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naturaljax

Music Producers / Studio Thread

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Good discussions going on here, especially getting the kick and bass to work together. The video at this link is all about mixing and mastering electronic music and there's a whole section about different kick and bass techniques:

http://arnout.engelen.eu/files/video/

I highly recommend watching it, be warned though its over an hour long and it's definitely not for beginners.

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i like, are all of your drums sampled?

Thanks alot! Some drums are sampled, usually only snares. I've downloaded numerous torrents with 1500+ drum sounds, which i usually just pick and choose from. I also have a set of sampled drums that i took from old funk and soul tracks. Whatever feels right :)

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I am tempted to get a sub... But the KRK10 is $400. If I sold my KRKs for say $200, It would only cost me $300 (plus the money made back from the selling of my current monitors) for something which could put out the sub frequencies... Also, subs are hard to set up right?

Don't use a sub personally. And you should be fine with 5 inch monitors... if you're sat at the correct 30 degree angle on a normal sized desk in your bedroom or whatever you definitely don't need bigger speakers, unless you like listening to things at ear damaging levels. I have mine at about half volume and that can get pretty ear bleeding if I pump the faders up.

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Well that's the problem. I can't hear, and therefore can't mix, the sub bass at normal mixing levels. Thus, I have to crank it up which leads to ear fatique.

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use your krks, and do your sub with headphones.....headphones go pretty low, you can get a good idea from these, but i think you need to use a analizer more oftern........if your speakers have no sub frequencys below 50/60 hz, no matter how much you crank them up, your not gonna be getting true sub, cos it just aint there.....all youll get is the sound of your room..........also its good practice to cut all frequencys from a master at anywhere beetween 20/35/40 hz, depending on what you produce,.....theres nothing much under 20hz...only rumble...

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Well, I'm trying to build a studio that will last 5-8 years. Computers might come and go etc but it would be really nice to have basically what I need in terms of monitors now. How did you find your NS10s?

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ns10s would be my choice monitor, ive used them for years, most studios have them, and when it sounds good on them, it will translate to everything else.......but........they are very nasty monitors. good monitors arnet suposed to sound good, they are meant to be true. and i find i can get a good mix with them cos i know them, i know there weakness, and i know there strong points.......ns10s arnet the only monitor i use though, i have aura tones,...well awful tones as they are known, i have a tannoy for sub, i just check my sub on this mono speaker because it goes down to about 15hz. i have some big 'hifi' sony speakers too,...i just listen to music on those though, and of course all the headphones and all the other stuff i come into contact with....

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Yeah, I just read a Sound On Sound article on the NS10's and why they're so popular. People think that "if it sounds good on the NS10 it will sound good on anything" because the NS10 sounds bad, but that's not what this article said. It claimed that they were SO flat that they had absolutely no mercy on the imperfections in your mix. I'm interested in getting a pair, but at the same time I'm not sure if I like the idea of not having any type of warranty since they stopped making them in 2001.

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haha yep i read that article, ive got the ns10 issue from years ago,.....basicly you either love them or hate them....they are marmite.....you can still buy the tweeters and woofers for them, lots of places sell them...even ebay,....but i think a set of the bay might be a bit pricey these days??? also you need an amp for them aswell, and getting a good amp to work well with them,...now thats a whole other story........i would stick with what youve got, they are not a bad monitor, some days i wish i could mix on krks.....

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Well when I originally bought them, I was upgrading from a Sony surround sound system loosely tacked to the walls so I noticed a big difference but now I'm begining to notice that my mixes that sound clear and bright and full of bass on my monitors sound dull and muddy everywhere else. I usually mix-as-I-go and then spend a few days just making sure everything works so it's not like I'm mixing haphazardly. I'll be rearranging my room very soon and adding bass traps so that will make a big difference I hope but I can't say I'm really satisfied with the KRK's.

Anyway, I'm finding that people at Guitar Center (and places like it) are not good at helping you choose whatsoever. I went in looking to listen to some monitors, and brought a CD of tracks that I'm familiar with in terms of sound and this fat girl with dreads wouldn't even play them. I said I make electronic music and am looking for as flat of a speaker as I can find and she grabbed some box of M-Audio speakers that had to have 3" subs, hooked them up and played Daft Punk's Harder Better Faster Stronger. I didn't buy anything that night, went home, tried to do some research on the other forum I'm on (idmforums.com) and they reccomended KRK like crazy. Looking back, most people on that forum are broke and probably didn't have any other options so KRK monitors are the best thing that's happened to thier studios.

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in all speaking i would say stick with your krks, learn them, set them up properly, get them away from the walls, make sure they dont vibrate, sit in the correct pssition, dont mix at ear blistering levels......when i go to audio shops all i see is krks, they are everyehere, and they do have alot of ads in the mags, also i think alot of people 'like' them because of the yellow cones.....i know its a silly thing to say, but i bet it does add to there popularity........they are good monitors.....buying new ones isnt gonna turn your mixes into better ones....learning their good and bad points will.....bass traps will make a difference, but do you know where to put them?...also the shape of a room is very important in getting a true sound, the more semetrical the better,....or however you spell that damn word.....

edit, you say your mix sounds brite and clear on your krks, but when you listen elsewhere its muddy??? what speakers are elsewhere?.....im guessing hifi speakers?.......thats why you need some good flat monitors, to get a flat mix, all hifi speakers are hyped in the top and bottom end, its 'pleasing' to our ears....your krks are good, seriously....

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to be honest, that looks pretty good to me, you have to work with what you have you know.... this is your bedroom so you have to compensate.....i see you have the bed behind your mixing position, this is a good idea cos its soft and will suck up the waves, i could nit pic,......but in all honesty i think you have come up with the best solution for your room, maybe move your bass traps in line with your monitors, and your good to go.............everyone can get real anal with this studio stuff, i know cos im like it too,....well not as much as i used to be.......if your tracks are truly great, noooo matter how badly mixed they are, you will get noticed...:)

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Yeah that's what I'm hoping for man. Thanks!

I must admit, it's really really fun to constantly try to improve one's setup. I work a dead-end job on the weekends too, so I guess new studio kops keep me working and gives me something to look forward to. You know what I'm talking about.

Ps. Whoever posted that hour long video, thank you so much. Very helpful. Only thing is it's made me realize Ableton's EQ is not able to make such extreme cuts. :(

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which version of ableton u use?...eq and compression in ableton is pretty sub standard.......get a good eq plug in and a good selection of compressors, my fave eqs are oxfords, waves, but theres eq for precise cleanliness, and eq for colour, the same goes with compression, some of my fave in the box are psp, ssl, sonalksis etc etc.......

edit....by far the best stuff inside the cpu is uad stuff.....you need the card though......

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which version of ableton u use?...eq and compression in ableton is pretty sub standard.......get a good eq plug in and a good selection of compressors, my fave eqs are oxfords, waves, but theres eq for precise cleanliness, and eq for colour, the same goes with compression, some of my fave in the box are psp, ssl, sonalksis etc etc.......

edit....by far the best stuff inside the cpu is uad stuff.....you need the card though......

I use Live 7. I was thinking of getting that package of all the plugins on that stick thing.

EDIT: Was working on a song yesterday, sounded great. Checked with headphones, wasn't even playing the bass in key but I couldn't tell.

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Damn. Too bad I don't even like NIN that much.

Little advice... quit producing and just sit and listen to NIN records for 6 months or so. The stuff that Trent Reznor was doing in 1992 was absolutely amazing for it's era, and of the hundreds of acts I've seen one of the absolute greats. I'm letting you off on the basis of your age, otherwise you could consider yourself disowned! Seeing that shit on eBay makes me realise that NIN actually might well be done with this time, though I somehow doubt Trent Reznor is done writing music... probably just going into film scores, total electronic music or something else like that.

On a vaguely relevant note I was thinking just yesterday that there's a lot to be learnt from older electronic music, especially if you want to do what you want to and be more 'musical' (as someone with a fair shout of classical and jazz training I use the term loosely, as it's a terribly inappropriate and misused word). Main thing I remembered was the 'pump' from the kick/bass sidechain, and harking back to the late 90s when trance took over there was no such thing to my knowledge. For the most part on near enough every single track released around '99 or so the bass only landed on the offbeat: kick-bass-kick-bass-kick-bass-kick-bass.

The other thought that struck me was that most of these rules very much primarily apply to four-on-the-floor Euro-wank. Listening to, for the sake of example, Burial (as probably the most iconic producer of our times), most of these rules are very much not in evidence. The kick doesn't drive the track, in fact the dominant drive is in the mid range; most of the drum sounds including the hihat have had a pile of treble filtered out of them; the tracks aren't mastered to ear-splitting levels etc. Not really sure what that highlights apart from the fact that concepts of 'good' production values are cyclical and subject to change (and rehashing, see: post-punk/chamber pop/Phil Spector/shoegaze/New Romanitic revivals etc.) just as the cuts of our jeans change in a cyclical fashion.

Beer fuelled ramblings over.

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Little advice... quit producing and just sit and listen to NIN records for 6 months or so. The stuff that Trent Reznor was doing in 1992 was absolutely amazing for it's era, and of the hundreds of acts I've seen one of the absolute greats. I'm letting you off on the basis of your age, otherwise you could consider yourself disowned! Seeing that shit on eBay makes me realise that NIN actually might well be done with this time, though I somehow doubt Trent Reznor is done writing music... probably just going into film scores, total electronic music or something else like that.

I've heard he's working on some other project and just taking a break from the live NIN stuff for a couple of years. I'm legitimately pretty bummed that I missed the last tour even though I haven't been listening to NIN too much recently. The Downward Spiral still sounds great.

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^that main 'drone' type sound is too loud, also the kick lacks any real punch, sounds very poppy/too much high end, that's what i noticed on first listen

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Intro reminds me of Clockwork Orange.

Intro could be more epic and then have a crazy drop other than just a build up to be honest.

It gets a bit redundant.

But still, pretty cool for like a driving-type song. If that's what you were going for you hit the nail on the head.

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i have no idea what i was going for really, start to finish in a few hours haha any tips for epicness in the intro? you mean more synth or drum elements? or both?

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i have no idea what i was going for really, start to finish in a few hours haha any tips for epicness in the intro? you mean more synth or drum elements? or both?

I'd say more synth elements. Because the intro is sort of dark, and when the vocal comes in I was like "wow" but then the drums lacked that wow factor. Maybe change the melody when the drum comes in too? I can appreciate the steady grooving of the track now, but I think in a remix contest the "hardness" comes in handy.

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need opinions on this remix, have a listen, i haven't submitted it yet

http://soundcloud.com/royalefatale

you say its for a remix comp......im guessing the samples come from a mag or online somewhere and you just bolted it together? which is fine, they are good quality samples, and a great vocal, but take away the vocal and what do you have?........ chop the vocal up, screw with it, get the track into line, ie for a track like this i would say, intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, outro.maybe?.....at the moment to me it sounds like an accapella and a few standard samps........make it your own.

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gotcha, it is kind of a mess arrangement wise, the thing is i don't really remember having two verses to work with in the original, which makes it kind of tough for a standard intro,verse,chorus,verse, etc unless i just duplicate the first verse, i'll have to take another listen, thanks for the advice though i'll keep you guys updated!

ps. all of the samples can be DL'd here if any of you want to have a go, i found it through findremix.com

http://soundcloud.com/thesharpestsword

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You guys might appreciate this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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ROYALEFATALE, chop the vocal up, you dont need to use all of it??? find a good bit, put some filter and effects on it, and you have a great hook, good on you for putting the link to the samples up for everyone, id love to have a fiddle with them for a day, when i have time.....

HAPLIOD,.......just shows you how easy it really can be.....what a sh1tehot track too, ive loved the prodigy for time now........imo, all the best tracks come together really quickly, most of my best stuff has been down in a couple hours......then weeks fiddling with it :mad: .

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i thought about doing that, using part of the vocal as a hook that repeats but in the end i like the more cinematic/soundscape vibe rather than a constant 4/4 kick driving the entire track, i'm anxious to see what you do with it though

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haha, yep i wanna have a go with it.......but i dont think its gonna happen this year.......all my gear is in the loft.....i s'pose i could load ableton up and have a fiddle with headphones though?....its good to see what different people come up with, different styles, production techniques etc....its a really great vocal, and something real good could be made with it......get on the case!!!

edit, what are you using ROYALEFATALE??

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