Grindhouse

[englandmj7]

serious question: is this the guy who killed some girl in europe, ate her, was deported back to japan, and is now on various talk shows??

Yep. Insane story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa

He actually wrote an in-depth step-by-step recounting of the process......you can easily find it on the web.

[keagan]

I saw it on saturday. That preview for "Don't" was really, really, really funny.

[Analog]

i just watched this last night. i enjoyed planet terror and all of the movie commercials. i did not like deathproof. way too many self indulgent and boring rants.

Death Proof was fucking excruciating.

[JimJones86]

while i do agree that planet terror was more enjoyable, i wouldnt necissarily say its better. For me one of the best things about tarrantino is how he develops character. Most films never let characters come out in the way that Deathproof does. I understand that it is not AS entertaining as heads exploding and dicks melting, but the crash is insane (tire to the face) the racing is nuts, girls are beautiful, and kurt russel is hilarious. I do agree again that there was a little too much talk at the beggining - not enough bang at first that sets up the audiences expectations of another moment of chaos. Regardless, i like both for different reasons, but definitely don't think its the best tarrantino film, it feels like one story from Pulp Fiction shown in entireity.

[Jezebel]

just saw it tonight, nothing beats the finale of tarantino's 90 mins. absolutely brilliant!

[wild_whiskey]

I liked Death Proof much better. Planet Terror was well done but it didn't bring anything new to the table. I don't believe I've ever felt such blatant satisfaction as I did at the end of Death Proof in a movie before.

[wild_whiskey]

I understand this. Problem was, neither I or any of the 6 people I went with cared about the girls who died in the slightest. In fact, the whole first half of "Death Proof" was so senseless, that I completely forgot it even happened when the second set of girls were introduced. With the second set of girls, the outrageous overracting of the black chick and the New Zealander made me not care if they died either; so I had no emotional connection (neither hate/dislike or like) and was just waiting for something interesting to happen; when it did happen it wasn't even that interesting/exciting to begin with. Anyway, it seemed like two entirely separate movies within one movie. So there were a couple plot twists......you don't know who's going to die and when? And? The whole first movie is filled with this scenario. It doesn't make it "good." There are millions of other factors that make it good, but this isn't a reason to call "Death Proof" a good film.

Point is, you don't need to spend 45minutes "developing" a character for an audience to be able to relate to whether they like/dislike/care about them. A good scriptwriter can make you feel a strong connection with a character in less than 5 minutes.

Lastly, they could have at the very least played "Death Proof" first. You watch all these insane previews and the gorefest which is "Planet Terror" and then you're winded down to an INSANELY slow moving 'car' movie.......um? Bottom line is, if "Death Proof" was a single feature, released on its own and you paid to watch it, there is no way in hell you would recommend it to anyone.

Okay, I'll bite.

I enjoyed Project Terror and I got some great laughs out of it. Personally I felt like it dragged, however. It seemed completely endless, and with no character development whatsoever, I had absolutely no interest in the people, just in zombies getting blown up, and even that can get tiresome. The Weinstein brothers picked up the B-Movie shtick, and some $100 million was spent on this film but nothing about it surpassed actual 70s b-movies, where the budget is less than .5% of theirs. I just never really had an interest in what happened to the characters.

Where Rodriguez was making an homage to B-movies of the 70s, Tarantino was more interested in picking up fragments and aesthetics of them and making something entirely fresh and new. His movie turns from chick flick to horror movie to chick flick to epic car chase so incredibly smoothly, you never even see it coming. Death Proof uses some basic elements of B-Movies but only as an infrastructure to introduce his characters (which I found endearing, though you may disagree), and showcase the best stunt work I've ever seen in a movie.

IMO, Project Terror is a C-, Death Proof is a solid A

[SWB]

The glaring problem with Death Proof was not that the characters were unlikeable (which they were), but that they weren't even remotely interesting. It was like 45 minutes of bad female comics trying to do Samuel L. Jackson impersonations, and honestly it felt like some first-year film student approximation of actual Tarantino dialogue. Whether or not this was intentional, there is no possible justification for wasting two thirds of the movie on such utterly inane, pointless, and pathetically delivered dialogue. No style whatsoever, the conversation content itself was extremely bland and humorless, and it did nothing to develop the characters.

That being said, the last twenty minutes or so were great, and had they capped off something even remotely entertaining or worthwhile, I'm sure Death Proof would've been an incredibly satisfying film. It just seems to me that a large part of the Grindhouse experience is unrelenting excess, a concept that unfortunately only Rodriguez seemed to fully grasp.

[Analog]

^^ Agreed. Except for the "last 20 minutes or so were great" part.

Was I the only one rooting for Kurt Russell? Was I the only one who wanted him to make road kill out of everyone?

The "bad guy" gets his comeuppance in the end? WTF kind of bull shit was that?!?

As for character development, you might be able to make an argument in Tarantino's favour with the first group of girls, but the second group were nothing more than containers/mouth-pieces for self-indulgent dialogue imo.

[destructodisk]

I was getting pissed off at that Zoe lady's accent, and I told to my friend, "I hope she's the first to die of the group."

Sure enough, she's the one who ends up on the front of the car, but sadly she didn't die.

The ending more than made up for that though.

[wild_whiskey]

Why spend $100 million making a purposefully low quality movie with nothing particularly clever or creative?

I suppose you could ask 99% of hollywood film producers that same question, but that doesn't make it okay. Tarantino did something cool with his slot, Rodriguez just made a sort of tribute with no substance, just blood and guts.

Guess I'm in the minority that I actually liked the second set of girls. IMO, you were meant to not like the first set very much. They're all somewhat annoying to an extent, but the second group are much more likeable (and hotter as well).

If you think every black person who drops the word nigger every five words is making a Samuel J. Jackson impersonation, then... guess there's really no point in trying to argue that it was actually good dialogue, which it was. Maybe you were just too tired after the 2.5 hours of blood-spewing nonsense to appreciate talking.

[Hedior]

super brothers: Quentin and Robert

[SWB]

Why spend $100 million making a purposefully low quality movie with nothing particularly clever or creative?

I suppose you could ask 99% of hollywood film producers that same question, but that doesn't make it okay. Tarantino did something cool with his slot, Rodriguez just made a sort of tribute with no substance, just blood and guts.

Guess I'm in the minority that I actually liked the second set of girls. IMO, you were meant to not like the first set very much. They're all somewhat annoying to an extent, but the second group are much more likeable (and hotter as well).

If you think every black person who drops the word nigger every five words is making a Samuel J. Jackson impersonation, then... guess there's really no point in trying to argue that it was actually good dialogue, which it was. Maybe you were just too tired after the 2.5 hours of blood-spewing nonsense to appreciate talking.

I personally thought the second group of girls was much worse. Regardless of the trite "stereotypical black dialogue/mannerisms" bit, they just seemed like a bunch of trashy fourteen year-old girls trying to act like "tough" guys. Didn't pull it off at all. It's like those female standup comedians who try to do a Chris Farley bit; if you can't pull it off, don't try. I actually felt embarassed for the actresses, as they seemed patently oblivious to how tremendously they were failing to pull off the parts. I don't know if that's entirely attributable to the acting itself or simply to poor writing, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd say a large amount of both, probably about 60/40.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very definition of a grind house movie "blood-spewing nonsense"? The point of Grindhouse was not simply to make something "clever or creative" (which to a degree, it was), but rather to make total unadultrated shlock that oozes style. Freddy Rodriguez was the very embodiment of that style; from the ridiculous twenty second montage of him spinning pistols to the ridiculously awesome hospital hallway knife scene, it was all about unecessary stylized violent excess. The intention was never to wow the audience with a remarkable ability to shamelessly drop the name "Vanishing Point" a thousand fucking times in every line. Generally speaking, when making a "tribute" to something, it's relatively tasteful to avoid explicitly slapping the audience in the face with that source material as many times as possible. That alone really killed it for me (if I recall, one of the characters even said "Vanishing Point is one of the greatest movies of all time!").

The true test of good Tarantino dialogue is whether it's quotable a few days, weeks, or months after seeing it. I personally can't remember a single noteworthy line, except maybe a few from Kurt Russell, most of which were in the previews. Don't get me wrong, there was some great stuff in Death Proof, but most of it only came around when the characters finally shut up for a few minutes.

[englandmj7]

Great points SWB.

"Death Proof" lovers:

Virtually every movie that comes out these days is a recreation or reinterpretation of a previous endeavor. So there has been zombie movies before, so what? "Planet Terror" was insanely original, stylish, and extremely witty.

Most people who I have argued "Death Proof" with have only gone on about: "character development.........can't you appreciate how he developed the characters, you FELT for them." Um, no, I actually, and not for the sake of argument here, felt 100x more of an 'emotional' connection with the characters in "Planet Terror." Do you know why? Because I hated/despised every single girl in "Death Proof" I didn't give two craps if they died. I WANTED them to die. And since when did emotional connection make a good film? If you are strictly looking for an absurdly drawn-out emotional attachment to characters, watch Simon Birch:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124879/

I didn't go to watch a Tarantino flick to hear girls talk about who they have crushes on, who they did makeup for, and what fantasies they have for friggin' 60 minutes. Not to mention, the gross overracting on the part of at least 4 of the actresses; it was appalling. And for christ's sake, the last 20 minutes did not justify anything. The only movie that ever even remotely suceeded in becoming a good movie (although it was 99% shit) simply because of the ending was the "Blair Witch Project"............

At the end of the day, it's all my 'film' friends (the guys who studied screenwriting in college, and are subsequently cold calling businesses to sell them printers) arguing that "Death Proof" is better solely because it is the more unconvential of the two, and thus, the intellectual, 'intelligent' film student must go against the grain here. This is the EXACT same situation that happened when "History of Violence" came out and was widely received by critics........people tried to argue the character development, the rawness, and the originality. HOV was by far, one of the worst films I have ever seen in my entire life. The second movie I have every had the urge to walk out of (the other being "Hoop Dreams," which I did walk out of ) "Death Proof" was appallingly bad. I have never been so adamantly disgusted with a movie.

Why spend $100 million making a purposefully low quality movie with nothing particularly clever or creative?.

You will find very few people who felt that this film lacked creativity, and particularly hard-pressed to find people who didn't think it was clever/witty.

Maybe you were just too tired after the 2.5 hours of blood-spewing nonsense to appreciate talking.

Ugh dude, come on. Appreciate 'talking'? This is the stereotypical holier-than-thou movie 'buff' argument. I'm not a jughead jock, I am an avid movie watcher with a collection numbering in the thousands (many of them entirely obscure foreign films, etc.). Don't try the whole "your appreciation of movies is limited to blood & guts, you can't even begin to comprehend the glory that is 'Death Proof.'" It's not like that at all. I love intellectually stimulating movies, but this one simply was not stimulating. I didn't go to an exploitation/grindhouse film to watch girls talking for 60 minutes.........

But anyway Wild_Whiskey, nothing personal man; just venting on the first pro-Death Proof person to cross my path this morning, he heh.

[wild_whiskey]

Meh; we'd never see eye to eye, but it's nice arguing it with you.

I appreciate your opinion.

That was entirely intended as a joke........hence the smiley face.

As indicated by my smiley I got the joke.

[Ryan]

wild whiskey,youre thinking project terror because that was the name of the...project in the movie..

when dude gets on a POCKET bike it was practically game over for me. best movie evar.

I also didn't particularly care for either group of girls in Death Proof, but godam that Jungle Julia(sp) girl was annoying as hell..

[mlproject]

i'm not going to masturbate, reitterating film knowledge, etc because i have none, but...

fucking loved it.