Sunrise muddyed jeans/On mud dying in general

[duck sauce]

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4319&category_id=&manufacturer_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

SunRise Japan Jeans

does anyone have any info on them? what is "mud dye"?

[Hendodo]

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4319&category_id=&manufacturer_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

SunRise Japan Jeans

does anyone have any info on them? what is "mud dye"?

Hand dyed in Indigo vats and Mud ditches

[Opie]

I mailed Gordon about the brand since i wanted the mud/indigo as my next pair (why do they have to be so damn slim though?), and this was his reply:

"SRJ have been around for about 10 years and specialize in fitted, simple and

clean pieces sometimes experimenting with various dying and weaving methods

such as the charcoal and mud dying and organic cotton loop wheel sweats.

I've attached a few press clippings for SRJ that give a fairly good

representation of the brand along with the link for the main website below."

If there's any interest i can show those clippings?

[iamstarwars]

show! show!

[Opie]

Ok, for some reason 3 of the 5 pics was .tiff files which photobucket can't upload for some reason.

(the real reason is that i want to keep the hype down and keep them to myself)

free and easy pic

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm86/MortyGras/SRJ1freeeasy.jpg

How to make dying look cool and authentic:

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm86/MortyGras/srj_dye.jpg

[ringring]

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4319&category_id=&manufacturer_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=28

SunRise Japan Jeans

does anyone have any info on them? what is "mud dye"?

I have not yet seen the jeans in question. Presumably the indigo is yarn dyed as is the normal practice for denim, and the the mud provides a lo-fi black 'topping'? I'd be curious to see if they were skein, piece or garment dyed in the mud. Blue in Green consistently find interesting stuff.

Despite my ignorance regarding your first question, I can chip in with a small contribution to the second part of your query.

Mud dyeing is an ancient method to achieve black before the global trade in Logwood* in the 1600s and the use of sulphur dyes a couple of hundred years later. It's a way of dyeing found in all over the world. Perhaps these jeans are mud-dyed in the Ryukyu areas of the south of Japan where the tradition is preserved.

It all depends on the right type of mud. Burying your jeans in any old muddy ditch will probably just get them dirty rather than imparting any colourfast tonal changes.

Two conditions are required in order to get a mud that dyes: A high ferrous content, from water passing over iron-rich rocks and a high tannin** content from rotten vegetation. Boggy mangrove swamp mud, paddy field mud where the water gathers in rust tinged pools. The iron and the tannin react to form a black dye.

Perhaps any Kiwis reading this can confirm that the the black flax used by Maori's for their traditional costume was achieved by mud dyeing. I can't help but wonder if there's some cultural connective tissue that binds Maori mud 'paru' dyeing to the New Zealand All-Black rugby kit.

*As a footnote, the story of logwood dyeing is an epic story, that warrants a deeper discussion, encompassing the Spanish discovery of the New World and the Mayan people put to the sword and yoke to process this precious black. Of English pirates and privateers. And the spread of Puritan religious values which favoured sober, black coloured clothing over the perceived rich indulgence of a more colourful palette.

** Tann come from Celtic word for oak. Oak is traditionally used to tan leather and in conjunction with iron mordants, to dye yarn/fabric.

[dralfonzo]

wow, ringxring your like a walking encyclopedia! Thanks for the post very informative.

[mmmdonuts]

^ yeah thats nuts LOL. thanks for the insight , +!!

[ringring]

^ yeah thats nuts LOL. thanks for the insight , +!!

You're welcome. Would anyone be up for some DIY mud dyeing?

The ferrous content could be met by soaking some iron filings or iron nails in vinegar. And the tannins could be introduced by using oak bark, acorns and/or oak gallnuts. Very traditional

Mix with earth and water and bury your jeans.

Could be an interesting experiment.

[dralfonzo]

I might give it a try tonight. How long underground do you think they would need to show some nice dyeing?

[ringring]

I might give it a try tonight. How long underground do you think they would need to show some nice dying?

Excellent. A taker. I'm impressed by your enthusiasm.

I *think* a week under the mud would do it. I have no expertise in this, so I would be fascinated by your experiment.

You'd need your mud to be right though. So you may want to prepare it by soaking your rusty nails in vinegar (classically, 12 pints of vinegar to each pound of iron). Leave for a month. Then throw in your tannin plants. Oak bark, acorns, connifer bark (Navajo style), mascerated and left for a week.

Then make your mud and bury.

[Hendodo]

Excellent. A taker. I'm impressed by your enthusiasm.

I *think* a week under the mud would do it. I have no expertise in this, so I would be fascinated by your experiment.

You'd need your mud to be right though. So you may want to prepare it by soaking your rusty nails in vinegar (classically, 12 pints of vinegar to each pound of iron). Leave for a month. Then throw in your tannin plants. Oak bark, acorns, connifer bark (Navajo style), mascerated and left for a week.

Then make your mud and bury.

so does mud dying making your jeans a litle dirty/smelly too?? are you supposed to soak afterward??

[ringring]

The jeans would need to be rinsed clean afterwards.

[Hendodo]

hey dralfonzo, u do it yet???

[Skeese]

Ed has a pair of mud-dyed Yen Jeans..

Dying process

[panthermodern]

hey dralfonzo, u do it yet???

He can't have if he is doing it right. Read ringring's post: it will take at least a month to prepare the mud properly. I need more ringring in my life. Your posts are gold.

[dralfonzo]

we all need more ring ring. ive been superbusy at work all week but hopefully im going to prep it all tonight. Fear not - it shall be well documented!

[ringring]

Ed has a pair of mud-dyed Yen Jeans.. Dying process

.

Thanks for that link. It's really interesting, seeing the garment dye process. Presumably the plum tree dip provides the tannins and the 'rice paddy' -like mud provides the iron.

I noticed that Gilded Age also produce jeans using various natural dyes. They have a nice account of their volcanic mud dye jeans here.

http://www.gildedage.net/volcanic_mud_dye.html

Again, the dyeing is about the reaction between iron & tannins. They also list other jeans dyed with Logwood (mentioned previously in this discussion) and Alder. Alder has a long tradition as a dyestuff used by Native Americans and may have some etymological relationship with the word 'black'. Alder bark was called blec by Flemish dyers of the Middle Ages and to dye using Alder was to 'blecken' - black being the colour that Alder bark imparted on wool.

This tree dyeing jeans is interesting I know that sawdust from the Chestnut tree will make excellent dyestuff and was a substantial business in pre WW2 France and Italy. And I recall seeing beautiful blue-greys dyed with Sumac galls in Japan (Kyoto?), and wondering what kind of substance the galls were made of. Were they plant or animal? As it turns out, they are both!

You can see what I mean when you see them : http://feltcafe.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html

I think I may have seen them in traditional Chinese pharmacies too.

He can't have if he is doing it right. Read ringring's post: it will take at least a month to prepare the mud properly. I need more ringring in my life. Your posts are gold.

.

Thanks for the encouragement. Please note, it's purely an interest, and I'm just a dilettante, so please beware of any armchair punditry on my part. I'm not sure that the recipe for spiking the mud with iron from rusty nails is quite in keeping with the natural spirit of the mud dyeing - or if indeed it will work! I'm delighted that dralfonzo is giving it try though.

.

[Vanquish Gold]

You're welcome. Would anyone be up for some DIY mud dyeing?

The ferrous content could be met by soaking some iron filings or iron nails in vinegar. And the tannins could be introduced by using oak bark, acorns and/or oak gallnuts. Very traditional

Mix with earth and water and bury your jeans.

Could be an interesting experiment.

How do you know so much.. you should win a nobel award seriously...

[dralfonzo]

Prepped some of it tonight. For iron rich solution which will hopefully give the jeans a dark grey colour with a blue tint;

" With iron the color is gray to black, usually with a decided blue cast."

http://www.aurorasilk.com/info/logwood.shtml

I've added anything rusty (nails, bolts, screws, washers) I could find hiding away in the garage into a bucket with a bottle of clear malt vinegar and about 2 pints of water. This will help to create an iron rich solution, to which i'll then add wood chippings / bark etc (probably a mixture of different types of wood for kicks). This will have to be left to ferment together for probably a week or two.

After this is ready i'll add mud into the mix, hand wash the jeans through it and then probably bury it under soil for a week. I might pour more of the solution over the buried jeans every day or so while they are underground if theres any left.

The unwilling volunteer. Standard 501. Probably around 5/6 months wear but I don't wear them that much currently. I think i'm going to give these a few hot washes while I wait for the dye to be ready, just so that the results are as pronounced as possible.

Not as many screws etc as I would have liked but it'll have to do.

one of these;

some of this;

glug glug glug.

[dralfonzo]

i'll leave it hidden away for probably 2 weeks to get all rusty and smelly.

then i'll be raiding the log cupboard and getting the logwood prepard. I think i'll have enough.

If you have anymore suggestions / comments / hints / advice etc please let me know before it's too to change anything! I think this is a bit of a hit and miss experiment to be honest, i'm just going to jam it all together and see what happens.

[chambo2008]

cool keep up the good work, should be as good as if not better then the guy who tea stained his jeans

[duck sauce]

ur amazing ringring :8) so the sunrise jeans would be a indigo/black/(temporary?) brown dyed jean? i wanna see how dralfs will fade

[ringring]

then i'll be raiding the log cupboard and getting the logwood prepard. I think i'll have enough. If you have anymore suggestions / comments / hints / advice etc please let me know before it's too to change anything! I think this is a bit of a hit and miss experiment to be honest, i'm just going to jam it all together and see what happens.

.

Thanks for the photos! Is that Logwood? aka Campeche/Campeggio? Anyway, you may want to start processing the wood into chips/sawdust plus whatever else that you can find with tannin content (acorns, pomegranate peel, rosehips, chestnuts etc) and soak them or even boil them up to accelerate the process. Whilst chipping up your wood, you could see if the contact from the iron cutting tool will turn the wood black. It would probably work best on fresh wood.

And, as you have the iron & tannins, perhaps have a go at making ink? http://www.knaw.nl/ecpa/ink/make_ink.html

You could test some bits of fabric by dunking them in the tannin liquid then into the ferrous water before making up your mud. You're doing a great experiment

.

ur amazing ringring :8) so the sunrise jeans would be a indigo/black/(temporary?) brown dyed jean? i wanna see how dralfs will fade

.

From the photos at Blue in Green, the Sunrise jeans look to be blue, with a over dye in black done on the garment stage. The mud-dye will have taken especially well to the weft yarns, which I assume would have been ecru. I'm not sure how they'll fade - perhaps a little like the 45rpm Nandos which are indigo warp, sulphur black weft.

.

[salaami]

im going to mix up some concoctions at the crib, and wild out on some reg ole white tees. i'll see what i can come up with...

[ringring]

im going to mix up some concoctions at the crib, and wild out on some reg ole white tees. i'll see what i can come up with...

Excellent. I hope you keep us posted with your results.

I couldn't help noticing that you're from "the cancer-causing-capital of the confederacy" and thought you might like to try a home brew version of dyeing using walnuts. Why walnuts? It's the dye used for the uniform jackets of the Confederate soldiers in the American Civil War.

You'd need the husks of the fresh nuts and steep them in water to ferment them for a week or two. Throw in some walnut bark if you like. Then chuck in your Tshirts or Jeans. Cold dye or warm dye should both work.

And if you have a passing interest in military uniform, apparently the US Army used Osage Orange to obtain khaki colours prior to switching to synthetic dyes. I've seen this wood used in bows, knife handles and skateboards

[tmadd]

This thread is excellent, and I hope that it continues both in terms of experiments and history lessons.

[dralfonzo]

UPDATE

So the vinegar / water mix has been left for about a week and a bit. It stinks, and the nails and screws etc have turned must rustier than they were when I first put them in. Good sign!

Tonight I added bark, woodchips, sawdust, twigs and some small chunks of wood into the bucket. The wood is a mix of birch, oak and beech. Ill strain it all in a few days probably, just going to see how it reacts. To be honest i'm not expecting a huge change in the solution but im a sceptic and I hope to be suprised!

Pics;

orange water, more defined in person

gnar

even the cat thinks im fucking nuts

more pics in about a week.

[dralfonzo]

UPDATE

So the vinegar / water mix has been left for about a week and a bit. It stinks, and the nails and screws etc have turned must rustier than they were when I first put them in. Good sign!

Tonight I added bark, woodchips, sawdust, twigs and some small chunks of wood into the bucket. The wood is a mix of birch, oak and beech. Ill strain it all in a few days probably, just going to see how it reacts. To be honest i'm not expecting a huge change in the solution but im a sceptic and I hope to be suprised!

Pics;

orange water, more defined in person

gnar

even the cat thinks im fucking nuts

more pics in about a week.

[simontuntelder]

Great update. Interesting.