What exactly is the 'Eternal Recipe'?

[Biggow]

It's obviously been mentioned on here many times before, and it seems to involve washing your jeans roughly once a month with some kind of 'special denim detergent', but having looked through the archives I couldn't find out all the details of exactly how the look of these.....

http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/eternal_811-6.html

..... was achieved.

Therefore, can the denim experts out there, or maybe the Japanese speakers, give the full and definitive details of 'The Eternal Recipe'? I really want to know because I'm going to try it with my Warehouse 1001xx's.

Thanks!

[ringring]

I don't speak Japanese, but seem to recall they had been washed about 8 times in one year. Washed once a month at the beginning and then the time between washes was stretched out as the year wore on.

More details would be interesting.

[Biggow]

Absolutely! It would be great to know exactly how often he washed and how he actually washed them i.e. were they hand or machine washed, what type of detergent (if any), what water temperature, was there anything else added to the mix (salt, vinegar etc.)

Come on all you Japanese speakers out there, tell us exactly what he's written on that page.

[djrajio]

Translated this fast and didn't do word for word. Basically he just wore his jeans and washed using regular detergent. Nothing special and nothing mentioned about water heat, time, etc. Just wear your jeans bra.

Sixth time / Sixth report

Approximate (total) wear time: 1 year

Number of washes: 8

Finally IÂfve worn these jeans passed one year! Although I wore these jeans approximately everyday, the remaining color is probably around 60~70%. Between taking this picture from my previous time report, theyÂfve been washed once. Washing is always done using ÂgAkronÂh detergentÂfs usual instructions. Although I personally like the state they are in at this present time, once approximately 50% of the color has been removed, they will be perfect.

This time, IÂfve shown the front picture very large. This picture represents the closest representation of the true color of the jeans. Because the diameter is slender, the lower whiskers have not increased, but I feel that the upper whiskers have an easier to define shape/form. If the size were true fit/tight, I feel that I could create really distinct whiskering. These are various pictures of the upper parts of the jean.

This last picture is the usual wearing picture. Compared to the previous report picture, there hasnÂft been any extensive change, lol. However, by looking at the picture, it seems there has been a change to the actual condition. This is the limitation of a digital camera.

At this time, I want to temporarily end reporting this jean. From here on after, I plan on wearing in parallel a new pair of jeans, proportionally wearing these jeans 1/9th of the time. From here-on-after I want to report on results I can actually see.

Lastly, I have some impressions of these one year worn jeans. Although from the beginning, I understood the reliability of this particular jeans wearing, the manner in which the wearing appeared has been the best part. The other worthy mention is probably its robustness. Despite the fact that I wore these jeans approximately everyday for one year, with the exception of the back pocket and coin pocket, there isnÂft any noticeable damage. Although if you looked at the pictures I feel you could comprehend, the embroidery and edges also perfectly came out. (DidnÂft know how to translate thisÂc). Thus, in one phrase my impression of this one year worn jean is Âga jean that others could recommendÂh.

[Biggow]

WOW! That's fantastic work djrajio - thanks very much.

So it seems he's not giving a great deal away, I guess he doesn't really there's these sad people half way around the world admiring his jeans so much!

So is the devil in the details or is it just that Eternal jeans age so much better than the ones were used too?

djrajio - Can you tell if he has given an email address anywhere on that site? If so, perhaps you or one of the other Japanese speakers out there could contact him and find out more specific details.

[wild_whiskey]

I had my friend translate this page awhile ago for me and I was kind of disappointed to hear that there wasn't any really special information in it. In any case I am going to try using some vegetable detergent on my next jeans (I will probably wear and wash them the same as my Regular Ralfs though). I am not going to say which jeans they are until they are worn in and look good.

[Biggow]

The only way we're going to find out for sure is if someone can contact the guy that created those original 811's, and I don't even know if that's possible.

It would at least be useful to find out the temperature he washed them at and which detergent he used.

[wild_whiskey]

Quote:

The only way we're going to find out for sure is if someone can contact the guy that created those original 811's, and I don't even know if that's possible.

It would at least be useful to find out the temperature he washed them at and which detergent he used.

--- Original message by Biggow on Sep 8, 2005 01:13 PM

I think that's going overboard. He just wore them like anyone should wear a pair of jeans. They have been in the rain and been in the sun... The reason the jeans look like that is because of the cotton thread being varied, the number of indigo dips, the color of the indigo, etc. Not because of a special washing method. The real "Eternal" recipe is to buy Eternal jeans. All Eternal 811s and 846s will have a similar color to those. Really excellent jeans.

[djrajio]

I would have to agree. I don't there is any "secret formula" or method. He just wore some really well made jeans everyday for one year and washed them frequently. As I said before, he used Akron detergent, which is made by Lion, a pretty commonplace household product company in Japan. http://www.lion.co.jp/en/products/html/pro_c004.htm If you are really nutty, I suppose you could go out and buy this detergent. Also note that on the site, he has an entire page on the science of detergents and washing and how it affects jean fading/wear, very specific on the chemical engineering end/chemical formula end. http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/iroochi-7.html

[showbiz00ditc]

can someone post his pics please? i cant seem to open the link.

[Biggow]

So all the talk of using non-detergent soap powder, adding salt and vinegar to the wash (Studio D'Artisan), washing at 40 degrees as opposed to 60 degrees (Nudie) is all nonsense and makes no difference?

The truth is that I don't know the answer, and part of me hopes your right Wild_Whiskey, and that my Warehouse jeans will be similar to the Eternals.

[wild_whiskey]

Quote: So all the talk of using non-detergent soap powder, adding salt and vinegar to the wash (Studio D'Artisan), washing at 40 degrees as opposed to 60 degrees (Nudie) is all nonsense and makes no difference?

The truth is that I don't know the answer, and part of me hopes your right Wild_Whiskey, and that my Warehouse jeans will be similar to the Eternals.

Your warehouses are going to look great, but don't get your hopes up as for the color. If there is any one variation that I've seen in every single pair of dry jeans, it's that different companies use different hues and shades of indigo.

[djrajio]

Ok did a translation of the detergent page. http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/iroochi-7.html

See below:

Now I'd like to talk about detergents. Nowadays, there so many detergents that one can't even count them all. For jeans, I would have to say that what type of detergent you choose is important. The main type of detergent is weak alkaline synthetic detergents. All companies, through a combination of fluorescent bleaching agents, bleaching agents, and enzymes, place an emphasis on the removal of dirt. The graph below represents the ingredient compositions of three varieties of home laundry detergent.

(Note here the author intentionally omits the letters of the companies' name and product names)

Maker: Lion

Product Name: Top

pH: Weak alkaline

Ingredients: surfactant/surface acting agent (31%), liquid softener, alkaline chemicals, enzyme stabilization agent, enzymes, fluorescent bleaching agent

Maker: Kao

Product Name: Attack

pH: Weak alkaline

Ingredients: surfactant/surface acting agent(25%), liquid softener, alkaline chemicals, processing agent, dispersing agent, fluorescent bleaching agent, enzymes

Maker: Lion

Product Name: Newbeads

pH: Weak alkaline

Ingredients: surfactant/surface acting agent (23%), alkaline chemicals, liquid softener, processing agent, dispersing agent, bleaching agent, enzymes

While there are few things to be concerned about concerning alkaline, amongst the ingredients listed in the graph, the doubt of weather "is it safe for my jeans?" probably resides in fluorescent bleaching agents, bleaching agents, and enzymes.

Firstly, fluorescent bleaching agents, through a variety of dyes, are substances that release/discharge the visible blue light (fluorescence) that absorbs the ultra-violet rays of the sun. Blue light erases the yellow in white and increases the white we see with our eyes. Fluorescent bleaching agents are different than bleaching agents in that they do not make dirt colorless but remove the yellow in white. Because of the existence of this property, whenever you wash clothing, while white clothing becomes whiter, light color clothing's natural color turns to a different color and the resulting clothing becomes whiter as well. Have you ever been to a live house, club, etc., or a place that uses a black light and seen your white t-shirt glitter/shine in a light blue? This is fluorescent bleaching agents at work. In short, whenever you wash your jeans with fluorescent mixed detergents, you are essentially dyeing your jeans to shine white.

Next, are bleaching agents, which are divided into two forms: oxidized form (oxygen and chlorine) and reduced form. In oxidized form, the bleach separates the stain from the fabric by removing the oxygen molecules in the stain, removing the stain from the fabric. Conversely, for stains that have been oxidized, reduced form bleaches supplement the fiber with oxygen molecules to detach the stain from the fiber. However, eventually, the inability of removing stains causes the indigo to ultimately peel off. Thus, by using detergents with bleaching agents, whenever you wash, you are somewhat forcing the removal of the indigo.

Finally, for enzymes, all three commodities have entirely as much as possible inside them. Enzymes are used inside the bodies of living creatures and are a main ingredient of protein. Enzymes speed up chemical (catalytic actions) reaction and the material that one enzyme appeals to has that feature for only that enzyme. Enzymes used in detergents are usually manufactured by taking out microbes like Bacillus subtilis from cultures. Within a washing detergent, several varieties of enzymes are included: the protease enzyme that disassembles proteins, the lipase enzyme that disassembles fats and oils, and the amylase enzyme that disassembles starches, cellulase enzyme that disassembles cellulose. However, if the optimum temperature of 40~60 degrees, pH of 6-9, and reactive t

[sway]

Awesome, thanks a bunch for the translation, djrajio! I've tried translating that website before with Altavista Babelfish, but the translated text never really made much sense.

So, what US detergents would be considered "mild"? Does Woolite Black fit into that category?

[wild_whiskey]

Amazing translation. Well done.

[Geowu]

Quote: can someone post his pics please? i cant seem to open the link.

[showbiz00ditc]

ohhhhh...ahhhhhh

thanks!

[darknworn]

dare i say, that pair of eternal is the holy grail of denimheads. i get a semi woody everytime i see it. am i alone here?

btw, excellent translation. thanks for the effort.

"God is Dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" - God

Edited by darknworn on Sep 8, 2005 at 06:18 PM

[PG2G]

Thanks for the translation

On another note, anyone know where I can find a belt like that one?

[minya]

Lucky Brand sells belts that are, quite literally almost exactly like that one.

[djrajio]

Three letters: HTC. Santa Monica store. Hit 'em up. 300+ bones though...

[minya]

I'm going to hand-make a belt like that.

BTW, my Red Moon imitation wallet is turning out beautifully -- I rubbed lots of neatsfoot oil into it to turn it a dark brown and the edges are getting bluish from the indigo of my Nudies, haha.

[PG2G]

I'll check out Lucky Brand and HTC. I've been meaning to head down there, just haven't made the time (or money) to make the trip yet.

[Biggow]

So it seems that the type of detergent used does have a big impact on the look of the jeans, which I suspect is partly why those eternals still seem to be so dark. Of course we still don't know what temperature the jeans were washed at.

With regards to the belt seen in those images, I'm pretty sure it's also Red Moon....

http://www.redmoon.co.jp/brand/redmoon/belt/index.html

He's just changed the buckle.

[wild_whiskey]

I found Lion Acron. They have it at Mitsuwa in the "best appliances" section. $5.50. It's in a pink bottle.

[Biggow]

Quote:

I found Lion Acron. They have it at Mitsuwa in the "best appliances" section. $5.50. It's in a pink bottle.

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Sep 9, 2005 07:32 PM

So are you going to get some wild_whiskey?

[ringring]

"So, what US detergents would be considered "mild"? Does Woolite Black fit into that category? "

Most handwash detergents would be considered 'mild' particularly ones designed for sensitive skin/babies.

Basically for a mild detergent you want to look for a simple soap, like a pure vegetable (aka castille) soap. Something that doesn't have added whiteners (phosphates & bleaches) and enzymes (non biological), but that is capable enough of shifting grease/oil. That's basically what some specialist denim detergents are - simple soaps.

A simple vegetable soap like Dr Bronner's would fit into that catagory. In many stores you can also buy boxes of pure soap flakes.

Sometimes you can appear to 'restore' some darkness into your jeans if you have been using regular detergents by washing them with a simple soap. You're not actually adding back any colour, but just washing out the brightening agents - ie. the phosphates or the 'fluorescent bleaching agents' mentioned in that (excellent!) translation above.

For denimzealots out there who are looking for a specialist Japanese denim detergent try J-Washer or Full Count's Denim Detergent :

J-washer: http://www.rakuten.co.jp/joenet/513819/

Full Count : http://www.rakuten.co.jp/bears/607816/575348/

Edited by ringring on Sep 10, 2005 at 02:18 AM

[takashi]

This is the stuff that came with my Samurais..

[ringring]

Nice touch. Presumably that's just simple soap then? (no magic ingredients)

[TragicBliss]

Whoa... Samurais include that? That's pretty rad.

http://www.tragicbliss.com