Thought on APC

[jjs home]

is it possible that APC really isn't as quality brand as SF has been saying lately?

like I know APC is most of ya'lls favorite brand of all time on this site, but is it possible that the reason that they are so popular is because they directly serve the current trend in denim, which is being able to be broken in extreemly fast? I'm far from a denim expert compared to certain truly knowledgeable folks who post here, but doesn't it seem that APC's wear out almost too quickly and then stretch in contact areas too severaly?

is it possible that APC is just not that great denim, with poor dye jobs that make it easier for them to give the desired naturally faded look in a shorter time span? like I've seen some worn in APCs where the knees look like old parachute pants and the wear in creases, wiskers, and honey combs look like the indago was just sluffed off.

think about it. They are one of the cheapest selvedge brands out, and they show to break in extremly quickly for many here, like suspiciously too quickly. It seems as if they've caught the exact wave of superficiality that has proppeled them foward lately. the trend is breaknig in jeans yourself, and what better way to capitaize then making a jean thats so crappily handled that even a newbie trend hopper can break in a pair plenty fast

again I don't know, I'm just an observer, but it does seem weird that these things get chipped up in 4 weeks and get granny panty knees after real wear

eevryone feel fre to ad thought, I'm interested to see what the real afficianados have to say

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Edited by jjs home on Oct 3, 2005 at 10:25 PM

[super]

AFAIK, APC has been making selvage for many years prior to the whole "selvage bandwagon effect" of the late.

[kiz]

i've been wearing my rescues everyday since mid march, and they're not THAT broken in. for the 120 dollars i paid, these jeans have definitely been worth it.

[darknworn]

first, use the edit button...i can hardly read out what your argument was about...

second, APC has been making selvage jeans for over a decade...it is us denimheads, who are catching on to their bandwagon and not the other way around.

third, i have two pairs of APC jeans, both are made with attention to detail hardly found in any other brands in their price range.

fourth, i really appreciate the simplicity nature of their designs. surely you cannot find fault with simplicity.

fifth, if you wear APC jeans like a normal person and not go skating in them, they will last for years. just because their denim isn't as thick and heavy as some of the other japanese brands, doesn't mean APC jeans will wear out more quickly.

sixth, the bulging of the knees resulted from a tight fit, not because of the inferior quality of the denim itself.

finally, the quality control may have gone downhill in respect to the waist measurement issues, but this doesn't significantly detract the other qualities of a pair of APC jeans. all in all, APC jeans are still great now even when the price hike is taken into consideraton.

"God is Dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" - God

[jjs home]

just because APC has been making jeans doesn't mean they didn't

A. Always make them fairly crappy or

B. just start maknig them more crappy because crappy equals more desired for the current market

I hear all the arguments, no one makes jeans like this for this price, but for that simple reason that argument is pretty much viod, if no one else is making cheap selvedge jeans then of cuorse they'd be the best ones like them, because there are no other like them

I won't argue tahts simple and thats fnie, it really doesn't relate into what I've said. you definetly get no money no design with APCs ist just the denim and thats fine, because itd not like they are getting you for any price points there

as far as stretching goes, I dunno they didn't look like super tight jeans, they looked wild stretched for no reason

this is what I'm seenig I waiting for some real experts to chime in

DOES WHAT I SAY INTEREST YOU?

I am available for employment,

full time, part time, & consulting, depending on the numbers

I am willing to work for major companies, brands, stores, and magazines

possibly whereever you want me to work, or what gap you need filled is up for discussion, from working directly with clothes to freelance writing

feel free to inquire about anything

contact email: [email protected]

[darknworn]

Quote: A. Always make them fairly crappy or

actually, no. i have a vintage pair of "standard" jeans before they became the "new standard" and before the "new standard" got renamed to "standard". the quality of construction and denim quality are not inferior to the other good stuff i currently have, i.e. denime, nudies, evisu (old style), LVC.,. etc.,.

Quote: B. just start maknig them more crappy because crappy equals more desired for the current market

crappy = more desired??? have no idea what argument you're trying to make here.

Quote: I hear all the arguments, no one makes jeans like this for this price, but for that simple reason that argument is pretty much viod, if no one else is making cheap selvedge jeans then of cuorse they'd be the best ones like them, because there are no other like them

your deconstruction is faulty. my statement means that APC's attention to detail cannot be found in jeans in their price range, you will have to go to a higher price range to find that same level of craftmanship. it simply means that APC produces higher quality jeans at a lower price than most of their counterparts. furthermore, there are other brands making sub-$150 selvage denim, i.e. GAP, Uniqlo, JCrew, not to mention other more obscure brands.

Quote: as far as stretching goes, I dunno they didn't look like super tight jeans, they looked wild stretched for no reason

denim doesn't just stretch for "no reason". there has to be an action in order to have a reaction.

i'm no real "expert" on denim, but it doesn't mean my reasons are invalid. i'm sure ringring, serge, and co. can articulate much better than i can.

"God is Dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" - God

Edited by darknworn on Oct 3, 2005 at 10:54 PM

[andewhall]

I think Haptronic had a good point about the waistbanding machines used on APC's, thats why the sizing was a bit unpredictable.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

So, I take it you got some fuel when you read Peter/Blanc0's post on NT? Everything you said can be found in that post, so this is obviously just an excuse to bash a brand you have no experience of.

I think that Jean would actually take offence from this thread, because APC's brand is built on quality and simplicity. APC's jeans are excellent quality, just as the other garments they make, at least the ones I've tried. Their jeans do NOT wear in fast, in my experience they're pretty slow, I could show you pics of my 2months New Standards.

The sad thing is that APC will never get the same acknowledgement as more expensive jeans simply because they're not as expensive and most people cant think for themselves nor take something for what it is and not what it says on the pricetag. Btw, how the hell can you complain about APC's quality when there's stuff like prps, pdc, chip & pepper and earnest sewn and so on? there's your crappy quality and bad designs, at a much higher price.

APC is QUALITY.

anyway, haptronic answered you very well.

edit: oops I meant darknworn, not haptronic!

tally-hoo

Edited by horriblyjollyjinx on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:54 PM

Edited by horriblyjollyjinx on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:54 PM

[haptronic]

I only told you ande.

firstly, i thought the whole idea of indigo, was that it faded, so you are saying that apc's are bad because they fade fast by wear.

you never mentioned once that these jeans lose indigo all over, which would surely be a fault more than fast desired wear.

the trend at the moment is for breaking in jeans yourself. and apc are doing it well, then if they decided to do this, that is surely good design to be applauded.

the sizing inconsistancy is caused by poor tension control, by the person operating the waistbanding machine. this is a relatively common fault when using a factory that hasn't made your particular jeans before.

<center> </center>

Edited by haptronic on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:56 PM

Edited by haptronic on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:56 PM

[flex1]

I think what he is trying to get at is that APC's are good jeans, but they are not great. It is true you are getting what you pay for. APC jeans are not dipped as many times as other brands for example sugarcane, that is the main reason for why the whiskers and honeycombs aren't as distinct. They are still great selvege jeans for the price, and probably the best bang for your buck, but they are nowhere near the quality of sugarcane. just my opinion.

I would like to hear the opinions of Serge and ring ring on the matter to see their perspectives.

[haptronic]

flex1

does sugarcane do a jean that isn't a repro?

the nicest fade i've seen on a pair of jeans are my freinds 5yo evis big gull one wash <u>fake</u>

i don't think the price has as much bearing as wear on a good jean.

my favourite pictures of apc's are 1-2mo heavy with starch, deep creases in the knee, with a slight brown cast. they look like they can walk on their own.

<center> </center>

Edited by haptronic on Oct 4, 2005 at 01:48 AM

[jjs home]

I don't see whats hard to grasp abuot me saying, maybe they just statrted maknig them more crappy now. Many companies down shift their quality when they start to grow, because producing in greater volumes costs a great deal more when you stay with premium materials, so to create a lower risk you sell goods of less quality materials so that nicase you flop you lose less money. Its far from a silly concept in fact many brands do it. Right now APC is seeing an influx of new trend follownig buyers who really don't know jack about what they are buying, so why would it matter to APC no that level. Right now cheaper production costs and greater sales numbers would be a perfect marriage for a brand that could possible get took through the ringer like so many other brands that experience this type of growth. Its like selvedge denim with training wheels. make it cheap and easy to wear in so the new comers feel special about breaking in their first pair, whats unreasonable about that as a possibility?

I also fail to see whats silly about me saying the brand has no real competitors. Who else is making 140 dollar selvedge jeans? How long Have they been doing so? I feel that concept supports itself.

As far as saying I'm speaking about the words that Pete said, you're right, I am. Whats wrong with that? Why would that matter, that guys thuoghts on that brand holds a little more weight then folks claiming Evisu sucks now and so on. How would repeating the words of smoeone who does know be less credible? I'm saying it, cause from my observation it does seem so and sensible, and because people who nkow say so. Why is that Hate? What do I care? I genuinly curious. Sorry I'm not kaotaoing to the denim god that is APC

i fail to see what doesn't make sense? Make the denim lighter weight and cheaper, then give it less indigo dips, and boom you have a product easy to push to the masses, that takes less work which keeps them less impatient. Its actually very good marketing for what it is.

I ask back what makes APC better then any other brand as many have tried to make it seem over the last who knows how long? It just seems like less jeans for less money. I do find it odd it gets so much love for being the C class of selvedge denim. like yeah its a great cheap product, which is nice and all, but far from amazing as I see it. Maybe some of ya'll think different and athts perfectly fine, all I know is it definetly seems as if ya'll have tried to make it seems as if they are better then many many other more quality jeans which you all know are better just because they are cheaper.

I fail to see what so crazy about what I've said? Has APC recieved more credit then its due, as I see it quite possibly, as many of those who just discovered it in the last 12 months no its the best thing as sliced bread, and yet I'm the biased one? It seems funny that its so impossible to so many of you that APC could and would make an inferior product because its an actual market demands it. I mean honestly if someone wasn't making a easy break in denim before this discussion its quite possible they will now, because we know that there is a huge number of people hopping on this denim band wagon who wanna get the natural worn look that you all work so hard for with less work. Whats sily about that concept? like I said , if APc isn't already that why wouldn't someone else want to be that? theres money in it, its obvious

Anyways thanks for all you're points of view, some people have just assumed rediculousness for who knows what reason and others have have sung glowing praises of the product. Like I've said, I'll continue to wait on more responses from folks who really wanna address the idea for what it is, an inquiry to better nkow the product as opposed to i dunno whatever else you feel you need to think

keep em comin

DOES WHAT I SAY INTEREST YOU?

I am available for employment,

full time, part time

[haptronic]

the whole situation is rediculousness

what apc's do you own? what other jeans? if you can give constuctive comparisons then perhaps

we all might benefit.

to bring someone elses argument from another mb, and write long diatribes doesn't help anyone.

and that is alot to read.

<center> </center>

[jjs home]

I fail to see what is rediculous?

would it help a person who didn't read the other message board?

Does everyone here read all the same message boards?

I think these questions answer themselves

you seem to be feeling a certain type of way about this stuff

DOES WHAT I SAY INTEREST YOU?

I am available for employment,

full time, part time, & consulting, depending on the numbers

I am willing to work for major companies, brands, stores, and magazines

possibly whereever you want me to work, or what gap you need filled is up for discussion, from working directly with clothes to freelance writing

feel free to inquire about anything

contact email: [email protected]

Edited by jjs home on Oct 4, 2005 at 03:56 AM

[gunpwdr]

I can't speak to the quality of their jeans, but I can say the quality of their other garments is very disappointing.

I ordered some stuff online, sight unseen mind you, with the intention of returning it if I did not like the fit. Well, it was more than just fit that I didn't like. I ordered the Military-Style Winter Jacket ($364), the shorn velvet belt, and one of their neckties (polyester). The jacket just felt cheap. Really cheap. Worse than Old Navy cheap. It's 74% cotton and 26% polyamide... so I understand there's some synthetic (nylon) fabric in it... but that doesn't explain why the overall feel was so terrible.

I had intended to stop in the store on a trip up to NYC, but I wasn't able to make it... so I went out on a limb and bought these items online. I ended up keeping the belt and the tie since they're inexpensive enough... but the jacket was total crap. My wife also commented that the belt looked like something you'd get as part of a cheap Halloween costume.

So long story short, my experience has led me to conclude that APC isn't for me... jeans or otherwise.

[dr zeus]

I don't see whats hard to grasp abuot me saying, maybe they just statrted maknig them more crappy now.

i really dont have any idea where you got that from.. are you basing that on your own experience? ive got two pairs of APC's and the quality and fit is so good for the price. if you looked up old threads you'd also find out that APC takes ages to wear in, in fact with my new standards they took alot longer compared with 501XX. its been said before but APC have been making jeans for years, with stores in europe and america, they're not just going to compromise their success with crap quality denim..

and also, not to be a twat about this but if your offering to do freelance writing for fashion labels maybe you should check your spelling before posting

"You brought the fucking Pomeranian bowling?"

"I haven't brought it bowling...I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a fucking beer, it's not taking a fucking turn..."

[sr20det]

Edited by sr20det on Oct 4, 2005 at 06:46 AM

[sybaritical]

[how the hell can you complain about APC's quality when there's stuff like prps, pdc, chip & pepper and earnest sewn and so on?]

Horriblyjollyjinx, you're the first person I've heard who doesn't rate Prps .... I'm interested why you think they're sub- standard.

[flex1]

Yes, please explain the substandards of PRPS, this should be interesting. You may have an argument in regards to some of their washed denim, however you cannot deny that their selvedge denim is one of the best in the business. And even in regards to their non selvedge, they are still great japanese quality.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Quote:

I don't see whats hard to grasp abuot me saying, maybe they just statrted maknig them more crappy now. Many companies down shift their quality when they start to grow, because producing in greater volumes costs a great deal more when you stay with premium materials, so to create a lower risk you sell goods of less quality materials so that nicase you flop you lose less money. Its far from a silly concept in fact many brands do it. Right now APC is seeing an influx of new trend follownig buyers who really don't know jack about what they are buying, so why would it matter to APC no that level. Right now cheaper production costs and greater sales numbers would be a perfect marriage for a brand that could possible get took through the ringer like so many other brands that experience this type of growth. Its like selvedge denim with training wheels. make it cheap and easy to wear in so the new comers feel special about breaking in their first pair, whats unreasonable about that as a possibility?

I also fail to see whats silly about me saying the brand has no real competitors. Who else is making 140 dollar selvedge jeans? How long Have they been doing so? I feel that concept supports itself.

As far as saying I'm speaking about the words that Pete said, you're right, I am. Whats wrong with that? Why would that matter, that guys thuoghts on that brand holds a little more weight then folks claiming Evisu sucks now and so on. How would repeating the words of smoeone who does know be less credible? I'm saying it, cause from my observation it does seem so and sensible, and because people who nkow say so. Why is that Hate? What do I care? I genuinly curious. Sorry I'm not kaotaoing to the denim god that is APC

i fail to see what doesn't make sense? Make the denim lighter weight and cheaper, then give it less indigo dips, and boom you have a product easy to push to the masses, that takes less work which keeps them less impatient. Its actually very good marketing for what it is.

I ask back what makes APC better then any other brand as many have tried to make it seem over the last who knows how long? It just seems like less jeans for less money. I do find it odd it gets so much love for being the C class of selvedge denim. like yeah its a great cheap product, which is nice and all, but far from amazing as I see it. Maybe some of ya'll think different and athts perfectly fine, all I know is it definetly seems as if ya'll have tried to make it seems as if they are better then many many other more quality jeans which you all know are better just because they are cheaper.

I fail to see what so crazy about what I've said? Has APC recieved more credit then its due, as I see it quite possibly, as many of those who just discovered it in the last 12 months no its the best thing as sliced bread, and yet I'm the biased one? It seems funny that its so impossible to so many of you that APC could and would make an inferior product because its an actual market demands it. I mean honestly if someone wasn't making a easy break in denim before this discussion its quite possible they will now, because we know that there is a huge number of people hopping on this denim band wagon who wanna get the natural worn look that you all work so hard for with less work. Whats sily about that concept? like I said , if APc isn't already that why wouldn't someone else want to be that? theres money in it, its obvious

Anyways thanks for all you're points of view, some people have just assumed rediculousness for who knows what reason and others have have sung glowing praises of the product. Like I've said, I'll continue to wait on more responses from folks who really wanna address the idea for what it is, an inquiry to better nkow the product as opposed to i dunno whatever else you feel you need to think

keep em comin

--- Original message by jjs home on Oct 4, 2005 03:09 AM

How do you

[adsurgo]

youve never had a pair?

argument ends there.

[wild_whiskey]

Dude, the reason they wear in fast is because people WANT them to. They wear them while they sleep, for chrissakes. People are going through every means necessary to beat their jeans to shit. 6 months of wearing them every day with no washing is hard as hell on the denim - a pair of Levi's (shrink to fit or otherwise) would be destroyed by that time.

[Guest]

What makes APC good is the combination of several things: a good fit, good quality, a nice look and a price that is very reasonable for this product, though it is not the best in either of this, but the package is quite nice.

I think that's pretty much it. One important factor why APCs were popular on this board is that they were easily available. Many selvedge brands are either hard to buy due to physical location (eg Japanese brands that are only available in Japan) or priced very high (eg 45rpm, 5EP, PRPS etc).

So for anyone wanting to try dry selvedge, APC provided an accessible way in. Add to that, the variety of fittings, loose, regular, skinny - there's something for everyone.

Size labelling issues aside, I think APC makes very nice jeans for the money. And Jean Touitou deserves props for doing dry selvedge since 1989.

[ringring]

"What makes APC good is the combination of several things: a good fit, good quality, a nice look and a price that is very reasonable for this product, though it is not the best in either of this, but the package is quite nice."

I think that's pretty much it. One important factor why APCs were popular on this board is that they were easily available. Many selvedge brands are either hard to buy due to physical location (eg Japanese brands that are only available in Japan) or priced very high (eg 45rpm, 5EP, PRPS etc).

So for anyone wanting to try dry selvedge, APC provided an accessible way in. Add to that, the variety of fittings, loose, regular, skinny - there's something for everyone.

Size labelling issues aside, I think APC makes very nice jeans for the money. And Jean Touitou deserves props for doing dry selvedge since 1989.

[Corbin Law]

Whya re you continually suggesting that APC is the Official Jean of this board, yes it is a nice jean and often we do support them but we dont give them the huge hype you are "hyperbolating". they are as incredible jean for the price, and the quality they offer is uequivalent to a jean you might find for 200-220

chwa?

[jjs home]

Quote: Whya re you continually suggesting that APC is the Official Jean of this board

um, hello 18 pages...

http://superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=1768

I also find the whole if you don't own a pair you can't know arguement to be very faulty, because how many off you throwing dirt on Prps here and Red Monkey, and so many other brand that you people critcize, actually own those brands? hypocrit much?

and again I repeat, the most consistant comment that I've heard numerous places about APC is simply that its good for being cheap in its genre. The guy ya'll wanted to vote for president, even basically reiteratedconcepts which I said, its just nice for the price. People are saying how do you know APC's stretch and numerous other things, and its not like just one person said it, its been said here several times as well, and I'm also not the only person questioning the brands quality. Many of you claim I have some sort of agenda when ya'll are so vehement and rude about ya'll assertations, that actually looks funnier then anything I've said

DOES WHAT I SAY INTEREST YOU?

I am available for employment,

full time, part time, & consulting, depending on the numbers

I am willing to work for major companies, brands, stores, and magazines

possibly whereever you want me to work, or what gap you need filled is up for discussion, from working directly with clothes to freelance writing

feel free to inquire about anything

contact email: [email protected]

Edited by jjs home on Oct 4, 2005 at 02:15 PM

[horriblyjollyjinx]

CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE TO GET COTTON THAT DOES NOT STRETCH? SUPER REVOLUTION!

please tell me your verdict on these: http://www.rakuten.co.jp/hinoya/119706/256094/132077/

they must be poor quality and have crap indigo because they're cheaper than apc!

tally-hoo

[jjs home]

Continuing to prove my points on the attitudes

DOES WHAT I SAY INTEREST YOU?

I am available for employment,

full time, part time, & consulting, depending on the numbers

I am willing to work for major companies, brands, stores, and magazines

possibly whereever you want me to work, or what gap you need filled is up for discussion, from working directly with clothes to freelance writing

feel free to inquire about anything

contact email: [email protected]

[tangerine]

jjs home,

I think your original question, which I am reading as "has the quality of APC gone down?" is a fair one.

I am not a denim expert, or any kind of textile expert, but I have examined, bought, worn and worn out a lot of denim for a lot of years, and have bought all over the price range up to about $250 USD.

I recently bought my first pair of APC - yes, partly because of comments on this board - and I can honestly tell you that as far as I can see, the quality is excellent and the fabric and construction seem quite sturdy. They don't seem to be developing the desirable hige at all yet though I have been wearing them frequently. So, if the quality has declined at all, it is still quite good compared to other jeans I have worn.

I think you have taken a combative tone, and that is why you are getting "attitude" in return.

Just my two cents.

ask a cassowary

[neawts]

Honestly jjs home, you have an attitude too. That's what set people off in this thread.

As far as anything else you've brought up, I don't own a pair APC jeans and I don't read those threads, so I'm not going to comment on that.