Business of Raw

[HEWSINATOR]

Should companies be embracing raw as it seems to be where denim is going, or fight against it, as it would seem to limit the "need" to have numerous pairs of jeans.

Thoughts? Ideas to make raw still profitable?

I think there may be room to be viable in reducing costs from washing but selling at higher prices based on "quality of denim" and construction, etc...

[Denim Phenom]

Any smart business person knows that you make what people want. Make raw denim, make money.

[HEWSINATOR]

Any smart business person also knows that a customer can be reared.

[Rockn]

It is a very bad time for raw denim for us denim afficianados for a few reasons, raw is in this year. Now that may not sound that bad, but after reading sportswear international and other fashion business publications it is very obvious that the major denim houses (chip and pepper, seven, citizen, true religion) will be releasing numerous versions of raw this year and many already have. With Nudie widening there distribution and making raw denim marketable, others are starting to jump on the bandwagon. I personally think this is a trend and raw will slowly again be left to the original raw sellers.

As far as your thoughts on will denim companies fight against raw, the answer is probably no. The average american will not have the dedication or patience to wear only one pair of jeans for 6 months. Keep in mind this is the nation that consumes fast food because its fast.

Just my thoughts...

[HEWSINATOR]

Very true. I guess I competely assumed that people would follow the process in oppose to buying a pair of "dark" jeans to be part of their collection. This I can not imagine would be the case.

[Yet Fung]

I have opinions on this, but they are based on what I myself consider a strong business plan for a denim company. And I'd like to someday try it out myself. So I'll just stick to thoughts.

It's hard to sell anyone on quality raw denim, because it requires a sacrifice of convenience. (Those who love raw denim, love obviously more than just the idea of breaking in their own pair of jeans but also the intricate details the naked eye misses.) Asking someone to buy a pair of raw jeans based on future looks is like asking someone to invest money based on projected returns. If you don't have the knowledge, the patience, then you'll get frustrated and quit, or you won't get the promised outcome. These days, most people buy jeans looking to keep them in the same condition because it typically costs a lot and they want to protect their investment. That's why the washed/faded model makes so much money. It's like selling a fake antique for half of vintage book value!

I'm sure raw is profitable on a per-unit basis, but the demand is inconsistent as it is based on a small steady stream of demand, coupled with a fluctuating 'fad' portion. This can be offset somewhat with strong marketing (such as what Nudie has). But even Nudie has to succumb to washing and sanding their jeans to make a profit. Otherwise, fluctuating demand would drive your production staff and sales department in and out of employment.

At the end of the day, I don't believe raw is meant for the masses. It just does not make sense in the long term. The good thing is, that in this day and age, you can find just about any kind of jean you want, meaning as a manufacturer, you can find just about any customer you want. It's a market of niches and small companies with distinct identities can thrive, rather than feeling forced to play to the majority fiddle.

That's all I've got to say, hopefully i'll have a stronger say in the future.

[watchman]

the average consumer is not going to be struck by an epiphany when raw denim becomes available and log on to superfuture and stop washing their jeans. They see that hard denim is "in", or that the newest style from their favorite brand(ie TR, seven, citizen) is raw and they want it. However, we'll see how long it lasts when consumers have to deal with shrinkage, stretching, etc.

[HEWSINATOR]

Yet Fung, any progress on your quest to get local retailors to carry Sugarcanes?

I was in High Grade the other day and they now have ALOT of Nudie, some Acne, and One colour/Model of Cheap Monday with a sign that said "selling out across Europe. Everytime I go in there though to look for something specific (ie Japan Raw Nudies) the sales ignorance amazes me. When I look at Raws, they try to "school" me in them. I am like look at my pants, I am wearing them, just 9 months old.

Anyhow, moral of story is that there is alot of learning that needs to take place for a product innovation like this and I do not think that sales staff are doing their end to make people happy with their decision. They do need to train consumers so thay can achieve the results in the Nudie book.

[mcflip]

People will lose interest soon enough, and 98.5% of people out there wash their clothes a lot more frequently than most of us do. Once the next fad hits, it means that there will be a glut of darker than usual washed "premium" denim at places like Buffalo Exchange in a couple years.

[rocker4life]

business-mided people always have to be "in".no one wants to be left out

[YoungPunch]

If the average consumer is buying raw denim, they are only buying it because it is a "dark" color. Something different than the light blue ripped/ distressed jeans they already have in their closet.

They know nothing about keeping the jeans raw and wearing them in. I bet 99% of the people who will buy seven, true religion, etc in an unwashed dry version will throw these jeans in the washer as soon as they get home from the store.

[Geowu]

if they do like the raw it will probably be for what it is, not for what it may become in months/years. think "luster" of raw denim

[digital_denim]

I have a friend who is very trendy and he bought a pair of Nudies a few months back. He has since washed them many a times, because he normally washes his jeans once a week. He bought in on the idea to the make your own wear marks in 6 months, but I think he was disgusted by the idea of not washing his jeans. I also thought he was more interested in the back pocket designs.

Don't worry just ride the trendy wave out. Raw denim will soon be ours and ours alone!

[will_i_am]

how'd the nudies turn out with regualar washing?

[digital_denim]

looked like normal jeans without the extreme high contrasting fades that we're use to around here.

[tion4->]

Yet Fung, any progress on your quest to get local retailors to carry Sugarcanes?

I was in High Grade the other day and they now have ALOT of Nudie, some Acne, and One colour/Model of Cheap Monday with a sign that said "selling out across Europe. Everytime I go in there though to look for something specific (ie Japan Raw Nudies) the sales ignorance amazes me. When I look at Raws, they try to "school" me in them. I am like look at my pants, I am wearing them, just 9 months old.

Anyhow, moral of story is that there is alot of learning that needs to take place for a product innovation like this and I do not think that sales staff are doing their end to make people happy with their decision. They do need to train consumers so thay can achieve the results in the Nudie book.

HEWSINATOR, I just kinda stumbled accross this thread...and needed to share a story about High Grade Clothing in Edmonton.

High Grade cracks me up. I was in there about 6 months ago, lookin' at what they had for raw denim. This sales guy comes up to me to 'educate' me on raw denim. He goes into this rant about how the trick to wearing raw jeans is to wear off the resin (he was talking about nudies) that is painted on them. I'm like "heh??" He continues "ya, Nudie paints all their jeans with resin, wear them for like 1 or 2 months without a wash and it wears off."

He proceeded to point at my jeans (2 year old Nudies washed twice) and tell me that they used to carry that wash before. I pointed at the dry selvage on the table "you still do".

[mizanation]

^^^ that's a funny story, man.

[Tarmac]

I think this raw trend will continue to boom. It has not begun to peak. You guys underestimate the voracious nature of the average Us Weekly reader for trends to bandwagon onto. You thought the UGG was done in 2005, didnt you? It's still going on and on and on. You thought the velour juicy tracksuit was done? Its going on and on.

Also I don't see any problem with the average consumer in stretching washing intervals to months. If they think its hot, they will do it.

Anyway there was no reason to think that the trend of massively processed ugly ass jean with artificial wear marks would continue forever. It lasted for a solid 8 years. If that is coming to an end, then there is no reason to think RAW won't be the replacement.

[mizanation]

tarmac, i think you are right. we have not even seen the beginning of the raw/dry trend yet in the states.

i know the japanese market is very different from the u.s. market, but, what happened in japan is that many people got on the raw trend in the early 90s. then it went away--people wore more washes. after people started wearing raw denim again in the states and europe, the japanese began to start wearing raw again. now, it's like a revival for "ame-casu" ("american casual") wear.

in the states, we're only starting to see the start of the trend.

[Tarmac]

oh i forgot to answer the original question about how raw might reduce the need for multiple jeans.

Manufacturers are probably concerned but I dont think they will base any decisions on that. If raw is the trend, they will go for it.

For as long as I remember fashion mags have recommended "get one really good pair of jeans", and yet plenty of chicks get 20 pairs if they can afford it. Excess will always be excess. Same as the dudes on here with 15 pairs which each take 2 years to age. Thats 30 years worth of jeans they bought in a couple of months. :confused:

Still, as far as the trend itself goes, I dont remember any celebrity male wearing any rawish jean yet, unless you are talking about Akon singing on Jay Leno. Have you seen any?

[PG2G]

Is raw really that popular in Japan even? When I was there all the stores were filled with PDC, True Religion, and the like. Doesn't really look like its something thats been picked up the mainstream there.

I've heard raw denim referred to by a bunch of rappers (black thought is the only one I can think of off the top of my head), and then there's Jay-Z with the Samurai.

[mizanation]

man, all the rappers are wearing raw jeans now. except, when they get dirty, they just buy a new pair (or get them free from the designer).

but as for "mainstream" celebs? no.

[PG2G]

man, all the rappers are wearing raw jeans now. except, when they get dirty, they just buy a new pair (or get them free from the designer).

but as for "mainstream" celebs? no.

Hehe, I guess raw denim is the new white tee

[RockTheVote]

He proceeded to point at my jeans (2 year old Nudies washed twice) and tell me that they used to carry that wash before. I pointed at the dry selvage on the table "you still do".

Hahahaha.. This fucking cracks me up...

[denihilist]

Well there was Jay Z wearing Samurai's and I remember seeing Talib Kwali on the Dave Chappell show wearing raw Evisu and Brad Pitt was in all of those Edwin ads back in the day...

edit: damn, late again.

[BTT]

Is raw really that popular in Japan even? When I was there all the stores were filled with PDC, True Religion, and the like. Doesn't really look like its something thats been picked up the mainstream there.

Whenever I go to Asia, the fashion always changes (go there about once a year), and I'm pretty sure that raw denim was popular in Japan 5 years ago, and then since America always follows Asian fashions and Asian fashions always copy our fashion that we don't wear anymore and just do it better and we get overzealous over it and copy it again. Thats why their just starting to wear True Religion and jeans that are washed.

[aubrgene]

I've been buying jeans for a while now and my raw jeans are still my favorites. I have an LVC shrink to fit 55 501's I bought a while back and they're still one of my favorites. I have distressed jeans from Tsubi, Helmut Langs, but hardly ever wear them now... specially the 'ripped' jeans that was so popular 4 years ago.

[Tarmac]

It's really hard to say what is "big in Japan". In fact you could say everything is big there, all the time. That's probably why the phrase is kind of a joke now "big in Japan." People are into everything.

Here's an example - cars. Obviously there is a huge car culture there, you would think from all the option videos and gran turismo games that every other kid either has an AE86, R32 skyline dropped to the skin, or an Evo VI. But you probably see one of these hypertuned cars only about once a week. I remember I was in downtown Tokyo for 3 days and didn't see a single STi Impreza...

[cmykhustla]

in philly, it seems many people [urban/hip hop influenced] wear raw or dark, one wash denim like evisu, red monkey, lrg, etc. But not for the sake of "raw denim". I would imagine they wash them like anything else or pick up a fresh pair every few weeks. I've never seen anyone with a broken in pair of any of the above. Here its about being fresh and clean; clean sneakers, new hat, fresh tee, etc. I see more and more "raw denim" with crazy embroidery every day, so this market is def. Being targeted succesfully.

[turcy.]

HEWSINATOR' date=' I just kinda stumbled accross this thread...and needed to share a story about High Grade Clothing in Edmonton.

High Grade cracks me up. I was in there about 6 months ago, lookin' at what they had for raw denim. This sales guy comes up to me to 'educate' me on raw denim. He goes into this rant about how the trick to wearing raw jeans is to wear off the resin (he was talking about nudies) that is painted on them. I'm like "heh??" He continues "ya, Nudie paints all their jeans with resin, wear them for like 1 or 2 months without a wash and it wears off."

He proceeded to point at my jeans (2 year old Nudies washed twice) and tell me that they used to carry that wash before. I pointed at the dry selvage on the table "you still do".[/quote']

OMG, glorious! way to stick it to him!