authenticity and dad

[scoon0224]

I quite liked miz's blog when asked his mother about wabi-sabi. Where she mentions how it spurs an 'intense longing' really was what caught me.

I'm putting this in superdenim... cuz I think it meshes best with jeans, and their umistakably sentimental feel.

Maybe it's part of our generation, plus parts of my specific background. I'm sure others have thought/felt the same, and even written a lot more (and a lot better) on the subject.

I like the work-wear type aesthetic that many here have.

And I think it's cuz I like being like dad (to a degree... he does have some god-awful shit)

Dad is authentic. He's not styled. He wears what he likes, and often the thought of 'liking' it probably doesn't even enter his head.

As a kid, we all idolize him, right? For me it was the jackets. If you asked me to draw a picture, it'd be:

a classic side part

shitty Nike Crosstrainers

faded out jeans (almost certainly cheap pre-washed Levi's)

some random shirt... probably a plaid flannel, with a threadbare baseball shirt underneath.

a heavy, beat to hell, green (I mean GREEN) leather jacket.

Everything fits him pretty well. Cuz that's how you're suppose to wear things. The idea of colours 'clashing' is the only possible consideration, and might have him throw on his equally battered black jacket to be kinder on the eyes.

The funny part is... if I posted a fit pic of him (but maybe instead of the Nikes throw on some well-worn sort of classic workboots) some folks would probably flip their shit.

Add selvage and a cuff and it'd be all "OMGodzors!"

I know I'm being silly. We all are a little, pursuing authenticity through wearing in denim ourselves... as in some way pursuing authenticity makes it unattainable.

But hand-me-downs are undeniably authentic, and Dad's beat up green jacket is as authentic as it gets.

Back to our generation. Sometimes I feel like I have no roots, like I'm more disconnected from my parents than they are from theirs. I know every generation gets that, but I also feel that the disconnect is a lot larger for us, with the world changing more rapidly.

Basically, I want the jackets because they're dad's. They're HIM, they're my past and where I came from.

I can never get into leather jackets. The only leather jackets I ever (EVER) like, are beat up ones. Dad says "so wear it" but he doesn't understand, I want HIS leather jacket. I want the years of use and abuse, the associated experiences and good times.

So instead I leapfrog back. I don't want to buy worn out things, because it rings false with me. I want some simple, made to last shit. I want some jeans, a jacket, that I can wear with almost everything, that'll last me twenty years.

For now they're new, like when he was 25, and in some unusual way that makes me feel more connected to who he is and where he's from (when he was my age, and was excited about his new jacket and thought it was the shit), and by extension where I'm from as well.

It's still too expensive. It's manufactured and mimickry in a way, and will remain that way until I forget about clothing and move on to just buying replacements for what I've owned before... but it's mine and makes me feel good.

I still want that damned green jacket. And he still won't cought it up.

[watchman]

mushrooms can really make you think, huh? yay for dad!

[superBobo]

Somewhat allover the place, but I think I get what you mean.

..and I want my dads worn out levis! I gave him a bunch of shirts the other day, so I would be fair if he gave me his worn-for-10years Levis..

[flex0r]

My dad has some awesomely worn cheap Lees from about ten years ago also, which I would've taken long ago if not for the fact that they are two sizes too big(he likes his jeans kind of baggy). I did take his leather G1 though, and for a long time I wore his OG Wayfarers that he bought when they first came out.

[Handlethevibe]

My dad dresses better than your dad.

[denimdragon]

...good stuff.

[Brienneoftarth]

I think your'e confusing "qaulity" with "authenticity" There is absolutely nothing authentic about alot of the workwear inspired posters on this forum. If one were to be authentic in their style in this day and age, they would wear pre-distressed jeans and such. I can relate to the desire to purchase something that will last me for 20 years and be a bit of an heirloom but the whole authenticity concept really makes no sense. I am also extremely sure that the vast majority of the posters on this place will completely give up on the looks supported by this board within a few months/years, this is not a good or bad thing but is almost a certainty. Authenticity is a very tricky concept to pin down and most of your comments make little sense because you're assuming there is a set definition for authenticty in clothing.

[7887]

Although we can't truly achieve that authenticity of a bygone era, but the thought on doing so really entertains me and works like a gravitational force that pulls me into good quality denim, repro or not.

The question of authenticity gets kind of philosophical though. While "dad's authenticity", the result of good hard work his dad put into a good quality jacket in the obvious sense would not equal to "my authenticity" because the definition might have fundamentally changed, but there is the probability that, if only by pure coincidence, the two can match, even if the dude doesn't know it. The dad probably achieved this "authenticity" that the son look up to so much without even knowing it anyways.

A little anachronism in my mind can sometimes brighten up my day, so I would dream, and dream, until it becomes second nature and I would dream no more. Just some random rant.

[Pandemonium]

can i get a father-complex too?

[mizanation]

i think there was a free & easy issue on "dad style". actually, i think we had a thread on dad style a while ago...

[Pandemonium]

i do think that chuck's vintage very much looks like authentic 'dad' style.

replicating the truth, yo.

[superBobo]

i think there was a free & easy issue on "dad style". actually, i think we had a thread on dad style a while ago...

are there any Free & easy scans available on the net? id love to see something like the dad -style issue...

[Cali]

What is great about this is that you will eventually inherit some sweet stuff you might not have know about. Case in point; my grandfather sent me a care package a while back with some old western stuff including a hand made deerskin vest he used to wear riding.

He was so worried I wouldn't want it because it was "all beat up".

"No Grandpa, its perfect. Thank you"

Oh, and all of my Dad's military stuff including flight jackets. Awesome.

[Brienneoftarth]

i do think that chuck's vintage very much looks like authentic 'dad' style.

replicating the truth, yo.

maybe grand dad or great grand dad style. Everytime they post scans of their stuff they look like a bunch of la hipsters dressing up like okies and flying aces. I'm hypercritical of that look cus I think its the farthest thing from authentic, especially cus it costs so damn much. If those guys were in their teens and found that stuff in thrift stores on their own it would be pretty cool but I dont see anything authentic about a fairly well to do (im making assumptions but i've seen Bill with a vintage rolex on so he cant be poor) twenty somethings dressing up like impoverished sharecroppers during the great depression.

[superBobo]

^^ I get what youre saying, but does this mean that no one should wear repro jeans, shirts at all? or is there a certain line which shouldnt be crossed? or is it about not trying to come across as authentic?

Personally I really enjoy the look, but am not interested to be in period clothes from head to toe.. .I am inspired by it though.

[Charlie Delta]

This discussion is a bit turning away from the original topic but in an interesting direction nonetheless.

I'm taking the liberty to assume that the way I dress is also what Downwithianbrown is talking about.

I get what you are saying and I have to say that eventhough it might not come over (I don't know honestly) in general I give this alot of thought.

Clothing and especially a lot of vintage (-inspired) stuff has certain associations to it. This is something that is hard to get around.

And yes I am very much inspired by those exact depression era impoverished sharecroppers (among too many other things) that you mention in your post.

And maybe I am "faking" authenticity by not only dressing like that but also taking my waywt pictures in locations that fit this image (at least for me), but I don't see it like that. I try to portray a certain atmosphere and go quite far in that.

I have thougth about this alot but decided that I didn't want it to hold me back to slowly make this way of dressing my own.

hmmpff, I'm having trouble trying to put me thougths on this down clearly...

But I'd really like to go deeper into this.

[Charlie Delta]

Ok, I'll just try writing down my thoughts.

I can definitely see that someone would have a problem with me looking at a FSA picture and saying how cool the people in the pic look, eventhough they were actually struggling for their lives the moment the pic was taken.

It comes over as very ignorant and in a way exploitive to only look at the clothing and even mimic that style. A "take what you need and discard the rest" mentality.

[>++fishb0neR]

Ok, I'll just try writing down my thoughts.

I can definitely see that someone would have a problem with me looking at a FSA picture and saying how cool the people in the pic look, eventhough they were actually struggling for their lives the moment the pic was taken.

It comes over as very ignorant and in a way exploitive to only look at the clothing and even mimic that style. A "take what you need and discard the rest" mentality.

I totally agree, but that attitude permeates so many aspects of modern culture and society

[superBobo]

Ok, I'll just try writing down my thoughts.

I can definitely see that someone would have a problem with me looking at a FSA picture and saying how cool the people in the pic look, eventhough they were actually struggling for their lives the moment the pic was taken.

It comes over as very ignorant and in a way exploitive to only look at the clothing and even mimic that style. A "take what you need and discard the rest" mentality.

But is this what you do? or how do you go about it? Also, what inspires you to dress in a depression era look? Obviously, im not condemming it, just interested in whats your viewpoint.

[erbs]

I love philosophical discussions on SuFu.

I think that the contemplation of authenticity is self-negating: If you have to think about whether or not you are authentic, you aren't. The authenticity of vintage workwear comes from the fact that it was born of necessity and was thus utterly non-premeditated. If your jeans ripped, you patched them and kept wearing them, etc.

The original authenticity came from wearing what one needed for the life that one lived, which I do not think is possible as long as the process is self-conscious.

Wow that was random.

[Charlie Delta]

I wasn't actually finished yet with what I wanted to say but posted that as I had to eat something.

(disclaimer: I can only talk about my own view on this and realise that I'm maybe pulling this towards myself too much. Maybe I'm taking this completely out of context, but want to make clear that I don't in any way feel attacked or anything but I am genuinly interested to go deeper into this, and to hear opinions that go beyond "nice fit" etc. to get a discussion going of some sort. This is something that I often think we could use more on here)

I've been very deep into clothing and fashion since quite a while now. And have given this kind of things alot of thought. For example, I've had a great problem with wearing military surplus for a while, simply because of it's connonations.

Throughout the years and alot of dillema's later I came to the conclusion that atleast for the moment I am firstly interested in the aesthetical and functional aspects of clothing and less in the social aspect.

What I find interesting about this depression era aesthetic is that it is born out of pure neccesity, people were poor, didn't posses alot of clothing and pieces were patched/repaired and not discarded until completely neccesary and no younger family member would fit in them.

People had alot more important things on their mind than "looking the part" and their clothing reflected this.

These items where firstly made to be functional and how they looked came second, and this is where for me their beauty lies. I like to look for beauty in things that were not intended to look beautifull. (And obviously a lot of people on here do, look at superdenim, the boots and the leathergoods threads etc.)

Looking at FSA pictures, I will indeed look at the clothing worn in those pictures and maybe say or think "how cool they looked".

However I'm not ignoring the fact that those photographs are actually documenting a very harsh and difficult time in the history of the USA and the world. But there is nothing I can do about that now, I could "respect" their harships and leave their workwear to them, but I just decided that I've passed up on enough things in the past because I felt it was disrespectfull of me to look at it purely from a fashion angle, and that now I want to enjoy it and have fun with it. Wich in the end is why I am doing it.

Almost every piece of clothing (as in design) has some sort of connonation to it, or history behind it. New things evolve by playing with this, taking things out of their context and experimenting.

Me dressing in this depression era workwear aesthetic, is because I genuinly find it a nice look. I don't think I ever pretended it to be authentic, (I'm not even American for one) but this doesn't mean I can't have fun dressing like this.

And I might go far with the pictures I take, but this is because I'm trying to approach a certain type of atmosphere as close as possible.

It is in the end a "look", a less regular and popular look, but a look nonetheless.

And it's dressing up, but isn't all getting dressed for a further purpose than just having your naked body covered/protected, dressing up?

meh

all over the place I think...

[Brienneoftarth]

Ok, I'll just try writing down my thoughts.

I can definitely see that someone would have a problem with me looking at a FSA picture and saying how cool the people in the pic look, eventhough they were actually struggling for their lives the moment the pic was taken.

It comes over as very ignorant and in a way exploitive to only look at the clothing and even mimic that style. A "take what you need and discard the rest" mentality.

cotton duck and bobo...I honestly didn't intend to have my comments directed at you two. I think that the style you two have adopted is especially unique and works because A) you do not come from the states so you're very removed from any of the contexts of the clothing and therefore can approach it in a less contrived way. I liken your styles to some of the looks I see in japanese pics. I think you two do it very tastefully and keep it looking less costumey. I think you pull off your looks without looking as if you're impersonating a character from another time. I can;t say the same for others.

[superBobo]

downwithian, I didnt feel offended, but Im glad to hear get that impression of my style.

Regarding the topic, I have to agree with the validity of Cottons view. It should be possible to approach it from a "purely" fashion/style point of view. All clothes have connotations, and really, what is the problem of being into 20s workwear as other are into punk, rockabilly or 60s mod styles?

[Charlie Delta]

As Bobo, I did not feel in anyway offended.

I do find it interesting to think about clothing in it's original context and such things, and more discussion of this type would be welcome on here as far as I'm concerned.

[Brienneoftarth]

I can definitely see where you are coming from. The opinions I stated are definitely on the cynical side and can come off really negative. I suppose it's just my personal opinion that some people doing the early to mid 1900's american vintage look come off as more contrived as others, especially when you can see how quickly and easily they transitioned into a look so different and anachronistic from their old ones. I personally obsess over maintaining some level of personal authenticity with my wardrobe which includes obtaining garments based on a number of criteria. It's been a long road of purchases/sales/throwaways and i'm nowhere near done. Now I need to sell my buzz rickson b-15c in order to purchase a new arcteryx LEAF goretex jacket because i've convinced myself it's a more honest (and cheaper) representation of the best military clothing has to offer in this day and age. I figure, if you can buy a current classic in your own time, why buy one from some one elses? it never ends......

[__3xL]

I still wonder if my dad is my authentic father or not ..

it's cool he raised me with a lotta love for the most part .. til he ran out on us to chase whores and such ....

you don't look like him do you ?

[tweeds]

this deserves to keep running for a bit...

i think "authenticity" is a bit of an iffy thing--how do you know you're not also being authentic to yourself by wearing jeans and flannels like they used to? we have the benefit of hindsight which allows us to assign certain identities to specific periods in history, but we cannot possibly discount our own tendencies to dress in certain ways, surely? our era is one of incredible inheritance of the various influences of the past and tying up its various strands into a cohesive twine...so why not the same with personal style, is what i'm saying...

[old viking ring]

I believe that if you are wearing workwear and are doing a "workwear" job that requires it, you should have no problem with authenticity. I personally work in an office and wear a crappy polo with my "workwear" jeans and 1905's, but once I get home, the polo comes off, a t-shirt goes on and I finish tiling the kitchen, or drywalling the laundry room, install the wood flooring, work on my car, etc.

The only thing different about the clothing I wear at the office and the clothing I wear in the other 75% of my life is the shirt. If I had a choice, I would do the other things to make a living, but, unfortunately it does not pay enough.

So here is some food for thought: if the sharecroppers had a better job, would they still wear "workwear"?

I would and I do, for the simple fact that it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something in my life when I leave the office.

[old viking ring]

Also, for the guy that brought up the Rolex, they were not necessarily considered to be a watch for the affluent. In fact the one I wear, a GMT master II is a work watch and I never take it off, not in the shower or to sleep or when demoing a kitchen. I shows my life upon it just like it was intended to, just like a pair of jeans or boots.

[grilled cheese]

If the thought of authenticity even crosses your mind, you're forcing it. We live in a post-modern society with a tremendous amount of access to different ideas, styles, cultures, etc. Naturally, we should be influenced by this access and these many influences. To me, being authentic is switching it up almost every day and fiiting in with that day's context. Day to day I could be wearing Borrelli and Incotex trousers, the next day baggy Evisus and Adidas Forums and maybe a Brooks Brothers sweater, the next day Samurais and a "workwear" shirt. And that's real--that's my reality. That's the post-modern world where we draw influence from anywhere and everywhere, sampling it and rearranging it to fit the current moment. That's how I play it.

For those of you concerned with integrity and authenticity, Superfuture is a perfect example of this post-modern influence... You access this world of ideas about denim, even if you are an "authentic" day laborer. 15 years ago, if you were a day laborer you'd buy your jeans at K-Mart, wash them on the reg, and not care about selvedge or fades or honeycombs--and you definitely wouldn't "talk" about these things with skinny asian dudes on the internet. Because time has moved on, because the world has changed, the very definition of authentic has also changed.