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Atelier, Edwin & 45 answer

ringring

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ringring

ringring

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Someone PM'd me this question, but they must have timed out because there was no username left for me to reply to:

Hi ringring,

Since you seem to be the denim expert here could you please answer these 3 quick questions that obviously don't deserve a post ?

Do you know the retail price for:

Atelier la Durance: classic dungaree

Edwin: Nashvilles & Greenvilles

45rpm denim (I heard 750$ for a pair, is it rue?)

I couldn't really find with the search button.

Thank you very much!

And congrat. for your frequent wise posts about denim!

Here you go.

Atelier la Durance: around US$240

Edwin Nash & Greens : around US$80-125

45rpm - You heard right! They can go for a bit cheaper and a lot more than that too.

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griffin

griffin

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The $750 45rpms use natural dyes and are distressed. You can get the same pair of jeans in a raw one-wash, using synthetic dyes, for $333. The distressing is really nice: very understated, with a very natural-looking gradiant between darks and lights. Otherwise, I prefer the raw for less than half the price.

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adsurgo

adsurgo

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The $750 45rpms use natural dyes and are distressed. You can get the same pair of jeans in a raw one-wash, using synthetic dyes, for $333. The distressing is really nice: very understated, with a very natural-looking gradiant between darks and lights. Otherwise, I prefer the raw for less than half the price.

--- Original message by griffin on Sep 24, 2005 12:15 PM

i tried on the raw one wash ones... theyre madd nice. pocket selvage, hidden rivets, some nice ass quality denim, there was a few other things i thought thatwere awesome. i dont rememebr tho. the fit awesome as hell too. id really wanna check out the ones that are 750 just to see how they are. if the raw one wash ones were as nice as they were then i cant imagine the natural dye ones.
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Guest Fade to Black

Guest Fade to Black

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where can i try on regular 45rpms? not the r by 45rpm?

--- Original message by adsurgo on Sep 23, 2005 01:00 PM

Actually the "R by 45RPM" store in NYC carries the main 45 RPM jeans...i think that's just the name of the store. the 750-1000+ models are the aihiko, which come in not just distressed but also the one-wash raw denim (I hear that version of the raw denim is like 1000 Euros in Paris, so I'm sure the custom distressed is a lot more).

the 45 RPM models carried in the NYC store are the lesser priced Sorahiko model, which doesn't use the natural vegetable dye I assume (well I guess the main draw of the natural dye version is more of a mental/internal one that gives the wearer some sort of satisfaction; i can't really tell a difference), but the denim is still of superior quality, and the price is much lower than 700. I got my distressed black jeans there for $380, the one-wash indigo is as mentioned $333...

baizilla, 45 RPM jeans are of top notch quality, MUCH better than the denim used in Dior Homme jeans...which cost more than your average 45 RPM anyway.

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adsurgo

adsurgo

Posted
Posted
Quote:
Quote:

where can i try on regular 45rpms? not the r by 45rpm?

--- Original message by adsurgo on Sep 23, 2005 01:00 PM

Actually the "R by 45RPM" store in NYC carries the main 45 RPM jeans...i think that's just the name of the store. the 750-1000+ models are the aihiko, which come in not just distressed but also the one-wash raw denim (I hear that version of the raw denim is like 1000 Euros in Paris, so I'm sure the custom distressed is a lot more).

the 45 RPM models carried in the NYC store are the lesser priced Sorahiko model, which doesn't use the natural vegetable dye I assume (well I guess the main draw of the natural dye version is more of a mental/internal one that gives the wearer some sort of satisfaction; i can't really tell a difference), but the denim is still of superior quality, and the price is much lower than 700. I got my distressed black jeans there for $380, the one-wash indigo is as mentioned $333...

baizilla, 45 RPM jeans are of top notch quality, MUCH better than the denim used in Dior Homme jeans...which cost more than your average 45 RPM anyway.

--- Original message by Fade to Black on Sep 24, 2005 02:06 PM

the jeans i tried on definitely said "r" on the tag... or "r by 45" or somehting like that.

also, the natural/ vegetable indigo fades different and looks different too.

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Guest Fade to Black

Guest Fade to Black

Posted
Posted
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

where can i try on regular 45rpms? not the r by 45rpm?

--- Original message by adsurgo on Sep 23, 2005 01:00 PM

Actually the "R by 45RPM" store in NYC carries the main 45 RPM jeans...i think that's just the name of the store. the 750-1000+ models are the aihiko, which come in not just distressed but also the one-wash raw denim (I hear that version of the raw denim is like 1000 Euros in Paris, so I'm sure the custom distressed is a lot more).

the 45 RPM models carried in the NYC store are the lesser priced Sorahiko model, which doesn't use the natural vegetable dye I assume (well I guess the main draw of the natural dye version is more of a mental/internal one that gives the wearer some sort of satisfaction; i can't really tell a difference), but the denim is still of superior quality, and the price is much lower than 700. I got my distressed black jeans there for $380, the one-wash indigo is as mentioned $333...

baizilla, 45 RPM jeans are of top notch quality, MUCH better than the denim used in Dior Homme jeans...which cost more than your average 45 RPM anyway.

--- Original message by Fade to Black on Sep 24, 2005 02:06 PM

the jeans i tried on definitely said "r" on the tag... or "r by 45" or somehting like that.

also, the natural/ vegetable indigo fades different and looks different too.

--- Original message by adsurgo on Sep 24, 2005 05:49 PM

ah, my mistake...i just checked my pair and it says the "R by..." too. Based on the info I gathered at the store I figured these were the main collection of 45 RPMs...i could be wrong perhaps.

Also it's interesting to learn the natural indigo dye fades different, I'd like to see how those end up a few years down the line.

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jdavis

jdavis

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what makes it fade green?

--- Original message by CactusArmy on Sep 24, 2005 07:06 PM

Natural indigo is difficult to harvest as it is insoluble in water. It first has to be mixed with an alkaline reducing agent to remove the oxygen from the dye vat, creating indigo white - which typically varies from yellowish to greenish in colour.

The green cast of most vegetable indigos originates either from mineral impurities or additives in the dye vat. Some species of natural indigo are now derived using enzymes as reducing agents and pure distilled water – these tend to be much darker, with less green. But also, since there’s over 800 species of indigofera alone, there’s tremendous variety.

You can see the green cast indigo in the earliest bucklebacks – those produced by the New Hampshire Amoskeag Mill. This particular indigo probably used sulphuric acid as a reducing agent – sulphur, being yellow always brings indigo closer to green. Cone 501xx were dyed with synthetic indigo, which dyes deeper and more consistently because of its purity.

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trinket

trinket

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It sounds complex to make indigo dye. I was wondering how the H'mong Minority People of Vietnam manage to dye their clothes with indigo? These people really live in villages, so I don't expect they're playing around with Sulphuric Acid.

Not wanting to hijack the thread - but I thought I'd post some info after searching google.

---------------------------------------------------

vietnam7.jpg

The H'mong people who originated from China about 3000 years ago. The H'mong are easily recognisable by their dark blue or black clothing, made using natural indigo dye from local plants.

http://www.thewonderingeye.co.uk/Scripts/ImagePage.asp?ImageID=593

The H'mong still make their own clothes independently. Even if they buy the yarn at a local market, they still typically weave and embroider the fabric themselves. Many H'mong, though, still cultivate and dye, using local indigo plants, the cotton and hemp from which they make their clothing.

...

Artisians paint white cloth with beeswax and dip this fabric into a deep blue dye, which is made from the crushed leaves and branches of go trees. As a last step, a mash made from ashes and a kind of root vegetable is added to the dye, to make the colour more durable. In fact, this stain is so reistant that local people refer to someone who has committed a crime and cannot conceal their guilt as having " a hand dipped in indigo".

03Sapa-Girls200x300.jpg

Many visitors arrive at the weekend to coincide with Sapa's main market. The local women and children flock into town to sell their produce and wares. Tourists snap up the cheap hand-embroidered clothing and textiles. They discover only at a later date that the indigo dye favored by the Black H'mong people is not set, their bodies exhibiting a deep shade of blue.

_trinket

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ringring

ringring

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"It sounds complex to make indigo dye. I was wondering how the H'mong Minority People of Vietnam manage to dye their clothes with indigo? These people really live in villages, so I don't expect they're playing around with Sulphuric Acid."

The process is basically described in the passage: "Artisians paint white cloth with beeswax and dip this fabric into a deep blue dye, which is made from the crushed leaves and branches of go trees. As a last step, a mash made from ashes and a kind of root vegetable is added to the dye, to make the colour more durable."

The crushing is preparation of the indigo plants for fermentation. Fermentation basically brings out the indigo from the plant. The second stage that is described as a mash of ashes & root vegetables is part of the traditional dyeing process to make the indigo soluble. Traditionally indigo is dissolved in a mix of wood ash, tannic acid, and/or urine.

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jdavis

jdavis

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The H’mong people of Vietnam I doubt would use sulphuric acid either. More likely that they would use whatever was available. Indigo dying is a very ancient process, the samurai would dye their hakama with indigo, the britons would derive indigo from woad and paint their faces and bodies with it. Supposedly even Tyrian purple – the coveted ancient dye – was a species of indigo. All of these people used what was available in their dye vat, stale urine, rotting meat, honey, pretty much any fruit juice that was around, minerals, and all of it was highly ritualized. Some of these additives – like natural bacteria from meat or the ammonia from urine would bring the dye vat to an ideal pH for the indigo. Some other additives can stengthen the indigo, like Kaki-Shibu, the fermented tannin juice from unripe persimmon - this strengthens, waterproofs and is also an antibacterial of sorts...

The urine used wouldn’t affect durability, but rather it would be used to bring indigo into solution. Also as per this passage, whatever part of the garment is dipped in beeswax would remain undyed.

Modern dying with synthetic indigo is far more consistent – although still far from perfect - but in some cases, much safer.

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