Sunrise muddyed jeans/On mud dying in general

[zissou]

Yeah, I don't think I can get behind this new color, either. They are very orange. My daughter told me they look like clown pants Time to order some grey dye. Although, dying them brown would be a much safer bet. Maybe I'll do one more bleaching and see how light they get...

[almostnice]

or turn into a sannyasin and pray to bhagwan.

[zissou]

Well, I've got the shaved head already!

[almostnice]

all you need then is a cherrywooden chain with an image of Osho hanging from it.

[nixon]

Ok, here's my attempt at a semi-comprehensive kakishibu/persimmon dye post.

I bought a liter of odorless kakishibu from here: http://www.kakishibui.com/products.html

I went with odorless because it's only a little more and I didn't want any surprises when I got it. To order you have to email Chris, the lady who runs that site. She was extremely helpful and gave me some advice on the process.

I then started dyeing stuff using these instructions (also written by Chris): http://www.weavezine.com/winter2008/wz_wi08_ChrisConrad.php

I do have to note though, I just eyeballed the amount of water and dye I put in, so I don't know what concentrations are good to use, etc.

Here's an old undershirt I dyed and then left wrinkled up:

Here's a better representation of the color:

As noted in the article above, kakishibu-dyed garments change color over time. The original color was a very light tan with a pinkish base. However, after a couple washes and a couple months, the color has darkened quite a bit so it's more brown, although you can still see some reddish undertones. If you leave freshly dyed garments out in the sun, you will get a much darker brown color. Unfortunately, I can't remember if I left this one in the sun or not. Based on the color, I think it might've been in the sun for an hour or so. I don't have much experience with this as I dyed the shirts late afternoon and the sun went down before they were dried completely, so I gave up trying.

The article also mentions dipping kakishibu-dyed garments in a mixture of ferrous sulfate and water to get a gray color. I was able to get a bottle of 100 65mg pills for $2 at Target, so I gave it a shot.

Here's my first attempt:

This was dipped once in kakishibu and then dipped in a bowl of water with two pills (110mg iron) dissolved in it. I don't remember the exact amount of water I used, but I'm sure you could find some information on a dyeing site. I dried this one flat so I could get an even color.

Here's my second attempt at a darker gray:

This one I dipped once in kakishibu and left it wrinkled up. Then I dipped it in a bowl of water with three pills (175mg iron). Based on these results, I would strongly recommend never going over 110mg, since the darker gray parts are where the kakishibu was darker anyways. Also, as the weavezine article I linked above mentions, lots of iron will damage your fabric. You see that obvious line sticking up in the picture above? That's pretty much what happens. I also noticed a couple holes on the cuffs of this shirt.

Then I tried a belt I sewed (ignore its awful construction):

For this one I dipped it in kakishibu, let it dry overnight and then dipped it again. Then I put it in water with 110mg iron and it came out a pretty neat color, since you can still see the brown a little bit under the gray. This also confirmed that the darkness of the kakishibu dictates how dark the gray is. This is probably obvious to most of you who have more experience than me

So overall, I'm satisfied with the results. I originally bought it thinking it'd dye things a perfect khaki color, which I'm sure I could get if I worked at it, so I was disappointed at first. After experimenting though, I really like the variety of color it can produces.

Note also that the dye will rub off over time since it's really just a coating and not a dye. I've only worn/washed my shirts around 3 times apiece and they're already noticeably lighter.

[zissou]

Great job, nixon! It looks like if you want a khaki color, that you could use a weaker concentration of the kakishibu? This might be fun to use to overdye (white?) denim to see how it fades over time. Great stuff- be sure to post more results if you try again.

[nixon]

Overdyeing white jeans is actually what I originally bought it to do, but then backed off cause I figured t-shirts are no problem to ruin

And yeah, I think diluting it a lot and then sun drying it might help get rid of the red tones and get closer to khaki. It's something I'll try once it warms up a little and I have time.

[Wu Dynasty]

Subscribed! I had a lot of fun reading through this thread and I'm looking forward to whatever future projects you all have.

[zissou]

Well, I just tried bleaching my Apolis Activism trousers again, and they aren't any less orange! I could go with a higher concentration of bleach, but I think I'd run the risk of damaging the fabric.

Now I need to decide if I should go with dyeing them slate grey or just be safe and go with brown...

[dkatz]

Reading this thread for me has gone like this: read a few posts, look at pants, read a few more posts, look at pants, etc. I've been admiring (wrong word) the fact that the dirt here turns EVERYTHING a delightfully grubby shade of orangeybrown... which is damn near impossible to remove. (Okay, truthfully it comes out pretty well on most garments I wash frequently... but my jeans are permanently stained in parts)

It got me thinking two things:

1. I wonder if the dirt has high ferrous/tannin content and could actually be used in dyeing? Could be cool to find myself a pair of white jeans and see what I could do.

2. Once I'm done with the SExDBxS09 contest, I should look into a pair of jeans dyed with a non-indigo substance that would more closely match the color my jeans turn here anyway... persimmon? some sort of natural khaki? samurai s5000cx?

[Christmas In A Submarine.]

Reading this thread for me has gone like this: read a few posts, look at pants, read a few more posts, look at pants, etc. I've been admiring (wrong word) the fact that the dirt here turns EVERYTHING a delightfully grubby shade of orangeybrown... which is damn near impossible to remove. (Okay, truthfully it comes out pretty well on most garments I wash frequently... but my jeans are permanently stained in parts)

It got me thinking two things:

1. I wonder if the dirt has high ferrous/tannin content and could actually be used in dyeing? Could be cool to find myself a pair of white jeans and see what I could do.

2. Once I'm done with the SExDBxS09 contest, I should look into a pair of jeans dyed with a non-indigo substance that would more closely match the color my jeans turn here anyway... persimmon? some sort of natural khaki? samurai s5000cx?

" red dirt really can be used as a dye, though the only long-lasting color to result, iron buff, is a tan color, not the exciting bright red color of clay that inspires people to want to use it for dyeing. The easiest way to get a long-lasting bright color from red clay is to use it as a pigment and mix it with a clear acrylic binder manufactured for use in fabric paint, such as Versatex Clear Extender. A traditional Japanese alternative would be to use freshly made soy milk as a binder, though the results are less resistant to laundering; see Table Rock Llamas for one set of instructions."

from here.

Despite that article, I know that some clothing companies use red clay dirt as a dye and it definitely looks red. I'm not sure how it's done,

Here is an article with a photo that looks pretty dang red. However they do mention that it will fade over time. However they note that it "eventually fades gracefully, like the blue in denim jeans."

I'm sure no one here would object to that.

[zissou]

The latest update on my bleaching/dyeing process. I thought I'd also try dyeing an unbleached chambray (from Okayama) shirt along with the Apolis Activism trousers that I bleached to orange.

I decided to try this new dye that you just throw into the washer.

Made a big mess!

The results pretty much sucked. Neither garment was well dyed, and the shirt came out a grey-purple.

So, I said to hell with it and dyed them again in a bucket of hot water and Rit. Right now, they are in the wash with some fixative.

[herefortheswap]

Reading this thread for me has gone like this: read a few posts, look at pants, read a few more posts, look at pants, etc. I've been admiring (wrong word) the fact that the dirt here turns EVERYTHING a delightfully grubby shade of orangeybrown... which is damn near impossible to remove. (Okay, truthfully it comes out pretty well on most garments I wash frequently... but my jeans are permanently stained in parts)

It got me thinking two things:

1. I wonder if the dirt has high ferrous/tannin content and could actually be used in dyeing? Could be cool to find myself a pair of white jeans and see what I could do.

2. Once I'm done with the SExDBxS09 contest, I should look into a pair of jeans dyed with a non-indigo substance that would more closely match the color my jeans turn here anyway... persimmon? some sort of natural khaki? samurai s5000cx?

Kakishibu jeans are REALLY hard to come by. The only ones I know of currently in production are the Julian Red ones (which look to be shit and overpriced, the color is extremely light and they cost as much as the Samurai ones were, which were far better though an 05 or 07 limited run)

Tossing white jeans in a mud from Hawaii's red dirt would probably cause some lasting orange color (if it can stain hands/feet for days....)

Zissou, unfortunate about the results (why you would experiment with that shirt and not some rag first is beyond me though lol)

[dkatz]

Here's to bumping a thread on the anniversary of its last post!

After a year of "planning to" do it, I finally took my first crack at dirt-dyeing using the rich red dirt of Uganda. Here's the tale (with lots of pictures):

Pre-game time: acquire materials

DIRT:

CHECK.

I decided to dye two shirts concurrently, with the only difference being a pretreatment of one and no pretreatment of the other

Article one: a 7000 Ugandan Shilling (~$3) t-shirt under the "Crocodile" brand, made of organic cotton by Ugandan textile company, Phenix

Article two: pretty much the same thing but with polo shirt collar (definitely t-shirt material)

SHIRTS: CHECK

Step 1: Pretreatment

Most information I read suggested some pretreatment of the fabric. I decided to try tea for this first time 'round. Apparently the tannins in the tea help the ferrous (iron) dyeing agents in the dirt to bind better.

Right-o, tea time!

2 litres of water + 1.5 cups of loose tea

Missing the tea-biscuits...

Supporting local industry with some tea from Mukono district.

You know it's good because the foil is gold...?

a few hours later. Mmmm, tasty.

Decided to change into a shirt I didn't mind mussing up. How about the one I used to mop the indigo out of the wash basin after soaking ROYxCones

more in a moment...

[dkatz]

Rinsed it 'til the water ran clear - I dig the color!

threads must be polyester since they didn't pick up any dye

Part 2: Dyeing

Now for the tasty part: MUD.

6L water, 12 3/4 cups soil, 2 1/4 cup vinegar

I read that the vinegar helps bind the dyeing agent to the cotton

The non pre-treated shirt goes in the mix too

Getting my stir on

Anyone hungry for stew?

Simmered for 1.5 hours on the stove then let 'em soak for another 2.5 hours. Stirred occasionally to get even dyeing.

Part 3: post-treatment

Squeezed the mud out then dipped in 1 gallon of water + 1 cup of vinegar. Apparently the vinegar helps bind the dyes (again...)

Screw it, might as well throw this shirt in too!

Not clean yet...

[beatle]

turned out really nice - fun project...

[dkatz]

The plan was to continue washing until the water ran clean, but after 2 agitated soaks + spins and 3 washes (with Dr. Bronner's), the water was still running a bit pinkish.

The end result, Sunday evening. Shirt one: the pretreated shirt

Shirt two: the non-pretreated shirt

Interesting how there's no discernible difference in the color of the pretreated versus non-pretreated shirts. Hm.

Some sunlit shots this morning

[forgot to take pictures of the pretreated shirt, but it looks about the same as the non-pretreated one]

wound up with some striation in the color

And the indigo-stained shirt

Interesting how it looks like the indigo repelled the dirt-dye.

In sum, the shirts did take on some of the color, but definitely not nearly as dark as I was hoping. My theories for why they didn't stay darker:

1. Is this vinegar actually a vinegar dilute, and thus less potent as a binding agent?

2. Maybe I should have simmered the shirts in the dirt for the full 4 hours, rather than just 1.5 hours

3. Maybe I should have applied heat after rinsing off the mud (via ironing or throwing in a dryer)

4. Maybe a stronger pre-dye treatment was needed - such as using freshly-made soymilk as I saw recommended a couple places

I'll keep you all posted on future attempts!

And I leave you with today's fit pic. The polo fits like crap, but I figured I should at least wear it once!

[lostinthesupermarket]

Great stuff dkatz. Can't rep but will be back to you.

[ThisSunday]

I had forgotten about this thread. Great job dkatz. Wonder if zissou gave up on those Apolis pants

[Davil]

Are these guys still around?

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 10, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Davil]

Thanks Hoggreaser

[Max Power]

I always wanted to see a faded pair of these...thoughI can imagine, why they didn't sell that well.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

The 3 main models on their website are all pretty normal. I'm digging the two-tone stitching all over, just like Evisu did.

Too bad they only indicate waist measurements and nothing else

[Davil]

Yeah I really want to see how they evo but there's not really anything out there.  The website isn't that easy to order from either.