what GQ has to say about raw denim.

[dnarnya]

This was posed to "The Style Guy":

(http://men.style.com/gq/fashion/styleguy/pants)

"Q: What’s the deal with raw or selvage jeans? I’ve heard that you can’t wash them because they’ll lose their color. True?

A: Trend victims are walking around in filthy jeans because they are afraid to wash them and make them look even slightly lighter. There is a natural life cycle to jeans. They start out dark blue, they get washed and worn, and eventually they wind up abraded and maybe in Africa with all the old CK T-shirts. Made by using the old-style looms, new selvage jeans are full of dark dye. One way to try to maintain the dark color is to wash them inside out with cold water, and some people use Woolite Dark Laundry to prevent undue color loss. When they get too light for fashion, buy another pair and give the medium blue ones to a charity or a trend-insensitive friend.

June 2006"

Comments?

[keska]

so basicly what the answerer is saying is that everyone on this planet that walks around in fitlhy jeans because they are afraid to wash them and make them look even slightly lighter is a trend victim?

hes just doing his job trying to be the knower of all things fashion for the mainstream and be commercial

[kiya]

Fuck GQ.

that is all.

[xcoldricex]

he totally missed the point- we're not washing them so they fade better, not because we don't want them to get lighter.

i guess i didn't have to post that. but whatever.

[ishboo]

i sent him an email informing him of his stupidity.

[Geowu]

I think this exact same quote has been commented here before. There's a bit of truth in what it says, that you shouldn't baby your jeans too much and just wash them when you want. Most top-notch jeans can stand several washes without losing their dark appearance.

[american_hearts]

he's coming at it from the standpoint of a guy who believes in a healthy dose of functionality in fashion. in other words, it's not so far off-the-mark -- consider it kin to ryu's philosophy, or the "philosophy" of all those who have always worn their denim as workwear. o'brien's certainly not stupid -- in fact, i find him to be fairly level-headed through all the drastic ebb-and-flow of the fashion world.

i'm certain he respects the myriad reasons that ST'ers religiously hold off on washing their denim. he's commenting more on those currently carried along by the wave, not washing their jeans because it's the cool thing at the moment, because "raw" is a buzzword, not because they know or care about old looms or twill or denim quality.

At any rate, a middle-aged former punker who dresses his age, yet still has an eye for quality in streetwear (his oft-mentioned love of Supreme) should at least be given the benefit of the doubt.

[greentea]

he probably lurks on this forum.

[rnrswitch]

he's coming at it from the standpoint of a guy who believes in a healthy dose of functionality in fashion. in other words, it's not so far off-the-mark -- consider it kin to ryu's philosophy, or the "philosophy" of all those who have always worn their denim as workwear. o'brien's certainly not stupid -- in fact, i find him to be fairly level-headed through all the drastic ebb-and-flow of the fashion world.

i'm certain he respects the myriad reasons that ST'ers religiously hold off on washing their denim. he's commenting more on those currently carried along by the wave, not washing their jeans because it's the cool thing at the moment, because "raw" is a buzzword, not because they know or care about old looms or twill or denim quality.

At any rate, a middle-aged former punker who dresses his age, yet still has an eye for quality in streetwear (his oft-mentioned love of Supreme) should at least be given the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, but Supreme sucks. The fact of the matter is that dark denim has always been in for certain cliques of people. Just cuz people are doing it now doesn't make all people doing it followers or hypebeasts... just most of them.

[Tenchi]

Noob, he has no idea what starching does either http://men.style.com/gq/fashion/styleguy/pants/389

"I am not familiar with this aberrant trend. It doesn’t sound like a cowboy look to me. I wouldn’t want to spend time in the saddle after fortifying my dungarees with a whole can of starch. Maybe it’s a NASCAR thing, as that starchiness might afford some protection in the event the General Lee crashes. I once had to go to anger management so as not to fire a housekeeper for creasing my jeans. Ironing them was bad enough. Jeans should not be creased—and starching them is overkill. Dressing down should stay down."

[minya]

... yet he's right. Starching your jeans is OCD Niketalker " how do i win the denim game" overkill shit.

Just wear them.

[lil brown brother]

he probably lurks on this forum.

uhuh ... but he doesnt get it though....

[wild_whiskey]

Don't you realize not washing your jeans for as long as we don't is crazy? He's being *normal*. I would think by this point all people who consider themselves denimheads no longer subscribe to the idea of being normal, and at that point it should be very easy to accept his response.

[kiya]

... yet he's right. Starching your jeans is OCD Niketalker " how do i win the denim game" overkill shit.

Just wear them.

Minya, i couldn't have said it better myself.

there should be a subdivision of supertfuture for the heads that have been around for a while. cause let me tell you, it's about to get ugly.

my guess is that within the next two months we're going to have thousands and thousands of new subs on this board that all used to be sneaker collectors that now want the perfect pair of jeans. but aren't willing to wait for them.

they want them quickstyle.

hypezillas indeed.

[adsurgo]

trend victims.

that is all.

[digital_denim]

my guess is that within the next two months we're going to have thousands and thousands of new subs on this board that all used to be sneaker collectors that now want the perfect pair of jeans.

I thought this happened already about half a year ago to a year ago. It was pretty crappy on this board then.

[tweeds]

Noob, he has no idea what starching does either http://men.style.com/gq/fashion/styleguy/pants/389

"I am not familiar with this aberrant trend. It doesn’t sound like a cowboy look to me. I wouldn’t want to spend time in the saddle after fortifying my dungarees with a whole can of starch. Maybe it’s a NASCAR thing, as that starchiness might afford some protection in the event the General Lee crashes. I once had to go to anger management so as not to fire a housekeeper for creasing my jeans. Ironing them was bad enough. Jeans should not be creased—and starching them is overkill. Dressing down should stay down."

er...but starching your jeans IS a cowboy thing.

Paul's said that cowboys starched their jeans for two things,

1) weatherproofing their jeans

2) keeping the leg crease which apparently was a pretty "in" thing for sharp dressers in those days

but yeah ignorance aside i agree with wild_whiskey - superfuture (or is just superdenim?) members are not normal. not by any long shot. they may be way cool but they are certainly not normal.

[adsurgo]

I thought this happened already about half a year ago to a year ago. It was pretty crappy on this board then.

yeah i was going to say something about that.

[Aramyr]

But do you wanna be normal, Tweedles? I don't see raw selvedge denim ever getting that popular, even if a number of people jump on the bandwagon thinking it's trendy, Kiya. Base cost of the jeans plus the time and effort to really get nice looking wear isn't something I see many folks willing to put up with. They all seem to think I'm crazy when I start babbling about denim, anyways.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

he's coming at it from the standpoint of a guy who believes in a healthy dose of functionality in fashion. in other words, it's not so far off-the-mark -- consider it kin to ryu's philosophy, or the "philosophy" of all those who have always worn their denim as workwear. o'brien's certainly not stupid -- in fact, i find him to be fairly level-headed through all the drastic ebb-and-flow of the fashion world.

i'm certain he respects the myriad reasons that ST'ers religiously hold off on washing their denim. he's commenting more on those currently carried along by the wave, not washing their jeans because it's the cool thing at the moment, because "raw" is a buzzword, not because they know or care about old looms or twill or denim quality.

At any rate, a middle-aged former punker who dresses his age, yet still has an eye for quality in streetwear (his oft-mentioned love of Supreme) should at least be given the benefit of the doubt.

he's cool because he likes supreme?

yeah, supreme is really the most underground brand only for those in-the-know that exists!

[tweeds]

But do you wanna be normal, Tweedles? I don't see raw selvedge denim ever getting that popular, even if a number of people jump on the bandwagon thinking it's trendy, Kiya. Base cost of the jeans plus the time and effort to really get nice looking wear isn't something I see many folks willing to put up with. They all seem to think I'm crazy when I start babbling about denim, anyways.

haha that's a good question. i like to hide my denimheadedness until i meet an appropriate other who's likewise into the jeans...and then all hell breaks loose

but my friends know i'm really in love with the jeans. i mean...you know after my circle of friends have been through college they're going to do things - lawyers, surgeons, bankers - you have to have a denim consultant in that list of must-have friends. haha.

[Seething Tortoise]

I don't see the problem with that article.

None of us really wants to keep our jeans dark blue, we're just wearing it in for better contrast. It doesn't seem to be intended for the average STer.

[Michael Hunt]

i love my denim as much as anybody...but there is something very nerdy and anal (let alone disgustingly dirty) about not washing your jeans for fashion effect, i will do almost anything for fashion as im a proper slave like everyone else who posts on a fashion forum.....but being a proper dirty human is not one of them im afraid....the guy from 'gq' is not wrong, its you non washers that are the ones who are wrong..but it is your life, and your choice..so do what you like/must and enjoy....hate me for speaking my mind, but you all know its right.

[airfrogusmc]

The main reason I prefer not to wash is because I wear older style LVCs. The originals were from a time before washing machines or when only few had washing machines. So for my LVCs to acquire that authentic look they need to be washed/soaked very sparingly.

Wash on but for me I'll keep waiting and soaking only.

[hockamania]

The originals were from a time before washing machines or when only few had washing machines

well i guess washing them by hand should be fine then right? seeing that's how they were washed 'in that time'

[airfrogusmc]

But remember they were washed very sparingly, A day in the fields or the mine has gotta be equal to six months on the bar stool. And they were work cloths so maybe after a few weeks you'd give'm a wash maybe not.

If you want to keep them nice and dark so natural abrasion can have its full effect my advice is wait as long as you can before your first soak. When you do a first soak look at how blue the water gets. Thats all dye bleeding from your jeans.

[tweeds]

But remember they were washed very sparingly, A day in the fields or the mine has gotta be equal to six months on the bar stool. And they were work cloths so maybe after a few weeks you'd give'm a wash maybe not.

If you want to keep them nice and dark so natural abrasion can have its full effect my advice is wait as long as you can before your first soak. When you do a first soak look at how blue the water gets. Thats all dye bleeding from your jeans.

my water was dirty

i think i sweat dirt or something

[american_hearts]

he's cool because he likes supreme?

yeah, supreme is really the most underground brand only for those in-the-know that exists!

that's not quite what i meant. he's an older guy who doesn't run in streetwear circles -- fact that he gives supreme the time of day shows that his raw denim response doesn't come from him being out-of-touch, but from a common-sense way of approaching clothes.

[Jimmy Christ]

I agree with the man on the 'trend victim' thing. If you aren't just putting on your jeans, wearing them and then washing them when they're dirty, then you are following the particular trend that this forum mainly focuses on. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, and it's not like fashion in general isn't all about trends, but I think you'd have to be deep in denial to reject that part of what he said. Do you think cowboys or any of the guys who used to wear their jeans for work in the old days gave a shit about how their jeans faded and didn't wash them (or get their wife to wash them) when they got too dirty?

[SoloC]

How many people can enjoy a pianting? I doubt many people can. It is the same for denim. There are not many people knowing what we are doing. I think we are just doing what we can to get our denim as good looking as it can possibily be. How it is being done is our technique or style. If the final goal is the same, I see no reason to give it a try. Washing your denim frequencly or not doest really matter. All we are looking for is beauty in our denim.