Yamane Jeans

[jubei]

I came across them in the Lightning Denim Guide and they look intriguing... and they seem to have a very reasonable price point ( the 1959S model starts at Y12600)

All I know about them is that they're produced in China ( lower overhead = lower price) and that they are the brainchild of the founder of Evisu jeans.

Anybody have more info on them? I know tg76 and hap have picked up some pairs...

[john11f]

made in china - poor quality

[jubei]

well, from what I could understand of the article in Lightning, Yamane established this brand in China to prove everyone who says "made in china - poor quality" wrong. That's why I'm curious about these guys.

[john11f]

evisu is not exactly branded as top quality denim nowadays, are they?

[haptronic]

having compared the higher end yamane. with the flat head which i was wearing at the time...the feel of the denim was comparable [as was the price] and the denim came from japan...

as to any quality question surely with jeans it is a matter of time before you can tell....how will the indigo fall? is the hardware up to scratch? will they dry crock? i mean i know it is the done thing on the board to say the deep colour of the japanese denim is fantastic...but really those extra dips that rub off on your couch etc...actually wont do anything for your fade....

johninger once pointed out that anything over 15 dips is just for bragging rights because the cotton can't take that much...hense the dry crocking...

the lower end price point yamane are incredible for the price...i got shorts so wont be working on a fade too much...but it will be interesting to see how tg's 1985 model comes along...whether the hardware survivies and how the indigo moves...they were $680 hk dollars ie cheap...nice cut..all the details are there...one wash... we will see in a few months....i guess...

but then again i am old enough remember when made in japan was thought to mean cheap junk. so....

[nairb49]

made in china - poor quality

Thats a bit much

[tg76]

yes everything made in china is low quality just as everything made in italy is beatifully cut and sophisticated ie versace.

this what they fit like - bad back photo they dont make my butt look pancaked but im in a rush and wanted to show and tell before im offline for a while, jetting home now. bye.

[jubei]

thanks for posting tg76... I'll be looking forward to updates later. I have to admit, I was really attracted to the version with the painted back pockets ( even though I don't think I would really wear them in real life)

Any idea what the weight is on the denim? Slubby? Soft or stiff?

[tangerine]

tg76 those boots are awesome! what are they?

I hope you have/had a good flight.

[chucklebean]

I love that fit. Why are the pockets so huge?

[ruprecht]

^^

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[vee_dub]

made in china - poor quality

Doesnt have to be always poor quality......they got quality control over there. BMW parts some of them are made in china..same as VW.

Cheer,

Dub.

[Backwasher]

Dude, just because something is made in China. It does NOT neccessarily mean the quality is crap (However this is largely the case because companies need low quality products in mass quantitites). You can get high quality products in China, but it's almost pointless as because of the logic. It's like going to..KFC to get a burger and then going to Mcdonalds to get chicken. And of course, cheap labour. What difference does it make if I import the mills/hardware/etc to China?The factory operators will look at you, "Now why in the hell would you want to do it here? Sure we can do it, but why..?" The factories are set up there so things can be quickly mass produced. I have a pair of Evisus from Hong Kong and a pair from Japan and they're both the same in quality.

Speaking of which, did you know most Japanese denim is made in the USA using Japanese cotton? Sometimes American cotton on American mills, but they call it japanese denim. Ok I digress but say I bring these mills to China and pay my workers a bit more.

And the bottom line is, it's freaking denim for crying outloud..not cars/space rocket/precise components. High quality denim doesn't need much for production.

Edit: And yes as someone said before, Japanese stuff used to = sheer junk.

I have various Japanese SLR cameras that are pretty much knock off German cameras. Yes these are older than you . Things change people.

[tweeds]

ringring has said several times that made in china denim, as well as turkey denim, can be of a very high grade--at least the equal of japanese denim in some cases. likewise some other guys on the board have checked out small runs from indian mills, and being kato-designed, have found that they are pretty much good stuff as well.

[Landy]

i saw the same article in the lighting guide and went to the store myself in hong kong. i thought the denim was of good quality, especially at that price point. the pair i tried on, did not fit like the ones tg is wearin. they were kinda loose. they had a similar cut to my 2000 evisus. pretty stiff and slubby. i think they'll wear in nicely. i didn't buy any while i was there since i already have some evisus and nudies waiting to be worn in. i don't need anymore in the queue.

and it is a broad statement to say soemthing made in china is of poor quality. china is rapidly catching up in terms of denim production. the yamane jeans were definitely of good quality.

[jubei]

^thanks for your response... do you live in the area or are you on vacation?

[tg76]

tg76 those boots are awesome! what are they?

I hope you have/had a good flight.

those boots are http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/showpost.php?p=169225&postcount=2679

flight was fantastic sitting for 14 hours has done wonders for the seat in my yamane's

jubei i think the denim is 10oz - light and comfy anyway. it has vertical syrations[sp], not slubby, the one wash finish has left lovelly deep blues contrasted with luminous moments. the bits that dont get hit in the wash are inky blue black.

landy the fulla in the shop was wearing them baggy as is the girl sporting them in lightning, cute on her, i dont do cute

yeah

[Landy]

^thanks for your response... do you live in the area or are you on vacation?

i used to live in HK in the mid 90's. i try to go back at least once a year. i was there for about 6 months but now i'm back in america. i figure whenever i go back, i'll scoop up a pair of jeans from there.

[pacioli]

From today's Fibre2Fashion, Fashion in Japan desk:

"The keyword many feel is going to be significant this fall is “Darkâ€. Japanese manufacturers such as Kaihara and Kurabo are both working at reviving Japan denim as the best answer to the new trend.

Still, it cannot be ignored that the Chinese factories are getting better and better in quality that the time may come when Japan denim will not be so precious.

With the rise and fall of premium denim, the manufactures in Japan had suffered. But retailers are not so scared as the manufacturers."

[cultpop 0217]

yes everything made in china is low quality just as everything made in italy is beatifully cut and sophisticated ie versace.

this what they fit like - bad back photo they dont make my butt look pancaked but im in a rush and wanted to show and tell before im offline for a while, jetting home now. bye.

those look very rockabilly. i like.

[kiya]

whow..

the Yamane's i bought from he Evisu store in Hong Kong Central about three years ago cost me about 300 USD. they are of the best quality i've ever seen on ANY denim, complete with hidden rivets in the rear pockets..

[__3xL]

Tg76 got a big ole booty ....

Wasn't lookin - just noticed it .... :-|

[ringring]

ringring has said several times that made in china denim, as well as turkey denim, can be of a very high grade--at least the equal of japanese denim in some cases. likewise some other guys on the board have checked out small runs from indian mills, and being kato-designed, have found that they are pretty much good stuff as well.

Yes, Chinese denim (Turkish, Greek, Spanish, Indian etc - all can produce very high quality) can be very good. I think the Yamane jeans are a good illustration and a fantastic marketing opportunity for Yamane to add to his jeans legend.

For example, the dry/one wash 'Chinese' Yamane's at approx US$100 compare extremely well to the Japanese denim versions at approx US$280. In fact, my guess is that most people wouldn't be able to tell the country of origin of the respective denims unless they had been prior informed.

Obviously, as mentioned previously, time will tell if they wear as well as the Japanese denims. I'm optimistic.

[jubei]

a legend returns! w00t!

[ringring]

LOL, thanks Jubei.

Getting back to Yamane, apart from the plain, dry chinese selvedge jeans, which are excellent value - the Yamane Delux silk/cotton jeans are very nice indeed.

Reminded me of the silk/cotton and hemp/cotton Litl Betr jeans at Rogan. Although the price tag, like the LBs is hefty (around US$ 760).

[tweeds]

the whole aesthetic of Yamane jeans however seems to be a bit neo-Evisu...the printed ads really irritate me.

but i'd be interested in actually taking a look at some of the denim on their jeans.

[ringring]

the whole aesthetic of Yamane jeans however seems to be a bit neo-Evisu...the printed ads really irritate me.

but i'd be interested in actually taking a look at some of the denim on their jeans.

..kind of to be expected really. Just as being able to see the Rogan in Edun, PDC in Earnest Sewn etc...brands that share some geneology.

The denim is pretty good. There's a bit of spin of the origins of the Chinese denim, but it looks very nice stuff. The cheaper Japanese denim is basically Pure Blue fabric - excellent.

The cuts are basically traditional '47 & '55 carrot shaped legs. In cinch back or 'clean' 5 pocket styles. Peek-a-boo red back pock label gimmick (not the only brand to use that). Sizes start at 32" waist/33 inseam, which seems a little large for a brand that will be selling a lot to the Asian market.

I hope it works out well for Yamane. He's done a lot for denim.

[tweeds]

true...

and yes yamane certainly has done much. when i saw the photo of that early Evisu jacket repro in Paul T's book i nearly kowtowed to it. and to think that today jacket repros are a dime a dozen.

[Chicken]

Okay. So I needed to procrastinate -- I finally got around to translating some more pages from Lightning Denim Style Book 2.

I must preface this by noting that the original writer loosely wrote "made in China" when the Yamane Jeans are made, more specifically, in Hong Kong. The following exerpt also deals more with the stereotype of jeans made in China, rather than discussing the specifics of the products. I'll try to get to the product descriptions in the near future, but it's a bit too much for me right now.

EDIT: Yamane Jeans are aparently made in mainland China, but their operation is run from Hong Kong. Thanks RingRing.

Ni ho ma from jeans made in China.

If you want to check out the manufacturing process of jeans, you should go to Okayama. Because Okayama is one of the world leaders of premium denim. But recently, we heard a rumor China is producing some quality denim. So we decided to send in a research team immediately. What are the similarities and differences between Japan and China?

When you hear "Chinese denim," what would you think about? Mass production? Assembly-line system? Cheap? Well, compared to Japanese denim which is highly regarded and sought after around the world. "Made in Japan" has become a premium. So where does Chinese denim stand?

Actually, there are far more Chinese denim than Japanese denim in terms of production volume. There are more people and more land. Naturally, denim factories are larger and so are production volumes. And in order to handle huge number of orders, they need to improve their skills and facilities.

Today, there are numbers of Chinese people who are realizing this. They are in the process of polishing up their techniques. And, what I've seen with my own eyes are Chinese made "Yama-chan Jeans." If you didn't look at the tag, you probably wouldn't guess it was made in China.

Have they come this far?

Perhaps we've been underestimating Chinese denim with thoughts like, "I thought most jeans were made in Japan."

Rumor 1

"They can't produce selvage denim in China"

"Since they don't have old-school shuttle looms in China, no matter how many denim they produce none of them are selvaged. Maybe it will be possible if they're able to import machines and artisans from Japan..."

There are rumors like this floating around. Thus, we asked a mysterious Asian man, Mr. Chen, who's an expert in Chinese denim.

"Chinese denim unbelievable. We go see Yama-chan Jeans."

We followed him across the border as he said, all the way to one Chinese denim factory. We first seeked out to resolve the selvage denim rumor...

We discovered a pile of selvage denim inside the factory's giant warehouse.

Mr. Chen reported, "These made in China."

Slubby denim that looked to weigh around 14oz were also made in China.

Rumor 2

"Mass Production is what they're about. You can't expect craftsmanship."

Still not recovered from the shock of learning they made selvage denim with old-school shuttle looms, we moved on to rumor number two. In big factories with large number of workers, a typical Japanese stereotype would be to think that their emphasis is on quantity and not quality. So as we looked inside this large factory, there were numbers of people who are completely absorbed in their specialized tasks they repeated over and over. A person attaching pockets kept on attaching pockets and a person punching rivets kept on punching rivets. Was the rumor true?

Their attention to craftsmanship could be understood once you observed the entire facility, rather than inspecting individual workers. For example, a person in charge of hemming was using a sewing machine none other than a genuine Union Special.

The final touch was applied by people with graceful ironing techniques. Years ago, there used to be numbers of people like this at Japanese laundromats. This factory was staffed with numbers of them.

Rumor 3

"Repetitious procedure is what they're good at. Attention to detail is weak."

When you're talking about mass produced items, you can make do with decent facilities and diligent workers. But when you demand more sophisticated art and design sensibilities, are there people who are as skilled as the Japanese people? Is it possible they can't handle complex procedures involving creativity at Chinese factories, especially from Japanese people's point of view? Inside this factory, there were numbers of prototypes and more higher end jeans involving complex sewing.

Cutting the denim fabric cannot be automated by machines and it definitely involves skills. Assembling various parts of the jeans: side seam, inseam, waist band, belt loops... all the workers involved are technicians.

Because there's a lot of trial and error involved when creating prototypes, it requires skills and ideas.

The designer for Yama-chan Jeans is highly demanding. Because of this, the jeans have details that are very involved. There is no way you can produce these jeans with decent machineries alone.

[Landy]

thanks for the translation chicken. very interesting indeed.