how's your edge? sf edition----if you aren't now, you never were

[Guest jmatsu]

  Larry Bird said:

fuck it, ill ask one then...how many members are still sxe?

none of them.

[Guest jmatsu]

  cureOne said:

now i don't believe you

1. which records did you play on?

2. have you converted to islam like the singer?

1. none, just shows.

2. sean never really converted and no, never.

[derdankhund]

i like straight edge folks...it just means that there will be more fun substances for me to play with...

[zelah]

my 21st birthday in 2 weeks will mark 21 years of the edge

oh and fuck hardcore

[constant struggle]

straight edge for about 6 years.... still edge

22 years old..

still going to hardcore shows...

who else is still edge

[Mr Waffles]

ive been not edge longer than you have been edge so i win,

[soulcraft]

I was for 8 years, broke edge a couple of months ago. Looking back iot was good time, no regrets here but I have to say...

Guiness is for strength

[snickersnicker]

I know I can't be the only one. I'm sure a few people here have to own Youth of Today shirts or an X Swatch.

Anyway, aside from the standbys, what have you been listening to edgewise? Set It Straight from Redwood, CA is one of the most exciting straight edge bands I've heard in a few years (recently broke up, I believe?), but I think the best newer band is Ambitions. I've been a huge Turning Point fan for as long as I've been into hardcore, and I don't think any bands have managed to mix that melodic early-90s sound with more punk/rock-based instrumentation and pull it off nearly as well as they have. I saw them with Bane, Modern Life is War and the Geeks a few months ago and they had crazy energy. Also, thread can't be posted without mention of Dangers!, of course.

[zelah]

minor threat

i don't listen to straight edge music, how much original material can actually be written (thats good) on the same subject that wasn't covered by minor threat.

[constant struggle]

I'm Straight Edge

sxe bands im into nowadays...

DOWN TO NOTHING www.myspace.com/downtonothing

THE MONGOLOIDS www.myspace.com/mongoloidsnj

[snickersnicker]

  zelah said:

minor threat

i don't listen to straight edge music, how much original material can actually be written (thats good) on the same subject that wasn't covered by minor threat.

I guess that sort of depends on how you define a "straight edge band." For example, Frail, Policy of Three and Portraits of Past were all mid-90s hardcore bands not in any way associated with typical youth crew/straight edge scenes, and the only one that ever wrote songs specifically about straight edge was Frail. The other bands had record inserts about straight edge beliefs, or were on straight edge comps, and so on, but I would definitely have no problems considering any of them straight edge bands.

I think if you stick to bands that write a lot of songs about straight edge or are directly involved with the straight edge scene, you end up with a zillion bands that sound like Gorilla Biscuits and a zillion bands that sound like Champion (nothing against either band, of course) and not much else. I dig Minor Threat, but even when it comes to bands that focused mainly on straight edge themes, they're barely even the tip of the iceberg. Especially once bands like Earth Crisis, XXXBIRTHRIGHTXXX (Pete Wentz, what?), etc came along, there was a lot of musical and ideological diversity within the straight edge scene, and they introduced a lot of radical political thought which laid the ground for a whole new niche of straight edge/vegan hardcore (for which I'm personally very grateful).

Basically, I don't really think it's fair to limit straight edge music to Minor Threat, Chain of Strength and Floorpunch because there really is a pretty wide variety of stuff out there which sounds absolutely nothing like any of those bands but is unquestionably just as focused on straight edge beliefs and messages.

Talking about straight edge vegan metallic hardcore reminded me of the best bands doing that style today:

ATTRITION (think Gather, Seven Generations, other chaotic metalcore, etc) [ http://myspace.com/attritiondc ]

GREYSKULL (more His Hero is Gone, epic crusty influence; less metallic hardcore) [ http://www.stereokiller.com/bands/bands.cfm?id=26526&dl=1 ...no MP3s, but if you write them an email they will probably send you a free demo or something ]

[Icarus]

I identified with Straight Edge throughout high school but then came to the realization in my senior year that the "movement" is full of hypocrites. I feel that gripping the straight edge banner with all your might and refusing to move outside of it, depending on it for self identity, that you close your mind to many other possibilities or truths. Seeing how thecore intent is motivated by "pro-positive thinking" and anti-dependency, freedom from any self-defining activities like smoking pot and being a pothead, for example, I can't help but thinking that the limited definition of "Straight Edge" is hypocritical.

[xerikx]

/me for almost 7 years

[snickersnicker]

Straight edge, to me, isn't about positive thinking at all. I'm an extremely fucking negative, hateful person. It has more to do with being aware of what's going on around me and being in control of all of my faculties and my own life. And I don't mean "being aware of what's going on around me" as simply being mentally alert to my immediate surroundings, but as choosing not to numb the experience of living in a world in which there is a lot of pain and suffering. I view alcohol and drugs, much like religion/spirituality (or any other superstitious/illogical/irrational beliefs), as an escape; a cheap way to numb the increasing insanity that envelops the lives of anyone who chooses to accept the burden of experiencing the full brunt of life.

[Icarus]

But isn't the most important thing to be able to view the world without retreating from it in order to make a change? Being able to see it and to experience it but do nothing about it is just as bad if not worse than not being conscious to it at all.

[aziz]

I have a few friends that are "Straight Edge"...they have X's on there hands...but at least their drug free.

[moondog]

8 years...dont even think about it

[jeepster]

i tried being straight edge from 8th-10th grade, and it just didnt work for me. i have nothing against the philosophy or people who are straight edge, thats your choice, but its such a conservative way of thinking about whats around you. it closes so many doors, forgetting the denial of drugs/alcohol, it just seems like a generally monotonous existence. i mean, obviously you can be social and not have to drink/drugs/etc., but don't you think professing your straight edge beliefs would close doors to certain experiences that would be beneficial/interesting/influential? im not saying theres anything wrong with it, and im sure im making much ado about nothing, but i feel like i was so much more "conservative" when i was straight edge as opposed to now, when i do what i feel. its not some hippie-dippy sorta "i love pot/alcohol/etc" free-for-all, but it allows me to be sociable in a way that otherwise would not be particularly welcoming. and no sex? what is that? i never understood that, and its not as if i was getting laid at the time when i was "straight edge", but i never understood that. its the most human, non-self-corrupting expression of normalcy and well, humanity. it doesn't matter if you're straight or gay, sex is something that can be universally enjoyed without becoming a vice or turning you into a slave (unless you're into that kinda thing.. kinky.), and because of this, the philosophy also professes the denial of certain emotions. like snickersnicker said, he is a generally hateful person. did you ever stop to think why you might be so baleful and disenfranchised with the world around you? maybe it was the closing off of certain ethos before they could even reach you? maybe, but that was your choice.

i just see straight edge attitude as a void for negative and conservative thinking/emoting. its not constructive and it seems to produce a good deal of the hate that comes out of the hardcore scene. despite how much good you think you're doing by abstaining from certain activities, you limit yourself and your way of thinking. you don't have to buy into a mob-mentality of always being the opposite of what the "norm" is considered, but maybe i don't know what im talking about. maybe my choice to leave the world of straight edge philosophy has jaded me to the idea that by abstaining from certain parts of lexicon of life is for my own good, and is an ethos that is sound and wholesome. who knows, but what i do know is that i have respect for people who chose a straight-edge lifestyle in a world that deems them to be some sort of menial social caste, low on the chain of things, right next to vegans and anarchists. and don't get me wrong, though i may sound condescending, i can understand a lot of what you experience on a day to day level. but again, it can be such a limited existence, its hard for me to picture being straight edge today. (and this makes a point of whether my choice to end my straight-edge-itude might have actually limited me, but that my friends, is a discussion for another time.)

This is my opinion, I am not trying to belittle your beliefs, but rather have an intelligent and constructive discussion on the aforementioned topics. So don't flip, cause I'm not trying to make enemies.

[snickersnicker]

  Icarus said:

But isn't the most important thing to be able to view the world without retreating from it in order to make a change? Being able to see it and to experience it but do nothing about it is just as bad if not worse than not being conscious to it at all.

Which is why I'm going into constitutional and international law - to make an impact. Straight edge, and even moreso hardcore/punk/whatever as a whole, is dependent upon individuals choosing to be aware of the repercussions of their decisions and to take action to better the world (or their country, state, community, what have you). This is why I'm more personally drawn to the radical, extremist side of the straight edge hardcore scene (direct action, animal liberation, political activism, etc), even though I may not agree with all of the tenants or methods.

Either way, I would make the argument that simply choosing to see and experience a fucked up life makes one a stronger person than anyone who would choose to retreat from the same opportunity. Both people may accomplish nothing, but the choice of having a spine and being strong-willed and strong-minded alone is worth something in and of itself.

[keagan]

haha, Jim Shorts.

I have no absolutely problem with straight edge kids- that don't preach and bitch, but when you goto a show and some douche bag with a new era hat on and a bandana around there neck, commands me to put out my cigarette in a club where it's perfectly allowed/legal and unobtrusive to said douchebag then we have a problem.

this, by the way, has happened before.

[keagan]

Though, the actual meaning/idea/intentions of it is pretty dead. Most straight edge kids here don't even know who Ian Mackaye is. And if you don't do drugs or smoke- you're instantly "straight edge".

"Straight Edge" has become synonymous with simply being sober.

[snickersnicker]

  jeepster said:

i mean, obviously you can be social and not have to drink/drugs/etc., but don't you think professing your straight edge beliefs would close doors to certain experiences that would be beneficial/interesting/influential?

I don't think being straight edge has ever limited my ability to have a beneficial and positive social interaction. From middle school to this very day, most of my close friends are social drinkers, recreational drug users, or hard drug addicts. Two of my friends have been in methadone clinics within the last year. I have no problem hanging out with a bunch of dudes while they drop acid and listen to William Basinski. With one exception, I don't have a single close friend that identifies as straight edge.

  jeepster said:

and no sex? what is that? i never understood that, and its not as if i was getting laid at the time when i was "straight edge", but i never understood that. its the most human, non-self-corrupting expression of normalcy and well, humanity. it doesn't matter if you're straight or gay, sex is something that can be universally enjoyed without becoming a vice or turning you into a slave (unless you're into that kinda thing.. kinky.)

I think you're sorely misguided when it comes to the issue of straight edge and sex. I had sex last night. I'll have sex tomorrow night. People who live a straight edge lifestyle don't abstain from sex - if that were the case, I would surely never have associated myself with such a pointlessly constrictive belief system. However, straight edgers abstain from promiscuous sex, which can pretty easily develop into a vice.

  jeepster said:

because of this, the philosophy also professes the denial of certain emotions. like snickersnicker said, he is a generally hateful person. did you ever stop to think why you might be so baleful and disenfranchised with the world around you? maybe it was the closing off of certain ethos before they could even reach you? maybe, but that was your choice.

I'm not immediately hateful toward individuals, but society or humankind as a whole. However, that doesn't mean that I won't do all I can to try to benefit it. I suppose you could call me a misanthropic humanist, if that makes any sense. I'm an extremely friendly, polite and social person, and treat people like worthy persons until they prove to me that they're not worthy of such consideration. I wouldn't have been chosen as an RA at my university if I were some anti-social, venemous individual.

Also, before any discussion continues, I feel the need to state that I am a strict social libertarian in favour of decriminalisation of marijuana and other relatively safe drugs (LSD, mescaline, etc).

[keagan]

  jeepster said:

i just see straight edge attitude as a void for negative and conservative thinking/emoting. its not constructive and it seems to produce a good deal of the hate that comes out of the hardcore scene.[/b].

This is a good point too. This sounds kind of juvenile but look at the psychedelic revolution of the 60's. Obviously the message was very warm, peace and love bullshit.

The message of hardcore scene of today is basically "CRUB STOMP UR ASS!!!!!!!!1111111111".

[jeepster]

  snickersnicker said:

I don't think being straight edge has ever limited my ability to have a beneficial and positive social interaction. From middle school to this very day, most of my close friends are social drinkers, recreational drug users, or hard drug addicts. Two of my friends have been in methadone clinics within the last year. I have no problem hanging out with a bunch of dudes while they drop acid and listen to William Basinski. With one exception, I don't have a single close friend that identifies as straight edge.

I think you're sorely misguided when it comes to the issue of straight edge and sex. I had sex last night. I'll have sex tomorrow night. People who live a straight edge lifestyle don't abstain from sex - if that were the case, I would surely never have associated myself with such a pointlessly constrictive belief system. However, straight edgers abstain from promiscuous sex, which can pretty easily develop into a vice.

I'm not immediately hateful toward individuals, but society or humankind as a whole. However, that doesn't mean that I won't do all I can to try to benefit it. I suppose you could call me a misanthropic humanist, if that makes any sense. I'm an extremely friendly, polite and social person, and treat people like worthy persons until they prove to me that they're not worthy of such consideration. I wouldn't have been chosen as an RA at my university if I were some anti-social, venemous individual.

Also, before any discussion continues, I feel the need to state that I am a strict social libertarian in favour of decriminalisation of marijuana and other relatively safe drugs (LSD, mescaline, etc).

ok, completely understandable. it gives me a good image of a more "positive" or at least quasi-positive indication that straight-edge has not become a completely shut-off system in this day and age. what is interesting though is that many straight edge, or at least straight edge followers that are extremely dedicated to the culture, do abstain from sex. obviously, thats a misconception. but despite your outlook on humanity, don't you ever feel at times that you have lost out on certain experiences? wouldn't it be more productive to not emulate and follow a mentality that was dictated by an song released in 1981 that has been so overshadowed by what it has become? its truly one of the ultimate signs of conformity and social complancency, don't you think? i mean, only our thinking sets us apart from one another, and wouldn't your thought process be severely restricted by following such a lifestyle? i consider myself a strong, free-willed, very liberal, and increasingly worldly (i guess it happens as you get older? haha) individual, and its not like drugs or alcohol have stopped me from being such.

i feel like ian mackaye is made such a god head for something that has turned so many people off to so many great experiences in life. forget for the moment that you are for the decriminilization of these drugs, and that you're just trying to make a difference in the world. social libertarianism? its a neo-cons best friend. it just seems to me that straight edge philosophy preaches the benefits of a closed society demanding abstinence from certain parts of life - certain parts that might be mind expanding/stimulating (not in the drug sense, but in the sense of making one more wordly) or experiences that might have the opposite effect. in all, what im trying to say is, why live a closed life? its not beneficial to think that you're the only one angry at the world and how it works and how you feel like everything is conspiring against you - instead, just get positive and go out and do something. you don't have to do drugs, and you don't have to be straight edge, you just make the decision to be yourself, instead of classifying yourself and appropriating you desicions/actions in life to a group ethos and mentality.

for some reason this discussion reminds me of The Stranger.

[snickersnicker]

I don't think it's very fair to associate straight edge as a set of beliefs with "the straight edge scene as a whole" in the same way that it's not fair to associate punk/hardcore as a social-ideological movement with "the punk/hardcore scene." The two are separate, and couldn't be further removed from each other. However, for some reason, a lot of toughguy dudes associate themselves and their bands/scenes/whatever with the belief system. Shoe collector hardcore kids are just trendhoppers who got sick of Everytime I Die and decided to jock Fight It Out instead. They're the equivalent of dudes in patched leather vests and bullet belts sitting on porches drinking 40s representing punk.

If you look at it historically, it's sort of a rise-and-fall thing: Minor Threat brings up the idea of abstaining from vices as a way to be more productive and socially/politically aware; three years later SSD bring it to Boston and make it a Bruins-jersey-wearing-slugfest that is basically totally against what Minor Threat was writing about. In the later-80s, Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits write songs about staying productive, serving your community, and vegetarianism; a bunch of toughguy bands (Slapshot, Madball, etc) come out of the woodwork a few years later and nearly start race riots. Turning Point releases a few songs that change the lyrical focus of straight edge hardcore to introspective positivity in 1991; by 1993, shitty, fluffy crossover metalcore bands rule the coasts. Then things get a little murky and ethically questionable with stuff like Earth Crisis, Vegan Reich, etc in the mid-90s and by 1996 straight edge has sort of fallen off the map, only to have a huge revival of politically and socially active hardcore in '97/'98, replaced by mosh metal and cheesy mall metalcore. It just so happens that the dominant mode of the American straight edge hardcore scene right now is flat-brims and Bruce Lee shit at shows. There are still bands with great messages, and plenty of bands whose lyrics and actions are directly opposed to toughguy shit. You just have to dig a little deeper.

[snickersnicker]

  jeepster said:

despite your outlook on humanity, don't you ever feel at times that you have lost out on certain experiences?

Some might view it as missing out; I view it as something I don't need in my life. I explained most of that in my first response to Icarus. I don't need drugs or alcohol in the same way I don't need god. I don't want a crutch.

  jeepster said:

wouldn't it be more productive to not emulate and follow a mentality that was dictated by an song released in 1981 that has been so overshadowed by what it has become? its truly one of the ultimate signs of conformity and social complancency, don't you think?

I'm not emulating or following any mentality by choice. I've made the choice not to smoke, drink, do drugs, or participate in promiscuous sex. To me, that just happens to be straight edge. I'm a firm believer in civil liberties, free dissemination of thoughts and feelings, and personal responsibility, and that makes me a libertarian. I didn't actively make a choice to label myself either of those things, but I did choose to prescribe to a set of beliefs which just happens to have a title to go with it. If the term "straight edge" didn't exist, would I still be drug free? I'm sure of it.

  jeepster said:

i mean, only our thinking sets us apart from one another, and wouldn't your thought process be severely restricted by following such a lifestyle?

Once again, that comes down to whether you want to call it missing out on something, or simply not needing or wanting something. I don't think it's hard to view being a drug or alcohol user being restrictive to one's thought process. To take it a little further, I'm an atheist (or, more specifically, antitheist). Am I choosing to limit my thought by refusing to believe in gods or religious scriptures, or would someone who chooses to put faith in such things be limiting their thougt by refusing to believe in rationality or logic? It all depends in what you think is right, or which choice will yield the best results for you.

(Won't respond to the rest of the post because I think the above do a sufficient job.)

[Denim Phenom]

I miss Desperate Measures.

[jeepster]

  snickersnicker said:

Some might view it as missing out; I view it as something I don't need in my life. I explained most of that in my first response to Icarus. I don't need drugs or alcohol in the same way I don't need god. I don't want a crutch.

I'm not emulating or following any mentality by choice. I've made the choice not to smoke, drink, do drugs, or participate in promiscuous sex. To me, that just happens to be straight edge. I'm a firm believer in civil liberties, free dissemination of thoughts and feelings, and personal responsibility, and that makes me a libertarian. I didn't actively make a choice to label myself either of those things, but I did choose to prescribe to a set of beliefs which just happens to have a title to go with it. If the term "straight edge" didn't exist, would I still be drug free? I'm sure of it.

Once again, that comes down to whether you want to call it missing out on something, or simply not needing or wanting something. I don't think it's hard to view being a drug or alcohol user being restrictive to one's thought process. To take it a little further, I'm an atheist (or, more specifically, antitheist). Am I choosing to limit my thought by refusing to believe in gods or religious scriptures, or would someone who chooses to put faith in such things be limiting their thougt by refusing to believe in rationality or logic? It all depends in what you think is right, or which choice will yield the best results for you.

(Won't respond to the rest of the post because I think the above do a sufficient job.)

word to all of that, and i completely respect it, but by being so opposed to these issues, would this entail that you would even refuse the study of them? i know plenty of straight-edge people that close themselves off to even reading the works of Yates (know alcoholic) or Huxley (experimented heavily with LSD) or the religious writings - whats your thought on this? if anything, its completely counter-productive because it would limit their ability to take apart an argument, or even just a intelligent discussion. i'm sure you've met straight-edge people that follow this intense "anti-" choice because in a way, they see it as a breaking of edge. its sort of "fundamentalist" straight edge.

every had experience with those kinds of people?

[julianREE]

  snickersnicker said:

I know I can't be the only one. I'm sure a few people here have to own Youth of Today shirts or an X Swatch.

Anyway, aside from the standbys, what have you been listening to edgewise? Set It Straight from Redwood, CA is one of the most exciting straight edge bands I've heard in a few years (recently broke up, I believe?), but I think the best newer band is Ambitions. I've been a huge Turning Point fan for as long as I've been into hardcore, and I don't think any bands have managed to mix that melodic early-90s sound with more punk/rock-based instrumentation and pull it off nearly as well as they have. I saw them with Bane, Modern Life is War and the Geeks a few months ago and they had crazy energy. Also, thread can't be posted without mention of Dangers!, of course.

set it straight is breaking up, i'm going to the last show at the gilman at the beginning of september. as for "straight edge" bands around now, i like internal affairs and have heart.

i recently gave up straight edge because the message is basically dead to me, i've just grown so apathetic that i don't give a fuck about anything, straight edge included. i do respect the people who are straight edge and truly believe in what they say though. But there is just too many people who label themselves edge who aren't at all, which was another turn off..

[Mr Fingers]

I was straight edge for most of the 90s. I'm not anymore but I retained the think-for-yourself attitude that I feel was the essence and strength of that ideology.

I never really associated with straight edge dudes though, and aside from early Revelation and Dischord bands, I never got into the music. I quickly realized that the scene was dominated by meathead thugs and jocks (at least where I was living, though I heard similar complaints from friends worldwide), which is what I was always trying to escape in hardcore.