.mike vick.

[will_i_am]

the fuck am i supposed to do in madden now.

[mizanation]

he'll still be in there, i'm sure. if they take him out of madden, that's completely fucked up and unacceptable.

[azad]

this whole situation is fucked up at any angle you look at it

[Brienneoftarth]

I just have to say...the US is fucking retarded. I don't agree with dog fighting, but seriously, who the fuck cares about a couple of pitbulls and a dumbass football star when there's a war going on? There are so many more important and incredibly crucial things that we should be working to fix instead of villifying this idiot.

[mizanation]

^^^ yes, our legal system is completely fucked up.

you get less time for manslaughter than animal cruelty in the u.s.

[airportlobbytx]

^^^ yes, our legal system is completely fucked up.

you get less time for manslaughter than animal cruelty in the u.s.

What does our legal system have to do with the war in Iraq? Anyway, animal cruelty is not punished more severely than manslaughter. In Texas animal cruelty is a state jail felony (the lowest level of felonies in this jurisdiction), punishable by jail time from 180 days to 2 years. Manslaughter (involuntary killing) is a second degree felony, punishable by between 2 and 20 years in prison. I.e., in Texas, Manslaughter may be punished by a sentence of 40 times that of cruelty to animals. (Westside will be happy to know that in Texas cruelty to animals only includes animals that are commonly domesticated.)

The amount of misinformation in this thread is alarming. I know PETA activists are easy targets, but they are far from being the only people who want Vick (and cases involving dog fighting) prosecuted.

Also, Vick didn't plead guilty to animal cruelty, he plead guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in support of illegal activity and sponsoring a fighting dog.

[dicksonoffonda]

can't wait to see what kind of sentence he gets on dec 10.

it would suck if madden made you download a software patch where it gets rid of mike vick. :eek:

[mizanation]

What does our legal system have to do with the war in Iraq? Anyway, animal cruelty is not punished more severely than manslaughter. In Texas animal cruelty is a state jail felony (the lowest level of felonies in this jurisdiction), punishable by jail time from 180 days to 2 years. Manslaughter (involuntary killing) is a second degree felony, punishable by between 2 and 20 years in prison. I.e., in Texas, Manslaughter may be punished by a sentence of 40 times that of cruelty to animals. (Westside will be happy to know that in Texas cruelty to animals only includes animals that are commonly domesticated.)

The amount of misinformation in this thread is alarming. I know PETA activists are easy targets, but they are far from being the only people who want Vick (and cases involving dog fighting) prosecuted.

Also, Vick didn't plead guilty to animal cruelty, he plead guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in support of illegal activity and sponsoring a fighting dog.

my bad. are you a lawyer?

[airportlobbytx]

my bad. are you a lawyer?

No problem - I know that the way legal matters are reported are incredibly confusing (and often very inaccurate). Keep in mind that the cases that are reported most sensationally are the outliers - the people who killed a family while drunk driving and received a suspended sentence, etc.

To the second - sort of. Just out of law school and waiting for my bar results. I've worked in a DA's office the last year. Interesting work, definitely.

[eastcoastrider27]

I'm really pissed because with the first 2 picks in my fantasy football draft I selected Mike Vick and Pacman Jones.

[schmoses]

who gives a fuck? they're DOGS. stoopid fukin animals.

IN MY WORLD DOGFIGHTING SHOULD BE LEGAL. I WILL VOTE FOR ANY CANDIDATE WHO SEEKS TO MAKE DOGFIGHTING/ANIMAL CRUELTY LEGAL.

if you are against vick, and you eat meat, you're a fukin hypocrite. you'll see that when that stomach starts growling...you'll eat your fucking pets. have you seen Gummo?

i really wish you were lifetime mayor of wicker park in chicago.

[Francis Begbie]

This shit about him being black is all phooey. White athletes get caught up too. Have we forgot the Duke Lax kids so soon? Colin Finnerty is from fucking GARDEN CITY, Long Island, he's a lax bro, and he went to a rich, white boy school and yet the media was still drooling to take this kid down.

The Duke kids were found guilty by the public and Al Sharpton long before the case went to court. Thank God they were vindicated, but the case will still hang over them for life.

On another note, despite owning a dog, this Vick situation really doesn't bother me. He is an idiot, and shouldn't play football again, but I think jail is overdoing it.

[poly800rock]

great point about the duke kids.

[Icarus]

Fuck jocks!!!

[eastcoastrider27]

The Duke kids were found guilty by the public and Al Sharpton long before the case went to court. Thank God they were vindicated, but the case will still hang over them for life.

I'll agree that those kids were found guilty by the public before their trial, but I'm sure those kids were schmucks anyway, so I don't really care about them.

Plus it's over for them now. It's not going to hang over their heads. Do you even know their names? Doubtful. People will just refer to them as 'the Duke kids.' If someone introduced you to them in a bar, you probably wouldn't know them from a hole in the ground.

[ExileOnMainSt]

when i first heard about this I had the same attitude as Westside, theyre only animals, theyre meant to be killed yea. But the other day when I was stoned watching an HBO Real Sports Bryant Gumbel special on dog fighting, that shit changed my whole perspective..

Its a nasty nasty industry to be involved with, I guess it's big money like big enough for Mike Vick to forget about his endorsements and his contracts

People do cruel shit like steal other people's dogs, break their hips so that other champ dogs can fuck them up. And the dogs that die, some people skin them and feed the dead dog meat to the other dogs.

Westside: say a bunch of greasy sons of bitches jumped in your backyard at night, taped your dogs mouth shut and broke it's hip so a champion dog could fuck it up to up it's tenacity, would you still not care cuz dogs aren't humans?

Please tell me someone else say this special, some of the clips they showed were just disgusting

[JustHaja]

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/709.html

The video is from Penn & Tellers bullshit on PETA please view it if you can i found out some interesting things about these organization...On one hand alot of us have pets and the idea that something that we feed,talk to ,sleep with care for being treated badly or cruely sucks and we as humans are the only ones with the power to save animals but not at our own detriment.

Regarding Vick... the old adage we build them up to watch them fall fits and the fact that hes black and rich probably adds more blood to the feeding frenzy. is it because its dogs that so bad? what if it was an animal that isnt domesticated would we care as much? deer fighting?

I have a couple of questions for you guys since it seems like that issue isnt so much the gambling but the actual dog fighting itself being "cruel" are any on these considered cruel...cruel enough for criminal prosecution?

1. Not finishing you meat breakfast ,lunch, or dinner? the animal was killed so you can eat it throwing it away is a waste of a life no?

2. leather shoes,bags,clothes

3.hunting

4.bull fighting

5. Gordan Ramsey from hells kitchen....have you seen the amount of meat that gets thrown away just because it isnt fillet properly? (see 1)

[ExileOnMainSt]

unless you eat dog meat, wear clothing made from dog hide or any of the above your points are completely irrelevant.

The reason why it's so cruel is because dogs are domesticated animals. If a bull dies in bull fighting, then it shall be eaten. Cattle/Poultry/Pork are farmed so we can kill the fuckin things and eat them.

Yes making money off watching a dog kill another dog is cruel, theres no question about it

[wEstSidE]

exile, you're just about the dumbest person on the planet. you make upncomin look smart.

[ExileOnMainSt]

maybe if i was from the durty souf i'd be smarter

[wEstSidE]

yeah. we hav a better education system.

[JustHaja]

unless you eat dog meat, wear clothing made from dog hide or any of the above your points are completely irrelevant.

The reason why it's so cruel is because dogs are domesticated animals. If a bull dies in bull fighting, then it shall be eaten. Cattle/Poultry/Pork are farmed so we can kill the fuckin things and eat them.

Yes making money off watching a dog kill another dog is cruel, theres no question about it

irrelevant: having no connection with the subject at issue

we:re talking about dog fighting being cruel i highlight why is that cruel but killing animals for things not neccessary to our survival such as leather clothing & shoes not..did i lose you somewhere?

Cruelty is cruelty no? is their a heirachy for animals that we can be cruel to?

Westside wanted to rep but i guess youre popular today.

[poly800rock]

Fuck jocks!!!

are you 15 years old? people like you are the reason my providence kickball team sucked as bad as it did.

[wEstSidE]

irrelevant: having no connection with the subject at issue

we:re talking about dog fighting being cruel i highlight why is that cruel but killing animals for things not neccessary to our survival such as leather clothing & shoes not..did i lose you somewhere?

Cruelty is cruelty no? is their a heirachy for animals that we can be cruel to?

Westside wanted to rep but i guess youre popular today.

the cute ones that we love have to live. god forbid the animals we eat were cute!! then we would go vegan!!! oh no!

[Francis Begbie]

I'll agree that those kids were found guilty by the public before their trial, but I'm sure those kids were schmucks anyway, so I don't really care about them.

You don't care about the Duke kids because they're schmucks? And what exactly was Vick prior to this incident? A model player? Hardly.

And yes, being from New York, of course I know Colin Finnerty's name. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that case will loom over them forever.

[jayrock]

...and I thought Marcus Vick was the dumbass of the family.

[sushijerk]

irrelevant: having no connection with the subject at issue

we:re talking about dog fighting being cruel i highlight why is that cruel but killing animals for things not neccessary to our survival such as leather clothing & shoes not..did i lose you somewhere?

Cruelty is cruelty no? is their a heirachy for animals that we can be cruel to?

Westside wanted to rep but i guess youre popular today.

You are comparing two things in completely different contexts. Is your argument that harvesting leather for non-essential things is just as bad as dogfighting, or are you justifying Michael Vick by saying that since X is accepted, then Y which achieves the same ends must be okay? Because it sounds like the latter and by your logic we can all be drowning puppies and kittens guilt free.

The big difference between dogfighting and anything else we're talking about is the cruelty of having to suffer before death. America has strict guidelines on killing animals for consumption and part of that is to ensure that death is as painless as possible. I'm not sure what regulations are on the fashion side but in this case it is not the death of animals that is relevant but that dogs are made to suffer extensively in an inhumane matter. It is the difference between using the lethal injection as the death penalty and having a bunch of guys hack you to death with machetes, which I think we can agree is a pretty big difference.

edit: What the fuck DMX just busted for the same shit? Authorities say they found a bunch of half starved dogs in his place and a bunch of dog corpses buried in his backyard? The fuck is the attraction to watch dogs fight? Is this some southern tradition shit that ppl can't shake?

[countach!]

edit: What the fuck DMX just busted for the same shit? Authorities say they found a bunch of half starved dogs in his place and a bunch of dog corpses buried in his backyard? The fuck is the attraction to watch dogs fight? Is this some southern tradition shit that ppl can't shake?

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? People have been watching animals fight and kill each other for thousands of fucking years. The romans used to import animals from fucking africa just to watch them kill eachother and get killed by gladiators. Cock fighting has been the norm for centuries. This isn't anything new. We've been using animals for entertainment ever since we've been able to tame them, thats just in our nature.

And have you ever even really seen two dogs fight? Its fucking incredible. Animals fight all the damn time, pretty soon animal activists will want to outlaw animals killing animals.

[airportlobbytx]

That isn't the only difference. Even if cows and chickens were tortured before they were killed, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with that as I do with what Vick did, because no one at a meat processing plant is actively enjoying another animal's pain. Vick seemed to enjoy forcing pain and suffering on his dogs. Why else would he kill them personally, in creative ways, rather than just shooting them in the heads, as many dog owners still do? If you go to a Tyson plant, you won't see sociopaths taking pleasure in an animal's suffering (and I stll wouldn't eat their shit - free range or organic only). It's not a coincidence that cruelty to animals is directly linked to other violent behaviors - only sick fucks enjoy forcing pain on something. Even if I believed people should be allowed to treat dogs exactly as they treat cows, and kill them at will, I would be against cruelty to animals, because it leads to all sorts of other, more dangerous, problems.

And again - this is a major detour from the original point of the conversation - whether Vick got a raw deal or not. Vick has yet to plead or be convicted of cruelty to animals. There is no federal animal cruelty statute. He may still face Virginia state charges on an animal cruelty/dog fighting rap.

[wEstSidE]

monkeys are much smarter and more deserving of human treatment than dogs...but we torture them for our benefit anyway...

my point is that if an animal has an owner, it's only purpose is to benefit that owner...if the owner gets pleasure from killing it, no biggie. his money, his time. i don't see why the government should concern itself with that. now gambling, that's a different issue.