Original 201

[Darkadious]

same model, different cut/seller

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-OLDEST-ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-JEANS-IN-LEVI-HISTORY_W0QQitemZ290065223376QQihZ019QQcategoryZ52386QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[airfrogusmc]

Actually these are one pocket older than the 201s he had listed before. Good catch though.

[Chicken]

then here's the same model, different seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290065211527&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RUPX_BID_Stores_IT&refitem=290065223376&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=UpSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

[airfrogusmc]

Did you read why the other auction was cancelled?

[Chicken]

yeah? faulty server or something?

perhaps they thought they'd make more money if they extended the auction a bit.

[Paul T]

One pocket - VERY interesting. But are they actually Levi's? Can they read the tag? Because they are constructionally very different from early Levi's, partiuclarly the felled outside seam, while the pocket design is very different too. Early Boss Of The Road look a lot like that. The arcuate don't mean a thing, other makers had them too, and as for Jacob davis making them, there's no evidence he made pants in denim, as opposed to cotton duck (He gave a court deposition in a trademark infringement case, and testified that most of his early pants were made in white cotton).

Intriguing, though, but it does remind me of the real problem of ebay, that you're buying a pig in a poke, without being able to examine the item in person. If it IS genuine, though, I imagine Lynn Downey will be getting out the company checkbook...

[airfrogusmc]

Paul whats your guess? And the 201s?

[Dick Danger]

hhhhmmmm

They're only few hours away from me. I wonder if the seller would let take a look at them?

Interesting.

[Paul T]

Paul whats your guess? And the 201s?

My guess? I would guess the 201s are genuine, parlty because the seller seems legit, altho I wouldn't bid unless I check them in person first.

And I think with the others that they're flying a kite. I really believe they're more likely to be Boss Of The Road than Levi's, or 'Jacob Davis'. BOTR had linen wiastband tags, felled outside seams and pocket placement that all look pretty similar to this. As far as I can see, there's no evidence at all that they're in any way connected with Levi's - I've emailed them to ask. I'd love to know what Lynn Downey thinks.

[airfrogusmc]

Paul, yeah I e-mailed her the links also. Thanks for your opinion.

[Paul T]

They emailed me. THere's no evidence of any connection with Levi's - and the patch is linen. Surprise, surprise, they didn't post my question and their response on the listing.

It seems to be the arcuate that makes them think these pants are connected with Lev'is. But just to remind everyone, there's no evidence in fact that Levi's invented the arcuate - it's possible other workwear makers had similar designs, even before Levi's. Most of all, these pants don't bear any resemblance at all to the two authentic known pairs of Levi's from 1880 or so.

[Paul T]

kix - check out mopar_jj's photobucket: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/

he's sitting on a goldmine.

taken from original thread at http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=11642

who's mopar_jj?

Interesting jeans, but not sure you should take them as an accurate guide. at least one pair looks fake to me, the cfinchback is in the wrong place, it has the wrong arcuate, and some of the information is just plain wrong (for instnacem, blank tab means a post 1971 jean).

The cinch is in the wong place, plus cinchback jeans should have a single stitched arcuate and leather patch. Should look like this

[mopar_jj]

Thats me....

Hey Paul - You are correct in that there is a pair of fakes in the photobucket. I have a couple thai fakes. Those above are Levis Japan if memory serves, but I will have to get them out in order to make sure.

As for the captions on the picture -- I did them up as an 'acid test' of vintage for someone a while back. Used those jeans because they contained most everything we were talking about at the time - even tho they are repros. As for the tag someone was making reference to the famous blank tab as if it ment something in terms of vintage, which as you said only means they were made after 71, meaning they could be made in 2006!

MJj

[mopar_jj]

I checked those ones in the pic. They are US made Levis - 501-4589, cant find any info on google about them - anyone got any ideas. They look legit to me.(real levis tag, v on top button correct, 501 stamped on top button, etc)

[airfrogusmc]

Looks like he sold both pairs

The 201s fetched alnost 6 grand

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290065211527&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RUPX_BID_Stores_IT&refitem=290065223376&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=UpSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

And these other jeans got 10 grand

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-OLDEST-ANTIQUE-VINTAGE-JEANS-IN-LEVI-HISTORY_W0QQitemZ290065223376QQihZ019QQcategoryZ52386QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Bijan]

Mopar, I just got a pair of bogus 501's on eBay. They, too, have 501 stamped on the top button. They also have a lower rise than they should. Scope the rivets on yours, the ones on mine aren't quite right.

[mopar_jj]

Rivets look good to me - If these are fakes, I would be very surprised. I have 2 pairs of thai fakes, not near the quality of the ones pictured above. I put the buckleback up in the loop like that cause it was scratching stuff. The tag on the inside is identical to a more modern levis tag - no sp. mistakes, made in the usa wpl 423- selevedge on the inside of the coin pocket. Maybe a sample piece? I have never been able to find any info on them.

Paul T?

[Bijan]

Does the inner tag have the silver thread? Mine have selvedge in the coin pocket, too. The fit isn't quite right, either- the legs seem too straight. Is the waist tag on yours leather? Mine is, and it is a weird brown color. Mine do not have hidden rivets, just bartacks. I'll try to take some pics.

[mopar_jj]

The tag has the silver thread - shrinkage 10%, Tag is paper V stitch near front button

Dont think anyone knows anything about these. If they are fakes, they are the best fakes I have ever seen - quality wise I dont think they are. Seems like Japanese denim to me as well

[Paul T]

Hi Mopar, sorry I realise I sounded rude.

What I meant about the cinch on those jeans is that it's in the wrong place. The rivet for the cinch should be at the bottom edge of the waistband, so the cinch half covers the waistband as opposed to being below it. It's jeans like this that I've seen on sale in reputable shops, eg Urban Outfitters, in the UK, which the Urban Outfitters buyer was sure were genuine but which turned out to be counterfeit. They are good looking jeans and have the right feel but I"m pretty certain they were not made by Levi's....

[mopar_jj]

Hey Paul, No problem

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_013-1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_012-1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_011-1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_010-1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_009-1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/mopar_jj/pic_008-1.jpg

Couple snaps, sorry for crappy quality but my cam will no longer take a good close up

They are the best, by far fakes I have ever seen - way ahead of the thai stuff. Makes me think they came from japan

[mopar_jj]

bump! at least 10 char!

[Bijan]

Mopar, I don't see the silver thread on the inside label, looks sort of like the label on my fakes. I'll post some pics of them very soon.

[airfrogusmc]

I just got an e-mail from Lynn Downey (Levis) and she said the 201s are the real deal and would date them between 1901 and 1922.

On the other pair there was no way they (the seller) could prove they were Levis. The are old but all the styling is wong for early Levis.