How much of an impact do you think we have on the Japanese denim market?

[djrajio 97,327]

Sugarcane, Samurai and Studio D'Artisan are not a tiny companies. For a *really* small company, this might make a difference. However, that a specific store has very little stock at any one time indicates very little in and of itself about the size of the company and/or it's sales figures. It could be that the sell rate is just very high. And even then, the entire American market is tiny, and could hardly be said to have an impact except on the very smallest companies which for whatever reason have a very loyal following in the US not commiserate with it's following in Japan.

It comes down to the fact that there are just 2 retailers at most, for most of these companies, in the US.

Let's just run the numbers. Say that a given company sells 100 units each to both Selfedge and BIG (and 100 units is a significant order,) and sells another 100 units through Celga and other services, per season. That's 300 units to the States. Let's say that each unit retails at $250 (seems pretty reasonable) and that the retail markup is 50 points (which is really, really low. Most specialty shops mark up at least 60 points). That means that each pair nets $125. Let's say, in the spirit of generosity and for ease of calculation, that each pair costs $35 to manufacture (this includes shipping). So that's 300x90=$27 000 of per season, and we will assume that the additional volume adds no additional capital costs (equipment depreciation, for example). $27000/season is not a lot of cash except for a mom-and-pop operation. So even with my very generous assumptions, the North American market for Japanese jeans bolsters the numbers for half a dozen mom and pop stores.

No need for numbers.

American women = jeans celebrities are wearing / flattering cuts

American men = jeans that celebrities wear / women can identify and dig

Japanese men and women = jeans that American men and women are wearing

Until a Japanese company makes a modern cut with highly recognizable branding that Jennifer Aniston's stylist will endorse, there's little chance that it'll make a huge influence in America.

All the companies SFers talk about are microscopic specks here in Japan. The biggest Japanese denim companies here in Japan are Levi's Japan and Edwin. Sevens, True Religion, and D&G are super popular here. This is the reality.

[Dick Danger 36,550]

Until a Japanese company makes a modern cut with highly recognizable branding that Jennifer Aniston's stylist will endorse, there's little chance that it'll make a huge influence in America.

Oh the horror, what would we do it that ever happened?!?!?!?! Burn our Japanese denim and switch to Guatemalan denim? After all we can't be seen wearing mainstream denim.

[xcoldricex 15,667]

No need for numbers.

American women = jeans celebrities are wearing / flattering cuts

American men = jeans that celebrities wear / women can identify and dig

Japanese men and women = jeans that American men and women are wearing

Until a Japanese company makes a modern cut with highly recognizable branding that Jennifer Aniston's stylist will endorse, there's little chance that it'll make a huge influence in America.

All the companies SFers talk about are microscopic specks here in Japan. The biggest Japanese denim companies here in Japan are Levi's Japan and Edwin. Sevens, True Religion, and D&G are super popular here. This is the reality.

sooooo. the japanese denim market in japan is small, therefore we may have an impact on it, albeit small. i agree with poly though, i think my push of pure blue japan had to have impacted their sales. They sure as hell weren't selling many of the AI-001's until i came in and posted them on here and styleforum.

[poly800rock 745,541]

i am interested in the fact thatmost of this discussion has been based around financial impact...purely a volume exercise...surely the japanese denim thing is so new to the states [with two stores so far] that this remains to be seen...although i would beleive that BiG and selfedge have been influenced by supertalk...if it turns out to be a tip of the iceberg and the interest in japanese denim continues to grow... then there is a case to be made....

i would have thought that if there was a current impact it would occur further up the coalface...in creating the jeans...fits and what have you...customer feedback from a mostly well informed group of early adopters...

as is hinted at by shinichi...

thank you for your input shinichi san....look forward to reading more of your opinons on this..

i wonder that too hap, but at the same time, i look at the point that most of the beloved japanese brands on this board are just reproduction cuts of Levi's....and if a company would take a gamble on their bread and butter to go to a different cut that might cater to an outside market....wouldn't you think it would be fairly suicidal to create a cut to cater to an outside crowd that might be hated to your target demographic (inside japan?).

[cheapmuthafukr 2,357,256]

its threads like this that keep me coming back.

[tony_hige 1,259]

I'm rethinking what I had said earlier...logically, if the cult denim market in Japan is small, then we probably do have some sort of impact on it. The question then is whether that impact is felt or acknowledged. One company that really realized the potential of an international market is 45rpm. I mean, obviously Evisu as well, but Evisu was huge in Japan so expansion was inevitable. 45rpm on the other hand, I believe, is bigger here than in Japan. I could be wrong, but I have a lot of Japanese friends who are into cult denim who've never heard of 45rpm. And 45rpm isn't prominent in the Lightning books. I don't know the history of the company...maybe they're relatively new in the denim game.

[swisloc 137]

i wonder that too hap, but at the same time, i look at the point that most of the beloved japanese brands on this board are just reproduction cuts of Levi's....and if a company would take a gamble on their bread and butter to go to a different cut that might cater to an outside market....wouldn't you think it would be fairly suicidal to create a cut to cater to an outside crowd that might be hated to your target demographic (inside japan?).

maybe so, but isn't this the prime questions that all capital endeavors face? I'm not sure what business anyone posting here is in, but my firm (architects) is constantly walking the line between producing projects to fit the firm's image versus producing projects that fit clients interests. while it may be more rewarding to stick to your guns and be true to your image and direction, this does not neccesarily pay the bills.

we (this niche group) reward these companies for being true to their image and maintianing impecable levels of quality; just remember, to their owners, they are still businesses and they must walk the same line between sacrifice-for-sales and staying true to image that we all do in our professional lives. just because they are in the business of quality niche items, that does not put them above creating change in their product to produce more revenue should they see the oportunity.

[poly800rock 745,541]

i think its different to gamble on an international niche market when your already niche market is paying the bills. I feel like its one thing to try and cater to another local demographic, but to cater to an outside market that's already small enough and expect to change the business...thats another thing

[swisloc 137]

i think its different to gamble on an international niche market when your already niche market is paying the bills. I feel like its one thing to try and cater to another local demographic, but to cater to an outside market that's already small enough and expect to change the business...thats another thing

yeah, you're probably right, but it's still not out of the question. look at Evisu. they started in repro like all the rest, but certainly took advantage of another consumer group when the opportunity arose. granted, they are the exception, not the rule, but it shows it's not out of the question.

also, when i was reffering to the existing niche market, i meant denim enthusiasts in general with the "mainstream" being the larger, influencial demographic, rather than north american enthusiast vs. local japanese enthusiast... sorry for the confusion.