Music Producers / Studio Thread

[beatzNsneakz]

CHECK OUT MY BEATS!!!!! http://soundclick.com/trayboogie

[m@!]

I'm not insecure, not a snob about gear, and I'm sure there have been dope tracks made with FL at some point (there's certainly been plenty of garbage done on an MPC, SP1200, 909, etc). I just think it's a shitty, restrictive program, and aside from offering beginners an easy, cheap way to start fucking around with beats, there isn't anything positive about it. The fact that it's relegated to entry-level status (ie: the vast majority of working producers don't use it) says everything about the program.

It's kind of like designers who do everything with Photoshop because it's the easiest thing to find on the net (though obviously PS has it's legitimate use). They may (or may not) produce quality work, but they're constantly faced with the challenge of working around its inherent limitations, and stretching it to do things it was never really capable of or intended to.

i know drum and bass veterans (very successful) who have been producing with FL for the past 10 years. i used to have the same mindset as you but then realized that it doesn't matter what you use but HOW you use it... honestly this argument is kind of tired. it's like a traditional canvas painter trying to tell a graffiti artist that aerosol isn't right. producing isn't my thing but if you really want knowledgeable answers to help you with your argument in the future then check out www.dogsonacid.com . tons of information there.

[m@!]

also,

Reason

Fruity Loops

Logic

Cubase

all good starts which can probably be found on a bittorrent site if you're resourceful.

[thelaststarfighter]

well said.

i'll be posting in this later with some of my work...

beezy.

[BrokenGlass]

I'm looking to start making my own electronic music but I'm not really sure what gear is going to work for what I want to do. I want to make electro/house type music...I've got a synth (microkorg) and I can get some great lead sounds out of it but I'm not sure where to go for good drums/bass noise. Roland groovebox? Korg em? I don't know, any insight/input would be great. I plan on getting a macbook soon so mac compatable software reccomendations are welcome ... I'm thinking ableton...

[doczein]

I plan on getting a macbook soon so mac compatable software reccomendations are welcome ... I'm thinking ableton...

what kind of macbook are you planning to get? i was thinking along the same lines also. i'm planning to get a black 2.16 GHz macbook (not the pro) with the 13-inch display and the max of 2GB ram. i'm also trying to get into computer music production maybe as a side hobby in college. does such a macbook have enough power for some efficient music production?

[drapygo]

After, much research. I have compiled a new list. Now the only thing getting in the way is money.

1. Cubase

2. Sample CDs

3. Kontakt

4. z3ta+

5. V-Station

6. Vanguard

In that order...

[overdone]

It's all about the final product. It shouldn't matter what you use, as long as 1) you make something YOU like 2) Enjoy yourself.

Simple as that.

[jeepster]

has anyone noticed how poorly records are produced these days? mixing is such an afterthought for these pro-tools users, and no one takes the time to properly craft a record anymore. the perfect sound of a record for me is something like Beggar's Banquet or Village Green Preservation Society (by the Rolling Stones and The Kinks, respectively). what happened to finding the right balance between guitar and keys, or just having a full sounding kit with the bass drum NOT mic'd so it doesnt sound like a monkey beating on a plastic trash can. there was just so much more thought put into records, and not to say that there aren't any records with great production these days, but the aforementioned records and others like Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by the Small Faces or Music from the Big Pink by the Band or Stand! by Sly and the Family Stone, just sound like such stately and well-honed records, but today its hard to find something with such grace or pomp, and its unfortunate. with all the advances in production you would think that people would try and keep at least a standard of grace in their production. i mean obviously theres the analog and lo-fi movements that decry the use of digital technology, but it doesn't hurt to plug into a digital recorder or a software recorder - but that doesn't take away from the fact that people just don't put any effort into crafting their records anymore. its muddy, or too mid-toned, or the bass is cut, or the drums are too in your face (and usually not good). a lot of electronic music gets it right because you have to work with each instrument in a seperate channel, so the mixing process involves a good deal of panning or rotating the instruments to different ears/sides to find a good balance. but rock music and a lot of guitar based music lacks in the effort to even put the instruments away from the center of the recording.

im grumpy about it. pooh.

[polishmike]

Just saw this thing. I can already see omc's head exploding

[wEstSidE]

WTF????

i'm not a hater, but that is just STOOPS. seriously.

[polishmike]

It's just business. I don't see anyone just deciding that now for some reason they need one of those. ipods are popular and idiots will buy anything.

[wEstSidE]

do they seriously not realize the folly?

who the fuck in the av industry works with an IPOD? everyone i know fucking hates it. can that piece of shit even play lossless?

[poly800rock]

has anyone noticed how poorly records are produced these days? mixing is such an afterthought for these pro-tools users, and no one takes the time to properly craft a record anymore. the perfect sound of a record for me is something like Beggar's Banquet or Village Green Preservation Society (by the Rolling Stones and The Kinks, respectively). what happened to finding the right balance between guitar and keys, or just having a full sounding kit with the bass drum NOT mic'd so it doesnt sound like a monkey beating on a plastic trash can. there was just so much more thought put into records, and not to say that there aren't any records with great production these days, but the aforementioned records and others like Ogden's Nut Gone Flake by the Small Faces or Music from the Big Pink by the Band or Stand! by Sly and the Family Stone, just sound like such stately and well-honed records, but today its hard to find something with such grace or pomp, and its unfortunate. with all the advances in production you would think that people would try and keep at least a standard of grace in their production. i mean obviously theres the analog and lo-fi movements that decry the use of digital technology, but it doesn't hurt to plug into a digital recorder or a software recorder - but that doesn't take away from the fact that people just don't put any effort into crafting their records anymore. its muddy, or too mid-toned, or the bass is cut, or the drums are too in your face (and usually not good). a lot of electronic music gets it right because you have to work with each instrument in a seperate channel, so the mixing process involves a good deal of panning or rotating the instruments to different ears/sides to find a good balance. but rock music and a lot of guitar based music lacks in the effort to even put the instruments away from the center of the recording.

im grumpy about it. pooh.

the reason computers killed music

[polishmike]

Well, if they send one for free to p.diddy and some idiots see it in his studio that will sell like crazy. I set up computers at some recording studios in Newark that didn't really seem to be bought with legitimate money and those guys would buy anything cool cause they had no clue.

Alesis Product Manager Jim Norman said, “Our research showed that most of our customers own iPods, and wanted a way to utilize them for various installation situations such as churches, clubs and conference rooms. The iMultiMix 9R is the perfect way to integrate iPod playback and pro-quality mixing in a studio environment.” The Alesis iMultiMix 9R will be available in late 2007 for $399.

First class bullshit but the company didn't really spend any money on r&d. They just added an ipod dock to a mixer they were already making.

btw it can play lossless, but i see no point to do it

[wEstSidE]

what formats? it's still a POS

[Spike]

I have no idea how the hell some of you are coming up with the conclusion that "computers killed music" and that Pro Tools is some sort of evil. Pro Tools is a tool and is completely subject to the level of skill of its operator. There have been a shitload of amazing mixes that have been done in the box on Pro Tools, much in the same way that there have been plenty of horrible mixes done on very expensive analog setups.

[feather]

We're in the age of 2-min instant noodle disposable music. Computers introduce a lot more noise to the signal-to-noise ratio because any fuckwit who can click a mouse can produce a "track" now. But the tools in the right hands also give proficient producers more power, just have to sift through more. I also think it's partly the internet's fault. The ease of communication and proliferation of data, sharing music, means if something is "hot," the trend catches on like wild fire and you hear the same shit for the next year until it backfires and implodes. I propose we all go back to our caves and bring back the hide drums.

[keagan]

"Bad music" didn't roll around when computers started popping up in everyones house...

There has always been "bad music".

pro tools is complete shit, by the way. Also quite expensive, if you're buying pro tools you must know at least a little about what you're doing; not just some "fuckwit clicking a mouse".

effort ≠ "good music".

[m@!]

i think the internet is more at fault for the idea of more bad music only because we're forced to hear SOOO much of it. who in here is old enough to remember placing the tape recorder next to a radio to record your favorite songs? or actually creating a MIX-TAPE. you find your little gf, kiss her after playing a long day and night of kickball, and you go home and work on your mix-tape. there was so much more effort involved then which made people appreciate it more. i used to spend hours calculating times, tracklistings, and actually recording the tapes. times were great.

then if you heard a really great song and it was stuck in your head then you had to DIG to find it. there was no logging on and googling lyrics to find the artist. it would take me weeks or sometimes not at all to find the name of a song. then after you found the song, there wasn't the ability to logon to the internet and download the mp3 via. broadband internet connections. you had to work (mow lawns, recycle, whatever) or go to turtles and turn in your turtles stamps. those were the days.

maybe i'm old-school but that's just the way i see it. there's been bad music since there's been music but now we're just exposed to more of it. you can really thank the major record labels for actually signing a lot of that crap and then you can thank your local radio stations for actually playing it and then last but not least you can thank your peers listening to the radio station for actually calling in to REQUEST it.

finding good music now is an art. the effort isn't put into creating the perfect mix-tape but just digging to actually discover it.

[jeepster]

I have no idea how the hell some of you are coming up with the conclusion that "computers killed music" and that Pro Tools is some sort of evil. Pro Tools is a tool and is completely subject to the level of skill of its operator. There have been a shitload of amazing mixes that have been done in the box on Pro Tools, much in the same way that there have been plenty of horrible mixes done on very expensive analog setups.

"Bad music" didn't roll around when computers started popping up in everyones house...

There has always been "bad music".

pro tools is complete shit, by the way. Also quite expensive, if you're buying pro tools you must know at least a little about what you're doing; not just some "fuckwit clicking a mouse".

effort ≠ "good music".

i never said music was bad due to computers. there is plenty of good music that is digitally crafted and done with computers. im saying that a lot of records sound as if the effort was not taken to properly put it together, like it was a hack/slash job to just get the money. i mean obviously that doesn't hold true for all, but many producers seem to just be in it for the money. Just Blaze gets upwards of $200,000 for a beat that he probably has just lying around and half assed.

pro-tools is shit, but it is just a production tool. it gets the job done. and yes, its true, effort does not equal good music (but thats purely objective), so if an album obviously sounds as if the effort was put into it, the production will reflect that.

[wEstSidE]

justblaze is a far better musician than you give him credit for. he goes the extra mile.

[jeepster]

justblaze is a far better musician than you give him credit for. he goes the extra mile.

of course, and im not trying to discredit him. but its definately not the level of musicianship as to actually preform the drums from "funky drummer" by james brown, rather than sample it. i just feel like things have become marginalized and trivialized in production these days. too much time spent on small things, and not enough time spent on the whole project.

[poly800rock]

"Bad music" didn't roll around when computers started popping up in everyones house...

There has always been "bad music".

pro tools is complete shit, by the way. Also quite expensive, if you're buying pro tools you must know at least a little about what you're doing; not just some "fuckwit clicking a mouse".

effort ≠ "good music".

of course there has always been bad music. but it's a combination of so many things. When is the last time you actually saw a demo tape? When was the last time you saw an independent band without a myspace page? Not to say this is all the immediate cause of music, but certainly can't deny that there are more bands than ever doing it now because of the ease of technology. I can even see a dramatic difference on every level since 8 years ago when I started playing in bands and recording, and then talk to anyone who toured in the early 90's and ask them about how easy it was to book a tour compared to now. I don't blame pro tools, as you stated you need some working knowledge to even get it up and running, and to blame an idiotproof program like garageband or logic would be fruitless as well. It's always a catch-22 with production, because no one will discredit the ease of technology, but at the same time, I do believe the art of recording has been cheapened. Ask any pimply kid recording on logic on what side of the reels the drums and bass should go and you should get your answer right there.

[keagan]

yeah, I see what you're saying.

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[Mr Fingers]

then talk to anyone who toured in the early 90's and ask them about how easy it was to book a tour compared to now.

No kidding. When I first started playing in bands (early-mid 90s), all the older folks were complaining about how the 7" single and MRR's Book Your Own Fucking Life ruined music; every band had their own 7" and attempted to tour in summer and the majority of them weren't ready for it. There's definitely some truth there but the reality of it was more complicated then and it's certainly much more complicated now.

[poly800rock]

No kidding. When I first started playing in bands (early-mid 90s), all the older folks were complaining about how the 7" single and MRR's Book Your Own Fucking Life ruined music; every band had their own 7" and attempted to tour in summer and the majority of them weren't ready for it. There's definitely some truth there but the reality of it was more complicated then and it's certainly much more complicated now.

Even in the mid-90's i feel like you could still get decent shows and crowds in most major cities. Nowadays, even if you do get a tour, your venues will suck and your crowd will suck even more. BYOFL is now completely obsolete and every dickwad scenester has his hand in booking shows for the city.

[m@!]

yeah, I see what you're saying.

youtube links

yeah those are some pretty bad examples much like this guitarist. i'm sure other guitarists could make this sound good though.

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good example of fruity loops

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[feather]

Read this interview with Sasha. He's not a band but he talks about producing music digitally while retaining some of that analogue feel, thought it might be interesting for this thread.

Moving our discussion from the booth into the studio, I ask Sasha about how the advent of affordable professional-quality software-based audio recording packages such as Ableton Live has changed the way he makes music. “It's very nice to have the cash, to have the option to go into a big room and to mix your tracks down through all that analogue gear,†he explains. “It gives you a beautiful edge that you just can't recreate with a computer.†In order to inject some of that analogue warmth back into his software-based compositions, Sasha has turned to using a combination of his laptop – an Apple Macintosh – and external analogue components. “I've been investing in a lot of outboard analogue gear myself for my own studio to try and get the warmth back,†he says.

As Sasha sees it, this hybrid approach has given him the best of both worlds – the sonic quality of analogue gear, with the convenience and portability of a software-based solution. “Gone are the days of me spending four or five days in a big studio doing a remix,†he explains. “Now I do all the work at home, and maybe if it's got a big budget we get to the last stage, and we go into a big studio and mix it down. I understand how with the advent of computers the big studios are really struggling to keep it together, you know? Back in the early 90s there was no other way to get that sound, but now it is so easy to make good-sounding records.â€

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[heBAY]

the reason computers killed music

Amen, I'm going back from digital to analog dammit.