JohnUNDERCOVER / SueUNDERCOVER a/w 2013

[pompadork]

Here's the more 'mainstream' 'diffusion' side lines from Undercover - 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source & Sue stuff here http://www.fashionsnap.com/collection/undercover/suejohn/2013-14aw/

Edited July 23, 2013 by pompadork

[Egpt]

Are these Undercover diffusion lines then?

[pita bread]

the diffusion line has leather pants?

[Egpt]

the diffusion line has leather pants?

they look like coated jeans and not straight up leather, but I might be wrong.

[pompadork]

Are these Undercover diffusion lines then?

 

Yeah sorry, these are the lines. 

[tarr]

lookbook seems to be shot at jun's appartment

 

also shoes look promising

Edited July 24, 2013 by tarr

[djrajio]

This sucks.

[Vampyrvargfesten]

so this is a line for subversive pedestrian clothes?

 

this is like the uniqlo collection

[conqueror]

i like it, esp the 5th fit down. obv not as 'oh wow' or interesting as uc, but still has some merit. curious as to what the pricing will be like.

Edited July 24, 2013 by conqueror

[Desaturated]

I'm kinda down with that personally since it suits my style a bit more. Although I do appreciate the mainline pieces, I simply couldn't rock 'em.

 

@vamp

Edited July 24, 2013 by Desaturated

[cameron-]

so this is a line for subversive pedestrian clothes?

 

this is like the uniqlo collection

people will hate this no matter what it is just because its an undercover diffusion, no one wants undercover to be  accessible and no one wants to see the design or quality compromised.  but if these pieces came to retail next year under UCism, prob no one would bat an eye

 

i do see the resemblance to UU tho with flat hem shirts and cropped skinny bottoms etc. 

[djrajio]

The quality of Undercover isn't that great to be honest.

 

I know the exact factories and fabric makers they use to make their clothes.

[Desaturated]

^prove it

Edited July 24, 2013 by Desaturated

[DJ_Flame]

+ 1 to djrajio's comment on UC's quality. Besides a few stand-out pieces, majority of the workmanship/quality is just meh. I buy UC from a design standpoint, not a quality one.

e.g. Buttons falling off, materials not holding up well to repeated use and washes, etc.

Edited July 24, 2013 by DJ_Flame

[djrajio]

^prove it

Basically the Japanese fashion industry is a big circle jerk of patterners and OEM manufacturers.

 

The same OEM manufacturer I use does the patterns and handles the production for Undercover, N. Hoolywood, Mr. Gentleman, Phenonmenon, etc.

It all basically a lie for you fuckbois.

[herpsky]

Women's line complete with prices here

 

Agreed on the quality. It's good but not Europan import good.

Edited July 24, 2013 by herpsky

[bill]

If this can help Jun to make good collections and runway shows like his women's fall 2013 one, why not?

This thing makes me want a Neu tee even more.

[Desi]

shit still looks yummy to my hungry ass

[homme.homme]

I don't mind this. It appears to be a collection of the more classic pieces that have appeared over the last couple of years. If this hums along as a money maker and enables the runway to be more exciting then I'm all for it. I'd probably wear most of it too, pending the quality is decent enough.
 

[pompadork]

Basically the Japanese fashion industry is a big circle jerk of patterners and OEM manufacturers.

 

The same OEM manufacturer I use does the patterns and handles the production for Undercover, N. Hoolywood, Mr. Gentleman, Phenonmenon, etc.

It all basically a lie for you fuckbois.

 

Out of curiosity then, what JP brands are doing better quality stuff? 

[Desaturated]

djrajio that's quite a shame then, although it seems common for some european brands too....

 

^^I also have the same question.

[djrajio]

Out of curiosity then, what JP brands are doing better quality stuff? 

Kolor.

 

One of the few labels that actually produces its own in-house fabrics in Japan.

Edited July 25, 2013 by djrajio

[djrajio]

djrajio that's quite a shame then, although it seems common for some european brands too....

 

^^I also have the same question.

 

It's not a shame. It's the reality.

 

All top designers/brands do this shit.

 

Zegna produces all the suits for most designer houses (Gucci, Tom Ford, etc.).

 

All the denim for most Jap brands come from the same mills in Okayama.

 

I'm just saying people hold undercover in high esteem for its quality.

 

But its not that good.

 

You buy Undercover for the design / marketing/ hype.

 

Same reason fuckbois buy Pyrex.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Just don't lie to yourself.

This collection is lazy and I wouldn't buy any of it.

 

Frankly I haven't bought anything from Undercover since the Less is Better collection which is still one of the best.

Edited July 25, 2013 by djrajio

[pompadork]

http://zozo.jp/_news/5180/5180.html

 

 

â”(´ー｀)┌ 

[kH0yA Sw@Gp0o]

i liek dis http://zozo.jp/shop/undercover/goods.html?gid=2630121&did=10291223&cid=12680

[pompadork]

I think he was just saying that because of the same OEM use for many brands, people shouldn't use quality as the reason they're paying UC prices, not that said quality is garbage. 

 

drajio how's white mountaineering ( ≖‿≖) 

[djrajio]

Yeah but now this raises the question what is quality. I dunno what you're comparing UC to and coming to the conclusion that it's not that great quality wise. Maybe you've got blinders on from being in the thick of it but UC is still better quality than 90% of the clothes on the planet. Even limiting it to designer fashion I feel UC is better quality than most of what's out there. Which is why the argument that you buy it for the design and nothing else seems silly. That's a great description for something like H&M but it feels like you're splitting hairs when you apply it to something like UC, in order for that conclusion to be apt there needs to be something significantly above UC quality wise which you can compare it to which I don't think exists. I dunno I just feel this argument is kind of tiring, it's still made in Japan designer clothes, it's still better than most of the fashion out there. 

Feels like people need to shit on UC because it's popular now and has been co-opted by the internet fashion mainstream (which is still like 0.1% of the planet, similar to the quality argument). The brand is about to turn 20 years old next year. For what was a brand that was originally built on being cool that's an eternity, it's also a good time to cash in the chips. If you want really innovative clothes you're not going to get it from a brand that was cool in the 90's. That's the trade off with fashion, young designers have new and innovative ideas but they don't have the skills and experience to produce really consistent product. Old designers don't have the new and innovative ideas but they do have the skills and experience to deliver that really consistent product. You're saying that people buy UC for the ideas and not the quality but I think it's actually the exact opposite. It's just that quality means more than something like the stitch count.

The problem here is that we're expecting new and innovative ideas from an older designer which I think is kind of indicative of the problem with the fashion scene right now. We're in an intermediary phase where the next generation of designers haven't really established themselves and the older generation hasn't really moved on. In fact what's happening in fashion right now could probably be compared to the global issue of the baby boomers refusing to retire and move on. Or maybe the new designers are there but they're not doing anything worth acclaim so we're fetishizing the past instead.

What is quality?

 

Well take something as common place as a broad-cloth cotton shirt. What is the thread count? How is the cotton interweaved? 80 by 20? 40 by 60? Depending on the weave and the quality of the cotton, the material will stretch/wrinkle/dye differently. Then is the cotton brushed/combed? If so, how? Then is there any other finishing done to the material before its cut? When sewn, how is the sewing? Machine or hand done? What about the seams and loose threads? Is the stitching well done? Are the loose threads cut well? What about the buttons? Are they done well?

 

My observations on Undercover is that as an example the base cotton they use for a typical broad-cloth shirt has average thread count (i.e., cheaper cotton). It wrinkles very easy and doesn’t hold its structure very well after many washes. Secondly the finishing on Undercover is pretty subpar for a shirt. Loose threads, button weakly attached. Design wise it looks cool but again not exceptional.

 

The European houses make IMO better quality product in general compared to the Japanese. There are a few exceptions. For example, I think Julius still makes some of the best leathers for the price and quality is very good (better cost performance) compared to European counterparts.

 

Anyways, aside from quality, I don’t shit on UC not because it’s popular (I still think the woman’s wear collections are creatively very good especially the last collection combining cabaret /bustier concepts). I shit on UC because its menwear has been lazy.

 

Creatively lazy.

 

This diffusion collection is a perfect case in point.

Edited August 8, 2013 by djrajio

[bryanayrb]

Yeah but now this raises the question what is quality. I dunno what you're comparing UC to and coming to the conclusion that it's not that great quality wise. Maybe you've got blinders on from being in the thick of it but UC is still better quality than 90% of the clothes on the planet. Even limiting it to designer fashion I feel UC is better quality than most of what's out there. Which is why the argument that you buy it for the design and nothing else seems silly. That's a great description for something like H&M but it feels like you're splitting hairs when you apply it to something like UC, in order for that conclusion to be apt there needs to be something significantly above UC quality wise which you can compare it to which I don't think exists. I dunno I just feel this argument is kind of tiring, it's still made in Japan designer clothes, it's still better than most of the fashion out there. 

Feels like people need to shit on UC because it's popular now and has been co-opted by the internet fashion mainstream (which is still like 0.1% of the planet, similar to the quality argument). The brand is about to turn 20 years old next year. For what was a brand that was originally built on being cool that's an eternity, it's also a good time to cash in the chips. If you want really innovative clothes you're not going to get it from a brand that was cool in the 90's. That's the trade off with fashion, young designers have new and innovative ideas but they don't have the skills and experience to produce really consistent product. Old designers don't have the new and innovative ideas but they do have the skills and experience to deliver that really consistent product. You're saying that people buy UC for the ideas and not the quality but I think it's actually the exact opposite. It's just that quality means more than something like the stitch count.

The problem here is that we're expecting new and innovative ideas from an older designer which I think is kind of indicative of the problem with the fashion scene right now. We're in an intermediary phase where the next generation of designers haven't really established themselves and the older generation hasn't really moved on. In fact what's happening in fashion right now could probably be compared to the global issue of the baby boomers refusing to retire and move on. Or maybe the new designers are there but they're not doing anything worth acclaim so we're fetishizing the past instead.

 

 

UC quality is about the same now as 3-6 years ago.  You're not going to be incredibly impressed.. but the designs and fabric choices were way more interesting back then which is what made the difference.  What memorable piece have you seen in the past 4-6 collections?  Even the tumblr-hyped "She Brings the Rain" jacket is just a retake on the one from Neoboy/Poptonez with shittier leather.  30,000 yen for a basic cotton shirt with dodgy stitching is definitely enough to say the quality is poor.  

 

 

Now it's just mediocre quality with boring design.  That being said, I find this stuff much easier to wear and I'd much rather be caught in a full Johnundercover kit than Earmuff Maniac but there's no way you can say any of the recent collections have been impressive design-wise.  

Edited August 7, 2013 by bryanayrb

[djrajio]

Mate, I'm not going to read all of that.

 

Anyways, if it makes you feel any better:

 

"You Win"

 

Cheers.

[Njalle]

 

(Sorry Bernd!)

 

you are right doe!