two.

The denim on the real pair is much heavier and tougher, almost rough in touch, unlike the fake pair's smooth light denim. In fact, if you see the real thing, you can simply tell by how nice the denim is. The distressing and wash (especially) on the fake pair are also horribly reproduced and tame and are completely nothing like the real ones. The sad leather label on the waist is also a dead giveaway as real prps tags are made of better shit than that thin shiny pleather crap.

[derdankhund]

These are definitely fake...first big clue is the three snaps instead of two.

Basically, if you are going to spend less than $200 on ebay, chances are you're getting fakes...

[__3xL]

i wouldn't put the fact that distressed anything isn't highend. not many companies use zimbabwe cotton, so in that sense, the knowledge of the cotton source is more of an indicator than the distressed part..

I didn't say that the pre-distressed part was any of an indicator poly , just that in a sense if he was shopping for "high-end" denim he should have a high-end sensibility of what he is buying - which 99% of pre-distressed is not at all ..

I only mentioned the cotton source because it imho is the only thing setting prps in it's own class .. I seriously doubt it is BETTER at all than any run of the mill cotton , but I'm sure on genuine prps that it's woven to a higher standard ..

speaking in the average denim buyers mind state - no one is wearing them day in and day out and expecting the zim cotton to hold up better than any other denim maker that puts effort into making their jeans a quality product ...

It's just a luxury detail that stands out more to a buyer ... it's DIFFERENT is all imho ...

only reason I even think the raw prps onewash or whatever is sexy is the purple selvage .. I wouldn't buy them based on just that though - just to have them ...

though having them would be nice of course ... definately not a major selling point to someone like myself who has learned with MUCH help from this board that everything that glitters isn't gold ... Everything that stands out does not have any special PuRPoSe ...

and my take on pre-distressed is why the fuck spend MORE money on jeans that have LESS actual real denim characteristic like deep dark indigo - besides the art of completely molding your jeans to be YOUR jeans from raw state of course ...

thegashman If I sounded like a dick ...? good ... Just making the point that without appreciating what you're buying by KNOWING what you're buying and wanting that label to be on your ass - your missing the point of " high-end " all the way ..

Your 1st date is a flop - please tell whoever set you up on this blind date to never do you that favor again .. ;-)

stick around though SF is the place to be

[minya]

I didn't say that the pre-distressed part was any of an indicator poly , just that in a sense if he was shopping for "high-end" denim he should have a high-end sensibility of what he is buying - which 99% of pre-distressed is not at all ..

This is absurd. There's nothing inherently inferior about distressed jeans. I, personally, am getting really sick and tired of stiff-as-iron undistressed jeans. Is it true that more often than not, distressed jeans look shitty? Yes. That doesn't mean there aren't some great washes out there.

and my take on pre-distressed is why the fuck spend MORE money on jeans that have LESS actual real denim characteristic like deep dark indigo - besides the art of completely molding your jeans to be YOUR jeans from raw state of course ...

I hope you know you sound like a Nudie marketing machine, man.

[6MT]

actually all the african cotton is so cheap right now on the market due the unfairtrade and american cotton farmer dump on the international market right now, there is no reason for JP denim (both jean and fabric) to be so expensive, to my opionion its expensive to the degree it's stupid

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6256274

[PG2G]

PRPS denim quality is probably second only to 5EP, when it comes to stuff readily available in the states, IMO.

[coleslawyum]

Doesn't PRPS have purple selvedge?

[purplerocket]

Back on topic. If you searched through this site you've already found what you needed that's what I did and made my decision NOT to purchase on Ebay.

Fake PRPs don't use real leather patch, like the one shown in your photo. Tell-tell sign is the outer rim of the patch which is white on fakes.

I've got couple of PRPs and have to say they're more comfy than my Samurais, Studios, Levis, Nudies and etc.

[__3xL]

These theads are menacing as hell and why I mentioned he sounds like he doesn't know what never to ask ...

not at all though really but they're still YOUR jeans - what are you going to do with them ?

Hand them down to someone ?

Reseller of PURCHASED fake prps !! Hell yes or helllloo to the n-o ??

[__3xL]

This is absurd. There's nothing inherently inferior about distressed jeans. I, personally, am getting really sick and tired of stiff-as-iron undistressed jeans. Is it true that more often than not, distressed jeans look shitty? Yes. That doesn't mean there aren't some great washes out there.

I hope you know you sound like a Nudie marketing machine, man.

Dayum Minya tu Pina ... Soooo k lookie you sheethead for it all .. PLEASE relax .. smoke some haze already

Only 8-15 jean makers that WE ALL AT SUPERFUTURE are at least familar with somewhat do distressed jeans like real ... and there are 90 more bullshit jeans that are not worth anything but to wear ( like I have Levi's reds and some Loomstate mission and dress/casual trousers dude .. ) not that those are BS but distressed yes

like the $25 dollar come ups and tons of tees and shit ..

Don't make me slide the pimp stompa you boots on erryone ..

They are THAT serious (w/ RiRi M60 zips standard also ! )

yeah the one zippers that are like $40 a pair or something ...

Oh you know who makes pre-distressed like technique and NOT full count pre-distressed ? sam etc .... cuz they actually look WORN in .. all I can see on Rakuten jp besides those HANDFUL ....

Earnest Sewn imho ..

can i uh have my own in my own opinion ....

Min quoted my opinion on the wear n tear put on jeans lol ..

Yeah I am taking this TOO far it belongs in superAdvisory for fake checks ....

i wiiiishhh ..

[herpsky]

I'm getting back to one-wash denim.

I love my imperial lback washed dukes.

[__3xL]

yea I'm twisted off haze n Henn ...

happy turkey day all !

[thegashman]

Wow, big response. OK:

Minya - thanks for the response. I did a lot of trawling through the forums and was still really unsure, which is why I thought of taking loads of pics, getting opinions and then leaving that as a reference for any other unlucky souls in the same position as myself. I'm big on altruism!

Numero_uno_3xl - you didn't sound like "a dick" (a wiener maybe ), but I knew I was in for a grilling, which is why I did a lot of Googling and thinking before I posted. Thanks for your reply though, ALL comments were gratefully received and you've given me my biggest tip so far, "molding your jeans to be YOUR jeans from raw state". That really struck a chord wth me, so thanks

I did state that, "I think I've been a trifle rash....", but to answer your question, my lightbulb went off when I actually saw and felt them. They had the same look and feel as any cheap pair of £10 ($20) jeans you'd get from the market. Cheap looking denim, details and stitching and certainly not something I woud imagine shelling out £289 for, which is what they were advertised as originally costing the seller.

Thanks also to ikidomari and derdankhund and everyone else.I just wanted to state that I'm also NOT a "just for the label" man. I'd read about PRPS on www.beinghunted.com a while back and came across them on eBay last month. It was only after all the Googling post-purchase that I found out more about all the hassle with prevalent fakes and how they're Brad Pitt's favourite jeans (errr, who cares?!).

Finally, I did speak with PRPS distributors, Indigofera. They asked me what P style number was on the inside tag. I said the only number on that tag was 100964. She laughed and said, "No that's not a PRPS number. It should be P29 xxxx, or P30 xxxx etc". This denotes the season and style of the jeans. For example, it is shown on the PRPS pages at Newton Store website - eg http://newton-store.com/?pid=284439 at the bottom it saysStyle No.P29P01B

With the other info about my jeans having 3 waist poppers instead of 2, dodgy leather patch, incorrect positioning of the purple tage etc, this ties in with what I'd heard about a loophole in the trademark laws that allows manufacturers to produce copies as long as there are 7 points of difference. I am a bit vague on this as it is hearsay, so shoot me down if I'm totally wrong.

So far we have:

1. Inside tag has no P number

2. 3 waist poppers instead of 2

3. Pleather patch (PRPS also said they stopped using the "rising sun" design 18 months ago)

4. Purple tag under instead of on pocket

5. Rivets are different

6. Possible different camo pocket bag design (?)

Indigofera asked for some full length shots of the jeans to get an idea of the quality of the wash and the tone of the fabric. I'll post those in the same folder as my original photos later today and update you again.

Thanks again everyone - great site! Cheers, Jason

[sybaritical]

Quoting:

Finally, I did speak with PRPS distributors, Indigofera. They asked me what P style number was on the inside tag. I said the only number on that tag was 100964. She laughed and said, "No that's not a PRPS number. It should be P29 xxxx, or P30 xxxx etc". This denotes the season and style of the jeans. For example, it is shown on the PRPS pages at Newton Store website - eg http://newton-store.com/?pid=284439 at the bottom it saysStyle No.P29P01B

Thanks, this is interesting.

[__3xL]

The summary of what I was saying now that I've came down is that your noob status begged for the simple questions of ~~~ why ask us anyways cause you're stuck with them and you seem to KNOW they are knock offs and ~~ why not just wear them to fuck up terribly if you don't like them and can't get a refund for them .. like as your who gives a damn I just got mad ajax spots on them while scrubbing my bathtub ..

if they were cheap enough .. like " make the best of a bad situtation noob "

yea that was it lol

I had fun last night ...

today is back to business

[zephyr11]

most def fakes, mine (got from antonioli in milan), have a proper leather patch, imprint of the size on the inside pocket, 2 button snaps on the waist, n purple patch is on the back pocket, not under, n also it is chainstitched.

[__3xL]

denim looks thick n TOUGH though nonetheless .. is that woven denim tweed ?

[386]

You could e-mail the seller and ask for a refund in exchange for the jeans. You could speak of dishing out bad feedback, but he probabaly already has a dozen accounts to fall back on. In that case you could resell them with "Not really what I was looking for" and don't put anything about them being authentic.

[thegashman]

denim looks thick n TOUGH though nonetheless .. is that woven denim tweed ?

How the hell should I know - I'm a noob!!

OK, sinners, PRPS came back to me after I posted them some full shots and they were hating the weak wash and phoney distressing. Plus the 3 poppers instead of 2 were making them spit on the workshop floor, for real they were p*ssed!

Communication with the seller has been real civil throughout this little situation and he's said he's gonna give a refund once he get's the mail from PRPS\Indigofera confirming their fake-ass status.

Don't buy PRPS from eBay!!!!!!

"I love all y'all mutha f*ckas"

[__3xL]

they spit on the floor ?

makes me wonder if they are running slave labor for the " AFRICAN cotton " now .

you guys dont see the science behind this logic ey ?

Ask um is it hand picked zimbabwe cotton ... bet they say yea ..

[thegashman]

they spit on the floor ?

makes me wonder if they are running slave labor for the " AFRICAN cotton " now .

you guys dont see the science behind this logic ey ?

Ask um is it hand picked zimbabwe cotton ... bet they say yea ..

...just as long as they don't say, "yes masser"...:eek:

[MilSpex]

This is absurd. There's nothing inherently inferior about distressed jeans. I, personally, am getting really sick and tired of stiff-as-iron undistressed jeans. Is it true that more often than not, distressed jeans look shitty? Yes. That doesn't mean there aren't some great washes out there.

Yeah like distressed LVC 44s and some of the stuff smaller Japanese labels put out are pretty nice.

[__3xL]

I agree milspex - the " genuine wear marks " of 99% of jeans though is something we look at as crappy though .

And besides those that are purposely made to appear genuine - some other makers have tasteful distressing ..

when the question was asked I pictured it like this

" fake diesel jeans crappy distressing vs. the real diesel jeans somewhat decent stuff "

like one looks like time and attention was put into it which is HARDLY the norm as jeans are mass produced . Even levis does it quite often when putting just some sanded lines onto the thighs and knees calling it whiskers that shits ugly ... and others look half way good ..

even on my loomstates the distressing is well done , but not exactly in the right places for the honeycombs ( for my legs ) so it looks shitty to me ON ME , but to the untrained eye theyre great .. I love the fit , over style n swag and super softness of them though .. They feel " homely "

Minya you know I love you to deff though dammit ..