Bernhard Willhelm mens F/W 08.09 lookbook

[Guest binaural]

definitely a letdown compared to past collections... however, i find it tough to make any sense of it b/c of the models being so muscular. i find it a little distracting.

[Charlie Delta]

Serious question here; What makes Wilhelm a fashion designer?

This could be an interesting discussion.

What doesn't?

[minya]

which would you rather wear -- Wilhelm FW08 or Thom Browne FW08? What if you had to wear both, at the same time?

[doctorworm]

This could be an interesting discussion.

What doesn't?

yeah i found it really suprising that our fashion mod cant at least appreciate what he does you dont have to like it. everyone should watch this:

by far one of my favorite shows ever. such interesting and artistic presentation. and the music! everything about it is so well constructed. i don't see how someone can deny his merits after watching that and that was considered an in between season! (ie not the same attention as given to most seasons) he obviously makes an effort to come out with very different somewhat ridiculous stuff. sometimes it falls short and becomes somewhat unwearable or just looks odd, i'll admit that, but i don't think anyone can deny that his work is extremely innovative, or at the very least interesting. the whole concept of his style is to challenge the typical view of what fashion is, so it makes sense that some people would not consider him a true fashion designer. i've been reading up on him a lot lately and the more i know the more i like his stuff.

end long post that very few will actually read.

ps who went to the seven loves bernhard party? wish i could have gone

[polishmike]

ps who went to the seven loves bernhard party? wish i could have gone

It was everything you could imagine and much more...

[doctorworm]

It was everything you could imagine and much more...

...

you and omc went right? lucky bastards

[broneck]

yeah i found it really suprising that our fashion mod cant at least appreciate what he does

i'd be curious to hear a breakdown of what makes him a fashion designer as opposed to (in all seriousness), someone who is just a costume-maker, for either broadway or cinema or whathaveyou . . . to be completely honest, when i saw this, my first reaction was "huh, they've got b-dubya doing cirque du soliel now". . .

i read your post, and appreciated it, but that's where my mind goes.

[doctorworm]

i'd be curious to hear a breakdown of what makes him a fashion designer as opposed to (in all seriousness), someone who is just a costume-maker, for either broadway or cinema or whathaveyou . . . to be completely honest, when i saw this, my first reaction was "huh, they've got b-dubya doing cirque du soliel now". . .

i read your post, and appreciated it, but that's where my mind goes.

i think the issue with this theory is that you are judging it based off of the runway shows/ line sheet photos. look at runway outfits from other designers, they too approach costume status. few people actually wear the clothing like that. you have to think of how the pieces can be integrated into a normal wardrobe. all runway looks have a bit of a costume aspect to them. personally i wouldn't even compare it to a costume in the first place. i think most of the looks (besides the ballerina-esque long johns) are perfectly wearable.

i mean, look at this cirque de soleil costume http://www.qguide.com/content/cms_event/photo/imageW0.cirque-du-soleil.20070910_100927890729.jpg i think we can both see the difference

[multicolor]

"i never define fashion"

http://www.fashionfile.com/designers/BernhardWillhelm.html

[broneck]

while i'd agree that almost all have an element of theatrics and approach being unwearable, generally (hopefully) there is a unifying theme giving license to these theatrics, and there are certainly pieces of what could be worn by normal human beings in any given social setting...there's not much of that here, and what seems like you could work it into a real-life wardrobe is really quite boring (striped hoodie, gold top...even the socks, while definitely interesting, don't look wearable. they look like they're in place to be styled, not worn)...

and while the cirque du soliel pic definitely made me lulz, there's no denying that certain costumes would not look altogether out of place in this collection

[mellowbonsai]

i think on one end you have someone like thom browne who is taking pieces we are all familiar with and turning them inside out and around and cropping out this and extending that; working with clothes from the inside pushing out, so to speak

and on the other you have willhelm, who is working from the outside, pushing his way in. the clothes he makes are foreign and costume-looking because he is not working to make things that can be said to be a pair of pants or simply shirt

the geometry and volume of his designs suggests a way of approaching the human body with an eye tracing more subtle anatomical patterns and curves

and yes, this includes cocks

get over yourselves

[mellowbonsai]

i know its hard to keep a straight face discussing such a frute swags collection, but heres an example, look carefully at where these socks change colors as well as what colors they are:

he's breaking up muscle groups in the leg and creating portions in argument with notions of ankle/calf/knee/thigh, though still being aesthetically balanced with primary colors

[broneck]

he is also waving pom poms and has his wiener neatly tucked into that little do-hickey. and I'm sure that sounds childish (it is, really), but is he putting all of this effort into following the male form in a way that's never really been exlpored before in fashion, fully conscious that the blatant problem faced is that the collection isn't a study of masculinity, but rather a study in homoerotic fantasy?

edit: not that this should really be a problem, but it's certainly marginalizing to straight guys to consider an entire collection gay, especially when fashion for men already has such a stigma attached.

[Charlie Delta]

Are you guys seriously discussing this while only looking at his men's collections?

Have a look at his older work and especially his earlier womens collections and then tell me that there is any doubt with him being a designer.

Since he started he has constitantly tried to break/bend almost every rule that applies to fashion.

He has also stated several times that his men's collections are mainly him having fun.

And if you want further proof, have a look at the collections he did for Capucci.

[Advantage]

Well that's a change. No actual dick flesh hanging out this time.

Yeah I dont' get it as well. I've seen his previous stuff and I suppose he's exploring and generally just being creative. This is what he wants to express. It may just be too difficult for me what bernhard is doing nowadays. But I'll always keep an eye out for his work

[Charlie Delta]

This has been said before, but something being good is not the same as "would I wear it?"...

[doctorworm]

Are you guys seriously discussing this while only looking at his men's collections?

Have a look at his older work and especially his earlier womens collections and then tell me that there is any doubt with him being a designer.

Since he started he has constitantly tried to break/bend almost every rule that applies to fashion.

He has also stated several times that his men's collections are mainly him having fun.

And if you want further proof, have a look at the collections he did for Capucci.

oh no sufoo! common sense and legitimate knowledge! quick let's make some jokes about robokoppin lavin and homosexuality and maybe it will go away.

[jayrock]

while the designs are certainly somewhat abstract, I find it hard to easily dismiss the whole collection as "gay".

like someone else said, it's nice to see a designer start from scratch for an outfit, instead of simply redesigning slacks and a shirt

some of my favorites:

[josephr]

it's really amusing to see people who rock such boring "gothninja" styles, which are so fucking tired by now, dissing bernhard wilhelm. what do you haters have to say about walter van beirendonck

[Servo2000]

+1 to Beirendonck.

This collection is becoming more and more appealing. The outfits generally don't seem all that outlandish to me since I was a dancer for several years (no homo?) and would've killed to have had outfits like the ones jayrock picked out. I can't see wearing this so much anymore, but that's never stopped me from appreciating something before.

I really need to get back into the shape I used to be.

[Guest jmatsu]

it's really amusing to see people who rock such boring "gothninja" styles, which are so fucking tired by now, dissing bernhard wilhelm. what do you haters have to say about walter van beirendonck

think about who is hating on this collection and b.w. do they really understand design? do they understand your(and likewise member's) rationale about certain aspects of this designer in particular,or other facets of the fashion industry? i doubt they do. btw, they aren't even "gothninjas." you shouldn't even think twice about the "haters" in this thread. though their comments/hate may seem attractive to other sufu members of less experience, (when dolled up with their particular fancy vocab) they're actually of little worth. if this was a debate, certain members wouldn't even have been invited to speak.

i doubt they even heard of wvb or wl&t.

[Servo2000]

Speaking of Van Beirendonck, did his newest collection have a presentation? On his site it's just been the weird 3D models for a while.

[broneck]

it's really amusing to see people who rock such boring "gothninja" styles, which are so fucking tired by now, dissing bernhard wilhelm. what do you haters have to say about walter van beirendonck

for the record, i'm not dissing him, nor am i using "gay" or "homoerotic" in the perjorative sense...I'll freely admit that I know nothing about walter van beirendonck, but I took the briefest look at some of his collections. I don't love it, and not because it's unwearable, or gay, or even silly (although I think shots at mcdonalds and globalization are a little hamfisted)...I just don't, and I think that's allowed here. I've certainly seen unwearable collections before and still enjoyed them, and realistically about 90% of the stuff I see on runways are "stuff i wouldn't buy", but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. I think there's room for absurdists in fashion, but it's interesting to see where the line is drawn between art and design.

edit : servo, I saw that, pretty sure you need press clearance for the presentation, the 3D avatars are all I could find.

[Servo2000]

I just remembered that we actually had a thread for the SS08 beirendonck.

There was a fairly decent discussion of costume vs. fashion there as well.

[broneck]

fashion is probably not the right word, maybe clothing vs. costumes. the difference being that a large part of fashion collections have atleast some elements of traditional clothing, meaning something people wear normally. where as this collection is, as you said, more like a fantasy world. I couldn't see anyone wearing anything from this collection unless they were in a parade.

I'm not saying that this couldn't be interesting nor likeable, just thats its a very different deal from regular runway collections that most designers put out, this is more like an art show.

what's really the difference?

at a certain point in time, what we consider a costume might have been de rigeur

style for a certain time + place.

i see this as no different than couture shows, except that beirendonck is creating

not only a style of dress but an entire fantasy world, and populating it with glorious

dick helmets.

i, for one, cannot wait for a future where i can wear a dick helmet and have eyeballs

on my feet.

both very excellent points

[Guest]

as far as beirendonck goes im not really worried about his shit being wearable ..

.. as he would get laughed off sufu, art? design? wearability? does it really matter?

[triumphoftiredeyes]

First of I really like the colors that he used. Secondly, I love these looks;

The socks and legging treatments I love as well.

[multicolor]

since this has been bumped

this is the video that goes w/ the collection

http://www.showstudio.com/projects/menintights/film/

its rlly long and more like something u would see in an art gallery

but there is a part (towards to end of the film) showing black and white checkered clothing

hopefully they produce that, i like that print

[btbam]

hrm. a couple nice shirts/cardigans but everything else is just not cricket.

[Guest alzh]

older and gayer. hot guys anyway.