Wings & Horns Fall 2006

[minya]

speaking of Swarovski... when are the purple camo W&H monogram hoodies coming out, if you can tell me? I'm really looking forward to those, you know.

[hahnstch]

What we bring to the table is custom researched and designed fabric, well thought-out forms and cuts, and meticulous care and follow-through.

couldn't agree more.

[LA Guy]

Hey soulize what were the price points on the hoodies/jackets? Heard they went up?

The shawl collar tiger fleece sweater is $145 at most places (American Rag) and the Tiger Fleece hoodies are going to be $165, a little higher than last year. Not sure about the other pieces.

[sriracha hot sauce]

2 Stocklists in SF is all I need to know. Seen the tiger in flesh today, and it is looked pretty damn incredible.

[mikeraskol]

No stockists anywhere near Baltimore, that sucks.

[malsponge]

Whoooaaa, I was looking at a picture of the shawl collar one today....and it doesn't have any pocket of any kind? Am I looking at the picture on styleforum right? If so, that sucks. I suppose that is kinda different though.

[sr20det]

Kane, maybe you can answer this. Has the cut for classic fit changed this season? I'm comparing the fitment of my Spruce tiger fleece hoodie (two seasons ago) to the current W+H black striped hoodie... feels like the shoulder/armpit area has grown?

[timpoblete]

2 Stocklists in SF is all I need to know. Seen the tiger in flesh today, and it is looked pretty damn incredible.

In San Francisco? Already out? Where? Called American Rag in the city and they said that haven't gotten theirs in yet.

[jhaime]

"then praise and point out a company that I'll never see "all over the rails". Uhm. What does that mean anyhow?"

It means they hold a large number of accounts throughout the globe, however the volume to which you find in each of those stores isn't as large as say, Fake London for example. Meaning it's a rare occasion when you find it in the sale & there is always a high demand for what is essentially a good quality product. They also limit which pieces you find in certain stores, based on a tier system.

so yeah, that's what it means.

[LA Guy]

Hey Jamie!

Actually, not really sure where W+H (the brand formerly known as Spruce) and Wings & Horns are available in Europe, but North American distribution is extremely limited. There are only about a dozen outlets, and at least a couple of them aren't getting more than a couple of dozen pieces. At least one order is less than 10 pieces!

There is widespread distribution throughout Japan, but there is relatively widespread distribution of pretty much everything throughout Japan. Don't know if the W+H stuff would be up your alley, but I think that a number of the Wings & Horns pieces would be.

The quality is really very good. I look at hundreds of hoodies every season, from every company from Urban Outfitters (USA) BDG line to remarkably expensive fleece pieces from Dior and Rick Owens, not to mention the many more cashmere and wool knit designer pieces, and I have to say that the CYC made and branded ones are some of the best designed and best constructed (from stitching to trims) that I've seen in the past 4 seasons now. Definitely one of the best value for money brands out there, not to say that there haven't been some shots that were, imo, wide off the mark (sorry Kane!).

Are you going to find the stuff on sale? Maybe, but the selection will be very limited, and in all likelihood, the best pieces and most popular colors will be gone. American Rag LA, one of the bigger stockists, AFAIK, just a couple of weeks into receiving their W+H stuff. has just 2 shawl collar sweaters left: an XXL (or XL?) on the floor, and a medium on a mannequin!

I'm not a big fan of the tiering system. It's a very Nike marketing technique. I think that if you are going to sell to a retailer, you should allow that retailer the full range of choices. The selectiveness should be in the choice of retailers, imo. Don't know if you are familiar with the retailers selling W+H and Wings & Horns, but they are generally regarded as some of the best independent casualwear stores in North America.

Saturation is hard to measure. I would say that everyone wants to saturate the market - i.e. optimize the distribution such that profits are high, but the cachet of the brand is not lost. What the value of the intangible cachet is is highly brand subjective, as are the strategies to safeguard it. One one hand, you have Mastermind Japan (friggin' $150+ trucker caps!) and Loopwheeler, on the other, you have Nike, all with highly different brand management models.

As for Griffin, I used to be a big fan (his F/W collection for 2000 was off the charts, and he had a terrific olive boiled wool, raw cut zip hoodie that is one of my biggest "not bought" regrets to date), but I haven't seen anything particularly interesting from him lately

Cheers man!

"then praise and point out a company that I'll never see "all over the rails". Uhm. What does that mean anyhow?"

It means they hold a large number of accounts throughout the globe, however the volume to which you find in each of those stores isn't as large as say, Fake London for example. Meaning it's a rare occasion when you find it in the sale & there is always a high demand for what is essentially a good quality product. They also limit which pieces you find in certain stores, based on a tier system.

so yeah, that's what it means.

[Kane]

Kane, maybe you can answer this. Has the cut for classic fit changed this season? I'm comparing the fitment of my Spruce tiger fleece hoodie (two seasons ago) to the current W+H black striped hoodie... feels like the shoulder/armpit area has grown?

We've been tweaking the fits for all our garments over the last few seasons, and there's also been a little bit of cross pollination between W+H and W&H which would have affected things, so there'll be slight variations between the last few seasons.

At this point, we're quite a bit closer to what we would consider our ideal standard, and these variations will become less and less noticable.

Another thing to note is that we've also tweaked the blend in our Tiger Fleece. I was really surprised to hear that Minya fit into, and apparently enjoyed a Small (!!) Tiger Fleece. Didn't think that the fabric would be that stretchy. There's no Lycra in it or anything.

[Kane]

It means they hold a large number of accounts throughout the globe, however the volume to which you find in each of those stores isn't as large as say, Fake London for example.

I can't speak for our Marketing side of things; however, I can see 2 issues with such a model.

1) Logistics would be a major pain in the as$. The amount of work necessary for separating the orders for each store would be inordinately large compared to the amount of work for even making the garment. Individual customers buying things off the net might be happy to pay $20 for shipping per garment, but imagine what would happen if, in the worst-case-scenario, you had to tag a premium like that at the wholesale level. Would you, as a consumer, want to pay for that premium for shipping, or would you rather have $20 put into the construction of the garment?

2) We make sweatshirts. We're not making diamond-studded shoehorns. We have no reason to artificially impose some sort of limit to fabricate some sort of illusion of exclusivity. As it is, we have been very careful in selecting stores to sell our product. Fok and several other people have mentioned this. However, once we've established a relationship with a store, we are generally glad to supply as many pieces as they can sell.

[mickawes]

Im going to be in San Fran till the end of the month! Everytime I go to American Rag I get dissapointed by the shitty selection, I hope they get some of these babies in soon!

I so want a tiger fleece! That pinstriped black one is pretty sick too, but I got too much black as it is!

But well see... Ive also been looking for some nice longsleeves too...

[minya]

Another thing to note is that we've also tweaked the blend in our Tiger Fleece. I was really surprised to hear that Minya fit into, and apparently enjoyed a Small (!!) Tiger Fleece. Didn't think that the fabric would be that stretchy. There's no Lycra in it or anything.

size S classic fit tiger fleece fits a 38" chest perfectly

The polyester provides the stretch. Cotton/poly stuff is always a lot stretchier than plain cotton.

[xcoldricex]

"then praise and point out a company that I'll never see "all over the rails". Uhm. What does that mean anyhow?"

It means they hold a large number of accounts throughout the globe, however the volume to which you find in each of those stores isn't as large as say, Fake London for example. Meaning it's a rare occasion when you find it in the sale & there is always a high demand for what is essentially a good quality product. They also limit which pieces you find in certain stores, based on a tier system.

so yeah, that's what it means.

i think you're the one buying into the "lifestyle brand" more than anyone else. afterall, it has to be a good quality garment if its LIMITED right?

[sr20det]

IMO, you guys were spot on with the fitment two seasons ago. This is in regards to the CLASSIC FIT - TIGER fleece hoodie. Size Large was cut perfectly EVERYWHERE.

I feel the upper chest/shoulder area has kinda taken on a "baggy" feel somewhat on the current rendition. It ain't RAP (thank god) but to me it's sorta lost it's tailored fitment which I feel was it's strongpoint. The sleeves however are still perfect.

Just throwing out some constructive criticism as I'm sure you'd like to hear feedback on the product. Still a fan though!

We've been tweaking the fits for all our garments over the last few seasons, and there's also been a little bit of cross pollination between W+H and W&H which would have affected things, so there'll be slight variations between the last few seasons.

At this point, we're quite a bit closer to what we would consider our ideal standard, and these variations will become less and less noticable.

Another thing to note is that we've also tweaked the blend in our Tiger Fleece. I was really surprised to hear that Minya fit into, and apparently enjoyed a Small (!!) Tiger Fleece. Didn't think that the fabric would be that stretchy. There's no Lycra in it or anything.

[jhaime]

i think you're the one buying into the "lifestyle brand" more than anyone else. afterall, it has to be a good quality garment if its LIMITED right?

i'm not entirely sure what you mean? :S

anyway, regarding the logistics of overseas orders, it's called a distributional contract with a courier firm or agency. I would have thought that would have applied already with you guys, considering you are carried in the UK? at Selfridges & also a store called Diverse in Islington, London. no? Did they pay shipping fees from the states to the UK on every unit receieved? crazy! If they did, they probably added it to the retail price, so i'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, sorry.

http://www.diverseclothing.com/menswear-home.html

[evisu 2000]

i don't think anyone in vancouver carries it.

this the most tragic thing, really.

[sybaritical]

My medium slim fits aren't as close fitting as I want but I'm scared to go smaller. I'm all upper body so I figure that a small would just look out of proportion.

Also: I'm glad we know the cuts are different between seasons now. I thought

it was just me being funny.

[sphoxx]

^^ That's what I wear too. I tapered the bottom of the elasticy part a bit by hand and they fit enormously better now!

[Kane]

I've actually noticed this to a degree, and have brought it up to the Design team for their consideration. I'm thinking what's happening is that as we monkey around with Tiger Fleece (to get new colours, etc) is that the fabric is behaving differently -- particularly in terms of stretch.

FYI, when we're spec'ing and measuring garments, they're done when the garment lays down flat and the fabric is relaxed. There's no other way to do it. You can't stretch or squish the fabric and then measure it.

In the case of the Tiger fleece, I'm thinking what's happening is that even though both garments that are spec'd the same may measure the same when laid flat, but will fit differently when worn.

[high_contrast]

So I guess I'm the first to pick up a hoodie from the new season. I see what sr was talking about with the fit being more generous in the chest and shoulders. I almost had to size down but just ended up grabbing my size.

The shawl pullover, however, fit very well and is more closer in terms of fit to the older seasons. The W&H hoodie with the leather fit PERFECTLY but at $500 and school just starting, I just couldn't take my chances.

There were sweater material double breasted peacoats and duffel coats as well that fit like a charm along with textured wool cardigans.

[ddohnggo]

did you get the tiger fleece? post pix please!

[high_contrast]

I got the black pinstriped one, ddohnggo! If the black tiger fleece was darker instead of the washed black I would have picked it up too.

[Parker669]

There were sweater material double breasted peacoats and duffel coats as well that fit like a charm along with textured wool cardigans.

anywhere I could see a pic of this peacot? Sounds amazinggg...

[Parker669]

is this what you're reffering to?

[wild_whiskey]

I believe UNSTEADY in San Diego, for those in the area, is going to be carrying Wings & Horns, or W+H, or both. Can't recall.

[Kane]

Heh. Parker, that's the old Peacoat (note the 'SPRUCE' label). The new one's cut noticbly sleeker. Can't help but think of Captain Harlock whenever I see the newer Peacoats.

[jot]

How much are the peacoats priced at?

[MyMindSpray]

Kane is right...the new peacoats and duffle coats are out of control...nice work this season!!....the only peacoat i've seen that has turned out better is Cloak's...Wings&Horns has also really stepped up the detailing this season...i said this last season, and i'll say it again, this is one of the few lines i eagerly look forward to seeing each season....