My name is Electrum and I used to like LVC but now I don't really like it anymore...

[sayocean]

did you forget to read the part where i said "no hate" ? I think its time for you to move on regardless. I wish I had the time to waste and figure out the percentage of your 241 posts that are strictly bitching about the LVC. And how does this make sense? You claimed you blew 1K on LVCs yet LUCKILY for you, "unlike many on this board i've never had problems with fitting LVC's".. So did you stupidly pay 1K for your last pair, the one pair out of all your LVCs that had a problem with fitting?

[electrum]

Look folks I did'nt intend to create a 'bitchfest' w/ my long-winded semi-facetious post -- been away from lvc and sufu for some time after getting screwed w/ the s/s 2010 201 -- just wanted to return in true form. As for you sayocean, I did read where you said "no hate" , so why are you still trying to agitate me with your bs nonsense? shut the f##k up already .... jeez I mean what is your problem?? Anyway, fwiw update w/comments and pics of those 201s soon....its been a long yesterday w/ world markets in such a funk and today doesn't look to be much more promising....my eyes are bleeding. Later....

[sayocean]

lolfest, U MAD?

[roy6]

. .

[dr.house]

Someone needs to start a new thread: LVC: A Buyer Beware Guide for Newbies.

Topics could include: denim that never shrink-to-fit according to LVC estimates and sometimes actually gain a size or two after several washes; Paint that washes off of suspender buttons after first rinse, full frontal leg seam twist, crotch blowouts and other quality problems; Models that are always different from one season to the nxt, but that are never true to the original i.e. '47; Tag sizes that never match the true measurements and vary by as much as 3-4 inches for the same model year after year; What constitutes "quality" denim to justify a $200-$350 price tag; Models that transform from good looking raw hefty denim into flimsy dish towels after one rinse; Denim weight arbitrarily listed as 9, 10, 10.5, 11, 12, 12.5, 14 or 14.5 oz. at any given time by any given vendor for the same model when actual weight is unknown; Tips on how to avoid starting with a $1000 budget then ending with a loss of $600-$800, before ending up with maybe 1-2 average pair of LVC that you can actually wear after 3-4 yrs of trial and error.

I think such a thread would be a very useful guide for helping newbies navigate through so much LVC bs thereby minimizing significant financial loss. However, such a thread would likely be impossible since there are so many problems encountered in addition to the few listed above when buying LVC jeans.

Thoughts?

1) Fading paint on the suspender buttons sounds vintage-like to me.

2) Crotch blowouts are always a problem with too tight jeans and not a special LVC problem.

3) Leg twist is a mistake? Dude...:eek:

4 )I agree, the sizings on LVC's are often weird, best is: read this thread carefully. Ask Paul T. or other cracks. You'll find your size! I was helped several times and my LVC's fit perfect.

5) I couldn't admit serious quality problems on my LVC stuff, on the contrary, it's all well finished.

6) I agree, change in cuts and measurements is indeed a problem.

7) You'll find the correct size in the LVC catalogues and books...or see No.4 for further help.

8) I agree with beautiful_freak, there are a lot of other denim brands if you're unsatisfied with LVC.

[Paul T]

Electrum; I feel your pain, fitting these jeans can be a nightmare and there's not enough info on sizing . We will have to differ on the quality of the denim, tho, which I think is great, and I would humbly point out that again & again I have posted on this thread to buy your actual waist size, and not size up with the 201.

[electrum]

Electrum; I feel your pain, fitting these jeans can be a nightmare and there's not enough info on sizing . We will have to differ on the quality of the denim, tho, which I think is great, and I would humbly point out that again & again I have posted on this thread to buy your actual waist size, and not size up with the 201.

Thanks for the level-headed response to my post Paul.

I know that you've said repeatedly that actual measured waist size raw is recommended for the 201. However, like I've said repeatedly, I did get them raw in my actual waist measurement of 31. Yet after 4 washes the jeans ended up measuring size 32 waist or one inch larger and that's what has me baffled. In short, instead of stf they expanded by one inch in the waist. What's even stranger is that they did have some marginal W&L shrinkage after ist hot soak, but it was after the subsequent 3 hot machine washes that they expanded to 32W. Oh, and just for the record they did shrink enough in front and back rise after 4th wash for a manageable fit, that along with tightening of the cinch they are wearable but would've been so much better if they didn't expand in waist.

Anyway, can you explain why "stf" denim would expand one inch after wash and is it something that is common with the 201? Many thanks...

[electrum]

There's one thing strange about this board, every time either I or someone else brings up any of LVC's many costly shortcomings and redundant peculiarities, there's always a handful of posters who crawl out of the woodwork then start a shit hemorrhage of personal attacks, twisted facts, blaming the buyer, get super defensive and paranoid. What's up with that, I mean isn;t the whole point of having this blog to share both good and bad info about jeans? Reasonable debate is much more constructive than coercive drivel plus it keeps the board clean. Just something to think about.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

There's one thing strange about this board, every time either I or someone else brings up any of LVC's many costly shortcomings and redundant peculiarities, there's always a handful of posters who crawl out of the woodwork then start a shit hemorrhage of personal attacks, twisted facts, blaming the buyer, get super defensive and paranoid. What's up with that, I mean isn;t the whole point of having this blog to share both good and bad info about jeans? Reasonable debate is much more constructive than coercive drivel plus it keeps the board clean. Just something to think about.

I'm not a big fan of LVC too and that's why I told you, go look into other brands

[dr.house]

I'm not a big fan of LVC too and that's why I told you, go look into other brands

I am a big fan of LVC and I agree, go look into other brands.

[electrum]

I'm not a big fan of LVC too and that's why I told you, go look into other brands

Although I wouldn't consider myself an LVC fan, I do like Levi's and wouldn't even think of buying other brands even though I've tried others. In spite of all their frustrating problems and costly surprises Levi's LVC are the best vintage knockoffs in that they are the most interesting vintage designs bar none plus women seem to love them -- real babe magnets ; ) Based on what I've seen, all vintage repro/inspired garments (and I've tried severl incl BR,SC,Post O'...) not just LVC, exploit the bygone era that they are suppose to reflect in return for high profit margins by selling obviously low cost mass produced products at the expense of their customers. With $300 jeans, $200+ shirts and $100 T-shirts even @ discount clearance prices they're still making huge profits -- someone is laughing all the way to the bank, what a shame. Although there might be some quality LVC material that justifies the price, the stuff I've encountered (which is relatively limited) with the exception of the '37 555, just isn't worth anywhere close to the high cost imo...

[runormal]

With $300 jeans, $200+ shirts and $100 T-shirts even @ discount clearance prices they're still making huge profits -- someone is laughing all the way to the bank, what a shame.

I think someone brought up a while ago that someone from LVC or Levis had claimed that LVC was a loss profit item for them - and is that still true if so? I don't know enough about manufacturing denim but with these prices that does raise an eyebrow.

I don't know if the same is true in all retail stores but the mark-up on clothes can easily be 100%(or more),, so the shirt we buy for $100 the retailer bought for $50 from LVC and so on. Of course other forgotten costs like the next day day shipping that many distributors do are added into the end retail cost as well and keeping the lights on and the bills paid - all those "other" costs need to get made too, and I wonder how much of that is also in the end price.

I've mentioned before that my father worked for Levi's here in San Francisco for 27 years and this weekend he reminded me that he still has an employee discount code that Levi's sends him at the end of each season - which can be combined with other sales - and he has gotten very used to paying $12 for brand new jeans. Sure they are no LVC, but for 12 bucks some standard issue levi's are a great deal imo, and I was trying to imagine justifying my recent LVC purchases to a guy like my father.

Not sure what the point was to either of these other than electrums post got me thinking about what I am willing to/do pay for stuff like LVC... just my 0.02cents I guess.

[electrum]

Following link is an ebay listing for a 30yard x 32.25 roll of Cone Mills raw shuttle loom redline for $300 or best offer..and hey wadaya know it even lists the weight 12.25 oz. , something that LVC likes to keep secret. With LS&Co.s huge buying power I bet they pay much less than what this distributor is offering theirs for. Maybe someone who knows can calculate how many $300 jeans can be manufactured with 30yards? I see bulk shuttle loom selvage denim offered on ebay all the time, Cone, Japanese, Chinese...it's not like it's some small batch hand crafted rarity like most vintage marketing material implies -- it's pretty common inexpensive stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/30-YARDS-SELVAGE-RAW-CONE-MILLS-DENIM-FABRIC-SELVEDGE-/390182739821?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Fabric&hash=item5ad8b41f6d

[sayocean]

There's one thing strange about this board, every time either I or someone else brings up any of LVC's many costly shortcomings and redundant peculiarities, there's always a handful of posters who crawl out of the woodwork then start a shit hemorrhage of personal attacks, twisted facts, blaming the buyer, get super defensive and paranoid. What's up with that, I mean isn;t the whole point of having this blog to share both good and bad info about jeans? Reasonable debate is much more constructive than coercive drivel plus it keeps the board clean. Just something to think about.

listen dude, we heard you the first 50 times. And the only one who got defensive was you. I do agree with you that this is a forum and your concerns and gripes were valid - the FIRST time. After a minute, it becomes like a joke, beating a dead horse.. Sucks that you've had some not so pleasant experiences but I guess thats the nature of the game. I'm pretty sure cowboys didn't give two shits about their 201s stretching an inch. They most likely just stfu and wore them to death. I'm done. My apologies to you electrum for being that guy.

[electrum]

listen dude, we heard you the first 50 times. And the only one who got defensive was you. I do agree with you that this is a forum and your concerns and gripes were valid - the FIRST time. After a minute, it becomes like a joke, beating a dead horse.. Sucks that you've had some not so pleasant experiences but I guess thats the nature of the game. I'm pretty sure cowboys didn't give two shits about their 201s stretching an inch. They most likely just stfu and wore them to death. I'm done. My apologies to you electrum for being that guy.

I've been on this board for about 3yrs, during that time at least 90% of the posts I've read are about sizing. I don't care about sizing, but I know that some people might benefit from discussing that topic so I'm not going to jump down their throats telling them that they're a "joke" , to "stop beating a dead horse" or that they need to move on. The way I see it dude, everyone here has the right to talk about whatever they want as often as they want as long as they stay on topic and they don't insult someone. On the other hand, no one has the right to arbitrarily set limits or decide when or what can or cannot be discussed here if the subject is relevant to LVC. Now that everyone knows where we're both coming from let's both stop beating this dead horse and move on with talking about LVC. Cool?

[electrum]

What's the general opinion on the changes to LVC at this point? Does it seem like anythings really changed from a customer's perspective?

You know what I think. However my view is based on my experience with the s/s2010 201...the one with the Houdini denim that instead of shrink-to-fit expanded by one inch subsequently losing a couple oz.'s in weight, plus losing most of its colour and the paint coming off the buttons all after a few washes w/out even wearing them. It's the worst pair of LVC I've had and I've had a few real bad ones. If this is what the new "XX Group" is pushing off as new and improved then it's a big step backwards for the brand. I;ve never been so pissed off...there's nothing worse than being so flagrantly robbed of $220 -- I consider it criminal fraud.

[electrum]

With $100 knit t-shirts, $200-$350 jeans and $200+ shirts, well, if LVC products were true vintage reproductions then yeah they'd be worth the high premium. However, when you get a pair of vintage repro jeans and find cheap tin capped grommet buttons with fake copper glitter paint that comes off after the first wash, poly core thread, stamped metal cinch buckles that don't work, unknown denim weight, denim that varies for the same model from one purchase to the nxt, rivets that pop off, leather patches that shrivel like a prune after one soak and numerous other quality problems then you have to ask yourself if they are worth the high price. I and others here have brought up these problems and they're usually written off as simple mistakes that LVC is working on fixing. I think that's total bs. Let's face it, LS&Co. has no intention of ever producing an exact replica vintage jean (which is not difficult to do) because if they did they'd cut into their profit margin. Levi's is producing the lowest possible cost product and selling it for the highest possible price. It makes good business sense, why charge $200-$350 for a higher cost/quality authentic repro when they can easily get by with charging the same price for a much lower cost/quality knock-off knowing that consumers will still buy it anyway? That's the way it is with all "vintage" repro clothing, some say that made in Japan is better, but they;re even worse than LVC at sticking it to their customers with over priced low quality products.

[roy6]

. . . .

[dr.house]

I own 4 LVC items (44, 47, 54 and a 40's tee) and all items are made of a fine quality and worth their price. I like the idea of LVC and I like the feeling of wearing an original reproduction and, last not least, my LVC's fits really cool (we're talking about clothing guys )

LVC is still something special and stays different from the regular Levis shit. And it's still not overpriced (like Nudie e.g.) imo.

Japanese goods are another league qualitywise, even if the cotton thread of my (nevertheless fantastic) Denimes is a joke qualitywise. It'll break if you look evil on it. The idea of using linen thread sounds pretty cool.

[Guest Selvage Seb.]

I own 4 LVC items (44, 47, 54 and a 40's tee) and all items are made of a fine quality and worth their price. I like the idea of LVC and I like the feeling of wearing an original reproduction and, last not least, my LVC's fits really cool (we're talking about clothing guys )

LVC is still something special and stays different from the regular Levis shit. And it's still not overpriced (like Nudie e.g.) imo.

Japanese goods are another league qualitywise, even if the cotton thread of my (nevertheless fantastic) Denimes is a joke qualitywise. It'll break if you look evil on it. The idea of using linen thread sounds pretty cool.

Nudie might be overpriced in oversea countrys, in Europe it's definately not..

their dry selvage(150Euro) is actually one of the cheapest on the market here, only Pace is slightly cheaper..

[electrum]

After getting totally hosed with the s/s2010 201, I looked into what it will cost to have a tailor custom make a pair of 201s using my worthless LVC 201s as a pattern. The raw selvage denim will cost me anywhere from $3 to $10 per yard based on weight and prices I've seen on ebay and web. I'll have a number of weights to choose from in raw vintage shuttle loom redline, white or blueline selvage material from Cone Mills, Chinese and Japanese manufacturers (my choice) or hold out for original deadstock (real vintage) raw denim for pennies on the dollar that shows up on ebay from time to time. I can get the low quality tin buttons and pressed metal bucles like LVC uses for pennies per dozen from countless sources on the web, but will instead have a friend who's a tool and die expert make authentic (complete w/ Levi's logo) steel, iron, brass or copper (my choice) grommet donut buttons (with baked enamel paint finish), rivets and buckle at no cost. I'll either reuse the linen patch from my LVC 201s or have a buddy of mine easily draw up and silkscreen one with full detail using archive web fotos of original 201 patch as guide/template, as he tells me, at his print shop at no cost. My tailor says he will use the best linen thread (my choice of any colour combo) and piece it all together for $30. So for around $40 to $60 (depending on how much the denim ends up costing) I'll have an authentic pair of "vintage Levi's" made with the finest materials and craftsmanship for around $200 LESS than what a pair of low quality watered down LVC vintage knockoffs will cost me.

[rnrswitch]

After getting totally hosed with the s/s2010 201, I looked into what it will cost to have a tailor custom make a pair of 201s using my worthless LVC 201s as a pattern. The raw selvage denim will cost me anywhere from $3 to $10 per yard based on weight and prices I've seen on ebay and web. I'll have a number of weights to choose from in raw vintage shuttle loom redline, white or blueline selvage material from Cone Mills, Chinese and Japanese manufacturers (my choice) or hold out for original deadstock (real vintage) raw denim for pennies on the dollar that shows up on ebay from time to time. I can get the low quality tin buttons and pressed metal bucles like LVC uses for pennies per dozen from countless sources on the web, but will instead have a friend who's a tool and die expert make authentic (complete w/ Levi's logo) steel, iron, brass or copper (my choice) grommet donut buttons (with baked enamel paint finish), rivets and buckle at no cost. I'll either reuse the linen patch from my LVC 201s or have a buddy of mine easily draw up and silkscreen one with full detail using archive web fotos of original 201 patch as guide/template, as he tells me, at his print shop at no cost. My tailor says he will use the best linen thread (my choice of any colour combo) and piece it all together for $30. So for around $40 to $60 (depending on how much the denim ends up costing) I'll have an authentic pair of "vintage Levi's" made with the finest materials and craftsmanship for around $200 LESS than what a pair of low quality watered down LVC vintage knockoffs will cost me.

You gotta be kidding right? Are you blowing your tailor to get that kind of deal? With all these connections, if I was you, I would have been in the jeans manufacturing business a long time ago.

[electrum]

who wants a size 36 55 501? just soaked mine and fucking still is too big! lemme know just tried on after soaking thats it pm me

Hey no problem, just boil them for a few days in a caldron of extremely hot water. If that doesn't work, hell, just sell them for a 80% loss then dish out another $200-$300 on a different model. Try the '47. My understanding from industry insiders is that LVC got the '47 right for this season so you shoudn't have any problems with them cuz there the real deal this time.. If the '47 has problems you can sell them at a loss too then try another model for $200-$300, there's so many to choose from you'll eventually find at least one that works out, just keep tryin' but you better hurry cuz prices are going up soon. Dude I don't see why you're making such a big deal about the whole thing, it's just a lot of money and blue jeans we're talkin' about here so just chill.

[almostnice]

slept badly last night ,electrum?

[roy6]

. . .

[electrum]

You gotta be kidding right? Are you blowing your tailor to get that kind of deal? With all these connections, if I was you, I would have been in the jeans manufacturing business a long time ago.

No.

Don't take my word for it though, look for yourself. Anyone can put together a pair of quality vintage jeans. The materials are easy to find, readily available from numerous sources and are very inexpensive. If you have the material and a pattern any tailor will sew it together for a reasonable price. Having a pattern is the key and my tailor will disassemble my dish towel LVC 201s and use that as his pattern. Otherwise he would have to measure and cut a pattern to my specs which is where much higher costs would have to be factored in. Like I said look for yourself, having a vintage repro made using quality material ain't all that dificult.

[Paul T]

Does he have a flat-bed chainstitch machine and 43200G for the hems? If he doesn't have the double needle machine, that's fine, it will add a more agricultural touch.

If so, and it goes well, please give us his details!

[almostnice]

Does he have a flat-bed chainstitch machine and 43200G for the hems? If he doesn't have the double needle machine, that's fine, it will add a more agricultural touch.

If so, and it goes well, please give us his details!

eagerly awaiting a 201 with Knappave sewingdetails.

[rnrswitch]

No.

Don't take my word for it though, look for yourself. Anyone can put together a pair of quality vintage jeans. The materials are easy to find, readily available from numerous sources and are very inexpensive. If you have the material and a pattern any tailor will sew it together for a reasonable price. Having a pattern is the key and my tailor will disassemble my dish towel LVC 201s and use that as his pattern. Otherwise he would have to measure and cut a pattern to my specs which is where much higher costs would have to be factored in. Like I said look for yourself, having a vintage repro made using quality material ain't all that dificult.

I know it doesn't cost much to produce them, but most people don't have a chainstitch for the hems, the double needle for the yoke, and a nice overlocker for the inside legs.

I was really only being facetious with the "blow" comment, but for reals, if you can get a pair of jeans at cost of $60 and have them be more legit than a pair of $200 jeans, then I would have gone that route a long time ago and I would have begun selling them for like $120.

But if you really are gonna go this route (and weren't just trying to make a statement), I would really like to see what you come up with. All joking aside.

[electrum]

Does he have a flat-bed chainstitch machine and 43200G for the hems? If he doesn't have the double needle machine, that's fine, it will add a more agricultural touch.

If so, and it goes well, please give us his details!

No chainstitch machine and I'm not sure about the single needle or double needle stitching bit, the guy is Asian who doesn't speak very good English so it's hard for me to convey these details to him -- I just point and he says yes, yes. He might end up doing a real hack job I just don't know since I've never used his services before. Anyway it's going to take a while for me to get the denim cuz I'm trying to shoot for some deadstock denim that's shows up on ebay every now and then. 3.5 yrds of '40s deadstock redline sold recently but I passed because the dude didn't know the weight. But yeah, once I have them made I'll post pics...just wondering if I'll get busted by LS&Co for trademark infringement using a copy of their patch, arcs and logos?