Help with black denim...

[RBales]

I've decided that since winter is coming, and it's going to be depressing here in Chicago, I need a pair of black jeans, and I've decided this is the perfect opportunity to jump into the japanese denim arena. The current contestants are the Samurai S5000BK, which I would probably order (or have 2000db order me) from here, or the PBJ XX-005 Black from BiG. Price is not a consideration.

However, what is a consideration is fit/quality. I know no one can really say as to the quality of the fades that the XX-005BK will produce, but BiG's site claims that they fade like indigo, which is a plus. The S5000BKs are a different matter, and most people seem to be of the opinion that to produce any significant wear they must be worn for upwards of 1.5-2 years (:eek:), which isn't really a problem, but that strikes me as an indication that they fade unlike normal indigo jeans (are there any pics of faded Samurai BK's to confirm/disprove this?)

As to the fit, I wear my jeans somewhat slouchy. I would estimate my actual waist at right around a 32, maybe a little less. I wear a 30 in APC Rescues, which slouch nicely, and a 32 in my Nudies, though they've stretched so much it's probably safe to say I could have sized down to a 31. After sifting through the thread on blue PBJ XX-005s, it seems to be the consensus that buying one's true waist will result in a very slim, form-fitting jean, which isn't what I want, so if I were to go with the PBJs, I would probably size up one (?). The Samurai's, on the other hand, appear to be a regular fit in a shrink-to-fit denim, and the consensus on the S5000 cut in general seems to be to size down 2 for a normal fit, so I'm assuming I would size down only one to get a slouchy fit (?).

Sorry for the long post, but since I won't be trying these on I want to make sure I get the sizing right the first time. What would you guys do? I'm torn

[poly800rock]

the pure blue's might fade a bit faster than samurai because the weave of pure blue's is so coarse, but overall, black jeans will take longer regardless of how they fade. BIG saying that it fades like indigo is that it will fade like indigo, it doesn't really mean the time of fading will occur at the same rate

[viv1984viv]

ok, my new standards fit like a regular jean, my pbj05's in the same size fit tight, however my new standards have stretched, the pure blues are tighter than the apcs ever were,

so dont size up if you want a slimmer fit, but bear in mind these sit below your waist.

actually I have 32hips and a 31pbj is good.

as for the black denim, im not really that familiar with it, but the hype on those samurai is that they do fade like indigo! There is this one pic on a black denim thread and they look amazing. From what i remember the sammies are overdyed black, I dont know much about the pbj blacks, dunno if any one has em yet.

yknow if you like to slouch your jeans pureblues may not be for you, the waist is cut at least as low as a new standard.

uberslouch: http://caliroots.com/system/search/product.asp?id=6649

[RBales]

Viv, are you saying that the PBJ's will have a somewhat slouchy look already designed into them through their lower waist? My intention with sizing up would just be to ease the tension up off my thighs, which are pretty bulky due to hockey and weightlifting. Would sizing up not achieve this effect? Also, those eiffel's are rediculous!

And poly, thanks for clarifying that for me. The slow fade isn't such an issue since i tend to like my jeans to have a cleaner, darker look anway. I like dirty contrasts.

[viv1984viv]

nah, on me and most others I looked at before I bought them they have a hipster feel, fitted seat and low waist. I can slouch em and as they stretch I expect they will slouch better. To be honest theyre not really as good at slouching as apcs.

Im 5'8, and 140lbs these are pretty tight on my thighs front and back, most people in the pure blue thread complaining the thighs are too tight unless your skinny.

I would be careful if I was you, these are very slim, your muscles might not fit in em.

From what youve said about wanting to slouch and having muscled legs things seem to be pointing towards the sammies.

Dont let me influence you too much. I dont own any samurais.

[Darkadious]

i'm in the same position you are RBales

can't decide between the bks or the pbjs ;\

[Dex_star]

what about skulls?

[RBales]

what about skulls?

i've heard that the skulls are cut very slim. do they have any regular cuts?

[Dex_star]

they have a few cuts actually... and i remember they have an "ebony" line which, obviously, consisted of black denim

theres links on the first page of the thread to a list of their jeans

edit: upon review of the site, i dont think any, besides the 5010xx (super slim) come in dry black

[truestorytravis]

viv1984viv, I was just reading through the s5000 thread and both hjj and ddml said that the 5000bk are not overdyed--no blue used.

Dex star, Skulls also have dry black in the 5507 cut which is looser than the 5010, but still quite slim. Check out the Skull thread for pics of the 5507 black or go to the Fab Four online shop. The 5507 and 5010 come in a model with black warp and white weft so that they'll fade like a regular indigo jean. The ebony series has both black warp and black weft so there will be little/no contrast as they wear.

As others have stated/implied, the choice between the sammys and the pbjs is going to be all about the fit. For a hockey player, the pbjs are probably not going to work, but that's only my educated guess. In your case RBales, it sounds like you would want to go with the sammys and size down to fit. Read the "samurai s5000 owners" thread for more info. Search for it, I don't feel like linking it.

[Dex_star]

Dex star, Skulls also have dry black in the 5507 cut which is looser than the 5010, but still quite slim. Check out the Skull thread for pics of the 5507 black or go to the Fab Four online shop. The 5507 and 5010 come in a model with black warp and white weft so that they'll fade like a regular indigo jean. The ebony series has both black warp and black weft so there will be little/no contrast as they wear.

they'll still take longer to wear in tho just like most black denim right?

[truestorytravis]

they'll still take longer to wear in tho just like most black denim right?

as far as i know.

[poly800rock]

viv1984viv, I was just reading through the s5000 thread and both hjj and ddml said that the 5000bk are not overdyed--no blue used.

Dex star, Skulls also have dry black in the 5507 cut which is looser than the 5010, but still quite slim. Check out the Skull thread for pics of the 5507 black or go to the Fab Four online shop. The 5507 and 5010 come in a model with black warp and white weft so that they'll fade like a regular indigo jean. The ebony series has both black warp and black weft so there will be little/no contrast as they wear.

As others have stated/implied, the choice between the sammys and the pbjs is going to be all about the fit. For a hockey player, the pbjs are probably not going to work, but that's only my educated guess. In your case RBales, it sounds like you would want to go with the sammys and size down to fit. Read the "samurai s5000 owners" thread for more info. Search for it, I don't feel like linking it.

any "overdyed" black jeans would have the weft dyed black as well, samurai for sure do not have this, not sure about the PBJ's. Somets are not overdyed either, weft is grey like regular jeans

[truestorytravis]

my guess is that pbjs are not overdyed either bc BiG says they'll fade like indigo denim. makes sense, yes?

[poly800rock]

belive it when you see it..

[PG2G]

xx-005 seems a bit skinny to me, and I don't know if sizing up is really the answer.

[RBales]

hmm, it's sounding like the Samurai BK's are the way to go. The pictures of them in the s5000 thread are just beautiful. I'm worried that if I get these I won't be able to resist buying more. I'll just have to resist, I guess.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

get the s5000, xx005 is too tight for you.

The reason the S5000bk fades in a way similar to indigo is that they are rope dyed in a cerain way to leave a very large part of the thread white, more so than normal samurai indigo jeans which are all also rope dyed.

Just because a pair of black jeans have uncolored weft it doesn't mean that they'll fade like blue jeans. You need the color to be rubbed off of the colored warp threads to get a fade. For this, rope dyeing is essential.

I don't trust BIG 100% that the black xx005 will fade like indigo til I've seen a worn in pair, well of course it won't fade exactly like indigo since no other color does, and of course it will fade a little, like all colors do, but will it fade like the black Samurais? They probably will fade quite nicely, but as I said, I wouldn't take it for granted.

Also, all black jeans take longer to fade than indigo dyed jeans.

[Cameland]

hjj can you explain more about why rope dying is essential for black denim

[dizzhizz]

Another factor to consider is the actual weight on the BKs - it could be a good thing especially during a Chicago winter. My vote is for the Sammies all the way!

[viv1984viv]

I stand corrected, I thought they were indigo black over dye, because of the fades and because of how the faded "like indigo". Guess not.

[Zampáno]

It's funny that people say that the Sammies are the ones you should go for because the PBJs are too tight in the thighs because that's exactly the opposite impression I got from looking at pictures of people actually wearing the jeans and describing the fit in their respective threads. Also I was specifically warned from someone that has a pair that the Sammies are tighter in the thighs than other jeans.

Go read up on those threads, you'll see a lot of the people wearing them have nothing close to chicken legs and some of the fits are incredible. It was those pictures that sold me on them, specifically the PBJ.

Coincidentally, I have ordered/pre-ordered both of these jeans. I originally pre-ordered the PBJs but after seeing how the Sammies in black fade and the amount of people saying they were the perfect fit I had to get a pair. Just waiting on them being delivered now.

[PG2G]

Actually, on the BiG site (even tho they don't have measurements for the exact same sizes), it does look like the prewash upper thigh measurements of the XX-005 and the S5000 (looking at 5000VX measurements, since they are the same cut), are almost identical. So I guess you're right. Well... I guess it makes sense, it is Samurai's second slimmest cut