Is Starching a Part of Jeans Making Process?

[seatiger]

Is there a reason why raw jeans come starched? Aren't they supposed to be raw?

[cheapmuthafukr]

the fabric is starched and ironed before being cut and sewn. it helps in construction of the jeans, otherwise they would have to sew and cut floppy fabric, which wouldnt work too well.

[seatiger]

Oh, thanks! Finally cleared my doubts.

[tweeds]

but working with any other fabrics can't be any easier than working with floppy denim? why would denim in particular need to be starched during construction?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

because you dont want cardboard chiffon...

[tweeds]

cardboard chiffon - the new frontier.

no but that's exactly my point: you don't want cardboard chiffon, so you work with nice soft chiffon, what makes denim so different that you have to starch it?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

you do it because you can. think about it.

[tweeds]

you haven't answered the question in two tries my good man

[Corbin Law]

this about it logically and bear in mind that raw isnt the only world to describe them

usually they go by rigid and stiff or just unwashed which makes more sense in my opinion

but if they had to stiffness to them they would be pretty tough to get any sort of decent wear on them or creases,

and they wouldnt be as strong

these are working jeans that are meant for kicking ass and taking names

they need to be stiff to take a beating.

just my thoughts, not based on actual facts or anything, just logical thinking.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

you haven't answered the question in two tries my good man

yes, I have. you can't starch some fabrics because that process and the wash to remove the starch would ruin the fabric.

[minya]

Not all raw denim is starchy. Dior's raw denim, for instance, is starched very little. They're pretty soft and pliant from the get-go.

[mickawes]

sidenote - HorribleHollyJinx, I just realized what was in your avatar, and I am disgusted.

[tony_hige]

but working with any other fabrics can't be any easier than working with floppy denim? why would denim in particular need to be starched during construction?

Actually, most fabrics are treated with a sizing and are desized and pressed before shipping. Some aren't desized, like cheap t-shirts, which is why some t-shirts have a sheen straight out of the package. Bed sheets are also rarely desized.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Actually, most fabrics are treated with a sizing and are desized and pressed before shipping. Some aren't desized, like cheap t-shirts, which is why some t-shirts have a sheen straight out of the package. Bed sheets are also rarely desized.

how is the desizing done?

[rnrswitch]

this about it logically and bear in mind that raw isnt the only world to describe them

usually they go by rigid and stiff or just unwashed which makes more sense in my opinion

but if they had to stiffness to them they would be pretty tough to get any sort of decent wear on them or creases,

and they wouldnt be as strong

these are working jeans that are meant for kicking ass and taking names

they need to be stiff to take a beating.

just my thoughts, not based on actual facts or anything, just logical thinking.

Not always true. Sometimes the stiffness of the denim leads to cracking in the denim and holes in the future. I don't necessarily think that the stiffness of the denim makes it tough, but rather the weight and construction.

[mizanation]

all the denim that i've seen from projectile looms and shuttle looms leave the mill with sizing already on it. so, jean manufacturers don't need to starch the jeans before they cut and sew. i don't think they iron either because it's not neccessary. denim from a roll is as flat as can be.

some parts are pressed (for instance, folds that need to be sewn), but i don't think the fabric itself is "ironed" per se.

[tweeds]

Not all raw denim is starchy. Dior's raw denim, for instance, is starched very little. They're pretty soft and pliant from the get-go.

likewise, Rag & Bones are pretty much not particularly stiff when new.

HJJ: got this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desizing

"Desizing, irrespective of what the desizing agent is, involves impregnation of the fabric with the desizing agent, allowing the desizing agent to degrade or solubilise the size material, and finally to wash out the degradation products. The major desizing processes are:

* Enzymatic desizing of starches on cotton fabrics

* Oxidative desizing

* Acid desizing

* Removal of water-soluble sizes

Enzymatic desizing is the classical desizing process of degrading starch size on cotton fabrics using enzymes. Enzymes are complex organic, soluble bio-catalysts, formed by living organisms, that catalyze chemical reaction in biological processes. Enzymes are quite specific in their action on a particular substance. A small quantity of enzyme is able to decompose a large quantity of the substance it acts upon. Enzymes are usually named by the kind of substance degraded in the reaction it catalyzes.

Amylases are the enzymes that hydrolyses and reduce the molecular weight of amylose and amylopectin molecules in starch, rendering it water soluble enough to be washed off the fabric.

Effective enzymatic desizing require strict control of pH, temperature, water hardness, electrolyte addition and choice of surfactant."

the article continues to talk about the other three main methods of desizing.

[tweeds]

this about it logically and bear in mind that raw isnt the only world to describe them

usually they go by rigid and stiff or just unwashed which makes more sense in my opinion

but if they had to stiffness to them they would be pretty tough to get any sort of decent wear on them or creases,

and they wouldnt be as strong

these are working jeans that are meant for kicking ass and taking names

they need to be stiff to take a beating.

just my thoughts, not based on actual facts or anything, just logical thinking.

Corbin, just wanted to add onto what rnr said - starch wasn't originally used by the cowboys to stiffen the denim, rather as a size, or a filler between the pores of the fabric, in order to shield off dirt. admittedly, they were also starching the pants so that they would preserve the crease down the front, which was more for vanity's sake rather than in pursuit of toughness.

[rnrswitch]

Cowboys also add starch to their jeans for its waterproofing qualities as starch is not water soluble.

[tweeds]

waterproof, dirtproof, shitproof, rainproof, damn. who needs goretex.

[seatiger]

If it could only stinkproof jeans

[mizanation]

waterproof, dirtproof, shitproof, rainproof, damn. who needs goretex.

funny, back in the day before goretex, cats would wax or oil their jackets. these are the old school oiled and waxed canvas jackets. also known as tin cloth

some people still prefer these jackets because it's much more durable than goretex. waterproof, but also breathes well, too.

familyman is going to do a waxed denim jacket, i believe.

i think a pair of waxed jeans would look great on the slopes (for all you skiers and snowboarders out there).

[familyman]

f

familyman is going to do a waxed denim jacket, i believe.

The jacket is on it's way from Pointer, should get here late this week or next and then I'll gather the stuff to wax it. Interestingy, one of the things I'm been thinking about is whether I need to worry about washing the sizing out of the jacket before I wax it. I've not yet come to a conclusion about that.

I also think waxed denim would make pretty interesting snowboard/ski wear. Somebody who lives someplace cold needs to give it a try.

[mizanation]

i think washing the sizing out would be a good idea, familyman.

[familyman]

You're probably right. I think I'd do a cold soak before the wax. Thanks.

[mizanation]

do a soak with a tablespoon of salt, some japanese denim experts think it helps remove the sizing. after soaking, a couple of good rinses should do the trick. the denim expert from samurai suggests a 2 hour soak to remove sizing--right side out.

[dave023]

funny, back in the day before goretex, cats would wax or oil their jackets. these are the old school oiled and waxed canvas jackets. also known as tin cloth

some people still prefer these jackets because it's much more durable than goretex. waterproof, but also breathes well, too.

familyman is going to do a waxed denim jacket, i believe.

i think a pair of waxed jeans would look great on the slopes (for all you skiers and snowboarders out there).

Nothing better than a waxed barbour or belstaff jacket!!!!I like o-it old shool...

I have my wax jacket(s) now for more than 5 years ans it still gets more beautiful!

[dave023]

You're probably right. I think I'd do a cold soak before the wax. Thanks.

The only thing you should consider is that the wax goes through the jacket and ends up on your clothes....that's why companies as Barbour/Belstaff use a egyptian cotton( quality) and put some kind of product on it before applying the wax...

[familyman]

Dealing with that issue right now, I'm not sure how it's going to resolve itself but the wax finish gets a bit harder every day as it cures. I might have to be careful what clothes I wear it over for a while. It's a project though so I knew I'd have things to deal with.

[dave023]

You might try to send a mail at Barbout, they might tell you which stuff they use to proofen the jacket before waxing the jacket

UK Head Office

J Barbour & Sons LTD

Simonside

South Shields

Tyne and Wear

NE34 9PD

UK

Tel +44(0) 191 455 4444

Fax +44(0) 191 454 2944

Customer Services Department

J Barbour & Sons Ltd

Simonside

South Shields

Tyne and Wear

NE34 9PD

UK

Tel +44(0) 191 455 4444

Fax +44(0) 191 454 2944 Hopes this help