raw denim becoming mainstream

[timmy32]

who cares if its main stream, i just wear whatever i feal like when i wake up, my clothes express my mood so sometimes i wear mainstream and sometimes i rock the raw, unwashed denim, who gives a shit what others wear or think.

[damnIam]

If I was a designer of denim and I knew I could sell a customer 3 or 4 pairs of 3/4 the way destroyed jeans a year to a customer because they fall apart after about that time I would not encourage the desire of the consumer for raw denim for obvious reasons. True individualist of fashion don't strictly follow what designers encourage but a fair many people just buy what they are "Spoon Fed".

[cheapmuthafukr]

i dont think this trend will change anyone. they will wash thier jeans the same. people will get over it when the next thing comes around. quality wont come into the picture for most people.

fuck.... i dont know... since we like to think of ourselves as taste makers, whats next?

[homi29]

It's true that the raw look is catching on in the mainstream. But I'm observing that the mass retailers' customers are buying them because they like the dark, clean look. They're looking to RETAIN this color. They are not buying the jeans to wear them for months without wash in hopes of getting a distressed look. For them, the distressed look is exactly what they don't want on this pair of "raw" jeans.

As a result, many of these jeans are treated with a mix of resin that tries to retain the color even after many washes.

Contrast that to one school of SF thought, which is to enjoy the dark, raw, stiff denim as much as possible, but to eventually get an awesome fade and maybe a couple of knee and wallet holes.

For many cutting edge "mainstream" consumers buying into the raw look, our naturally-distressed-jeans look has gone out along with the factory-distressed-jeans look (of course to make a come back very shortly--which may be either a very good or very bad thing, depending on your thinking).

this was exactly my thinking

i know ive seen it among my friends, hypebeasts, and the general public as well

[cheapmuthafukr]

id knid of like to see raw selvage become the standard. if you ramp up production of the denim the cost should drop to a point where it would be possable to make 50$ quality selvage jeans, and levis could lead the way with a return to the 501 of old(<---this is for you, Levis execs and researchers reading the board),leg twist and everything. china could help with this.

[Yet Fung]

I've found that a lot of people like to keep jeans in the condition that they were bought. Whether it be raw unwashed, or washed and distressed, I think the average consumer is more concerned about preserving his/her investment. It's counterintuitive to pay $300 to wreck the fuck out of your jeans by not caring about what happens to them on a daily basis, and on top of that, neglecting to wash them. On the same token, there's also a lot of people who get easily frustrated by the lack of progress they make on breaking-in raw jeans because if they spent $300, they expect results right away, even though they still baby them. Let's face it, not many people are willing to pay the money for the privilege of doing the work. In my opinion, it's their loss, my gain.

[pacioli]

something else I've observed by talking to women about jeans is that they are often bothered by the fact that their denim bleed in the wash. They see this as a sign of poor quality. "Why do my $150 Seven jeans still bleed?" Given how much raw denim bleeds I don't see how truly raw denim will catch on en masse, unless they join the SF subculture.

The compromise to serve this market will be rinsed (one wash) jeans treated to minimize indigo loss.

[bluespring]

what comes around, goes around

[will_i_am]

imagine buying selvage shrink to fits at kohls/sears for 30 bucks.

i loooove it.

[senor_fusion]

the cheaper raw denim gets, the more you can buy, therefore leading to a movement of paying your hardworking lawn laborers in pairs of jeans.

after wearing them for a couple of months, you can take them right back and bribe them off with some homestyle meals. they won't even know what hit em.

[BC3]

id knid of like to see raw selvage become the standard. if you ramp up production of the denim the cost should drop to a point where it would be possable to make 50$ quality selvage jeans, and levis could lead the way with a return to the 501 of old(<---this is for you, Levis execs and researchers reading the board),leg twist and everything. china could help with this.

yes, leg twist is good

[janricardo]

are the japanese selvage denim RAW? not the 'morrison' ones but the straight leg "GOUGH" ones.

[dancancer]

i guess being superfuturians, we have an obligation to move on to bigger and better things.

how do paper jeans sound?

and no jeans at all for the ladies.

TYVEK JEANS!

I dont mind the whole raw denim mainstream....

I do infact enjoy laughing at the hipsters in school washing their NEW raw jeans and watching them fade like their old jeans did.

[nappyhead jenkins]

around this time a year ago give or take a month nudies were considered a hot brand on these boards

[adsurgo]

i dont care about this stuff too much but i thought it was weird walking into neimans the other day and seeing nudies.

[Louis]

really. who cares. if you like raw denim, then wear it. why does it matter, honestly.

[sbbbjm]

apc's have been in GQ and Details spreads for at least the last two years . . . just thought i'd throw that out there.

[cultpop 0217]

what goes around comes around. jean trends cycle through every shade of denim about every 5-7 years. and it seems to be recycling faster and faster. but dark denim has been the "thang" before and washes got lighter and more extreme and then more subtle and less flash and darker and ... it will be on to the next thing. same with the cut, hems get wider and wider and then all of sudden they are getting smaller and straighter then tapered and then 6 inch hems.

fashion eats itself.

over and over.

especially for denim.

[sneakeraddict]

those Gap jeans actually dont look too bad..

my only objection is they go up to 46 waist, yet they dont do 36 leg?? !!!

So Gap are saying you can be a complete lard-arse and buy good jeans, but you can't be over 6 foot and buy their good jeans? What the fuck's that about ?

http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=16127&pid=408895

[Double D]

It was about 2 years ago that I first saw dark denim mentioned as making a comeback in Arena magazine, with some nice photoshoots to go with. Since then I've been swaying towards the dark end of the denim spectrum.

Most high street dark denim is still pretty crap though, but I noticed Topman first introduced a black straight leg selvedge, and have now introduced another (I haven't yet seen it in the flesh) black straight leg selvedge for a whopping £60 price tag.

[swisloc]

why do we care?? despite what we may think; despite how obscure and difficult-to-get your pants are, they are still pants and still modelled after fits that have been around for decades. fashion is recycled with minor changes, this is the way it works. There are a finite amount of things you can do with denim pants, and they've all been popular at one point or another. Wear what you like and what looks good for YOU. Everybody is influenced, how is being influenced to buy something by a magazine, versus by a "trendsetting" message board any different??

Unless you're literally making your own clothes, exclusivity is a myth.

[BigTime]

yep.

take a look at the GQ forums. run a search for raw denim and you get 500 results. granted most people are into Nudie and such.. but still.

I find that Nudie being so much more main stream than other selvadge raw brands, that not only is it so much more popular / common, but it is a "gate way" denim to more unique stuff.

I have had selvadge jeans for years, but my first pair of raw were nudie, but now i have a lot more of the even less main stream stuff.

[minimal]

The dark aesthetic of raw denim seems to come in and out of style every 4-5 years. I remember in 2000-2001 when Japanese brands like Edwin started selling raw stiff denim in North America, and in tandem the Gap was selling dark denim as well. I think the dark aesthetic always come in and out, what we choose to do with it, over the past couple years has evolved into a group movement.

While I always credited nudie bringing this to the masses, I have in the past (pre-nudie) bought and worn raw denim for extended periods to prolong the fading process and increase wear. I think it was a much less discussed personal thing pre-nudie.

Oh, and those Gap selvage ones are a one wash and they give you a head start on honeycombs which was the reason I didn't buy them on sale two weeks ago for 60 bucks.

[giantsdrink]

why do we care?? despite what we may think; despite how obscure and difficult-to-get your pants are, they are still pants and still modelled after fits that have been around for decades. fashion is recycled with minor changes, this is the way it works. There are a finite amount of things you can do with denim pants, and they've all been popular at one point or another. Wear what you like and what looks good for YOU. Everybody is influenced, how is being influenced to buy something by a magazine, versus by a "trendsetting" message board any different??

Unless you're literally making your own clothes, exclusivity is a myth.

How does a style influence (magazine, message board, friend, etc...) affect the exclusivity of the clothes you wear? Even if you buy denim that is sought after here, I'd bet its vastly more exclusive than most anything else you will see being worn by the general population.

There's no way that exclusivity is a myth. If we were to go by your definition, even making your own clothing isn't exclusive, because your garments will probably end up looking like something that someone somewhere has made before.

[swisloc]

How does a style influence (magazine, message board, friend, etc...) affect the exclusivity of the clothes you wear? Even if you buy denim that is sought after here, I'd bet its vastly more exclusive than most anything else you will see being worn by the general population.

There's no way that exclusivity is a myth. If we were to go by your definition, even making your own clothing isn't exclusive, because your garments will probably end up looking like something that someone somewhere has made before.

of course it CAN be more exclusive than buying "mainstream" washed denim. perhaps i should have said that the VALUE of exclusivity is a myth. it doesn't really matter in terms of this discussion as the thread was posed assuming that exclusivity of raw denim implied originality/exclusivity above the mainstream that GQ was threatening by coopting the style. either way, assuming something is better or worse based soley on how many people are wearing it is ridiculous.

If you made your own clothes you may or may not produce something similar established patterns; i'm doubt there is any way of determining that. however, i KNOW (and so does everyone who reads this message board) that nearly every brand discussed at length is modeled after decades old patterns...half the posts on here are a variation of "how does 'jean x' compare to levi's 1947 fit?"

[coleslawyum]

Raw Denim vs. Washed. Raw and washed denim has flip flopped their popularity in the last 20 years. Although raw has never gotten as popular as washed, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most people hate the indigo stains and the shrinkage issues. All that means is that every clothing company will offer a pair of raw selvedged jeans. But that doesn't mean that it will automatically sell well. I still would get a pair from a Japanese company, RRL etc, before I cop one from Quicksilver. Maybe they will lower the price…

[coalessence]

i would say its becoming pretty mainstream, when a kid from suburban st.louis asked me about my "dark jeans" and asked if i washed them or not

he obviously didn't know much about denim, but he knew the basis behind raw denim and achieving a distressed look by wearing them in yourself

[Dick Danger]

What stream was it 50 years ago?

[brandon0809b]

it may get a little mainstrean like everything else underground. Companies market and exploit subcultures Look at how being a sneakerhead blew up since 1999. but serious connoisseures will always stand out looking for discontinued or heavy ounced selvedge vintage loomed jeans that you just wont find by the big retailers. The differrence will be in the wear as well as the brand mainstream or not. Jeans are a staple and people will constantly wear em as their styles go in or out. So even if raw goes mainstream, selvage has to catch up, different weaves have to as well, so hardcore fanatics will discern themselves from the rest.

[wild_whiskey]

I don't know if it goes as far as fashion designers et al. exploiting the trends of us incredibly stylish trendsetters (rolling eyes).

Tastes change. Dark, undistressed denim has gone in, it will take awhile for it to go out.