His Pres changed the prices on their regular '47 sugarcanes by $50?

[punyfig]

That'll teach me to procrastinate. Missed out at Grandism and HP now. F**k it. Still, the bid-service.jp site looks good. Has anybody here used it?

[Edge_Of_Denim]

There are enough denim-heads on this forum to to help you with the size thing.

[tangerine]

Where are you guys seeing the Edo Ai for 16800Â¥? On Hinoya they are 29800Â¥... Are we talking about the same jeans?

punyfig, I have used bid-service a couple of times and Juno is very reliable.

ask a cassowary

[minya]

I have no idea why you guys are so angry.

1) You know what they say about snoozing. And losing.

2) Some of you seem personally offended that History Preservation chose to raise the prices. As if you somehow deserve to be able to buy them at a cheaper price. Haha.

Business is business, folks.

[partytaco]

i don't know about you but i'm pretty particular about how my jeans fit and no matter how many denimheads there might be on this site I'm not going to know how the jeans fit me until I try them on.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

But Minya, I think what we are objecting to is not HP's right to make a buck, but that they are doing it under the pretense of exclusivity. Someone has already pointed out the accompanying text for the new styles, and how it all seems to be so much puffery. Or put it this way- side by side with top of the line Nudie/Rogan/Rag & Bone, et al, is Sugar Cane really twice the price nice? History Preservation can certainly do what they want, but a savvy shopper with an internet connection can do better, by half. That's a huge difference. Interesting, that the various bid shops haven't upped their prices similarly.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

Partytaco, that's the one advantage HP has in all this, I guess. Returning a pair of denim to Japan might result in a bit of a headache.

[bobby alto]

I know thats just business but come on $500 plus shipping for Hawaii's? Don't you think thats a little over the top?

[Edge_Of_Denim]

^ It's off the damn chain.

[minya]

Quote:

But Minya, I think what we are objecting to is not HP's right to make a buck, but that they are doing it under the pretense of exclusivity. Someone has already pointed out the accompanying text for the new styles, and how it all seems to be so much puffery. Or put it this way- side by side with top of the line Nudie/Rogan/Rag & Bone, et al, is Sugar Cane really twice the price nice? History Preservation can certainly do what they want, but a savvy shopper with an internet connection can do better, by half. That's a huge difference. Interesting, that the various bid shops haven't upped their prices similarly.

--- Original message by Edge_Of_Denim on Feb 28, 2006 12:18 PM

What's wrong with the pretense of exclusivity? Supply/demand, man. Basic law of economics.

I do agree that the natural indigo jeans are absurdly overpriced and I doubt they're going to sell much at all. If they don't, then History Preservation will be forced to lower prices until they do sell.

[partytaco]

what it boils down to is they (History Pres.) know people will stil buy them. They're easy to deal with, they're in the states, you can return them if they don't fit....it sucks but they'll do ok and after the initial bitching by the cosumer they'll be on the phone placing orders. Did anyone notice the Ricksons jumped to $295 and that's for old stock...the new stock will be even higher....glad I bought mine last month.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

I did. What's up with that? I got mine for $235. Now they're $295 and climbing HA!!

I bet they sell more of the Okinawa/Hawaii 2nd tier styles at $295. $500 because them shits is hand dyed and you get a tote bag and a bandana, naaaaah, not feelin' dat my brother.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Quote:

the price hike sucks but the nice thing with them is that if they don't fit you can return them....try returning a pair of jeans you bought from japan through a bid service.

--- Original message by partytaco on Feb 28, 2006 11:30 AM

Yeah, but on the other hand this price increase means that if you bought the wrong size from Japan and decide to sell them here, you might be able to get a little more today than you would yesterday.

btw, isnt 45rpm a lot less in Japan than in the US? I could have seen a different, cheaper line though.

dontcaretoomuchforcrap CANT SKATE!!

Edited by horriblyjollyjinx on Feb 28, 2006 at 01:00 PM

[Edge_Of_Denim]

That's aiiight, you nigerians be sure to let me know how you make out. My next purchase is prolly gonna be Rag & Bone black denim. $250 for R&B, amidst this craziness, that's almost like buying from Target.

[sbrguy]

honestly, i don't think that denim will be the trendy thing too much anymore in a year or two..

basically for now, they can have their asking price, but i think in a year or so, the denim market for paying 400 and up for jeans is going to dry up, afterall how many pairs of 500 dollar jeans can people really afford?

sure a few ppoeple can have entire wardrobes, but for most people it will be a one time buy bc that is all they can really afford.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

Yup, last time I walked through Coop I didn't see one single pair of denim for $500. Not a one. I agree that this particular market may be short-lived. I'd like to imagine calling HP in a year or so and finding that those $500 specimens have been dropped or the price lowered significantly, which would allow me to say, "Oh, my, lowered our prices, have we? tsk tsk"

[triniboy27]

You guys are blowing this thing way out of proportion.

First off, denim (pricey or otherwise) will never be out. The reason you don't see a lot of $500 jeans when you walk through Co-Op is that there aren't a lot of them commercially available. Nudie makes their $500 RRDS Veggie Indigo and there are a couple of LVC's I've seen retailing for $501 but that's about it. Most jeans are priced below that and ppl have been more than willing to pay that price.

Secondly, y'all are talking like every pair of jeans that HP sells is now retailing for $500. I'm pretty sure they know that they're not going to sell a ton of them at that price and have factored that into their inventory. If anything, they could just be testing the market for demand.

[giantreptile]

like minya said, get out your economic books people, it's supply and demand. but i do detect a hint of price-gouging. for those of you mad about the price hike, just wait till grandism gets more. until then, there's plenty of domestic denim to be had that is equally as good (cough--rag and bone--cough). i even have a challenge for you, find the next 'sugar cane'. go on a hunt for the best jeans that you've never heard of, and inform us of your find. sugar cane doesn't deserve all the attention. i've been trying for months to clue people in on big john.

[partytaco]

Big John = Bad Name. I know it might sound foolish but I think alot of people make their denim choices based on how cool the name sounds and I think someone saying they're wearing Big Johns doesn't sound cool. sorry.

Edited by partytaco on Feb 28, 2006 at 02:59 PM

[HEWSINATOR]

The problem I think people are having is not understanding economics, but the price in comparison to others and to the old price. It is just odd that today something is x and tomorrow it is x*1.5. Hey, if they can sell and make more $ at that price point then great, but it would seem like they may not. People buying $300 dollar repros are not stupid, I would even say that they know thier shit quite well. They will pay a fair price, whatever that may be to get what they want, but I see no justifaction in this. If they were selling more then you would think that the prices would lower.

Thier supplier may have raised the prices, but by that much?

[eastcoastrider27]

I was going to buy those 1942 Rickson's this Summer, but now I'm put off.

I could understand if they were to raise the price of the new stock they're buying if wholesale prices were raised. But the fact that they are selling old stock at a raised price AND are going to raise the price again once new stock comes in is disappointing to say the least.

Whatever, I slept, so I missed out.

I'll just have to find another place to get some Rickson's or other repros with a ridiculously long inseam.

Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado

[wooster]

maybe what's going on is that hist. pres. is moving into a distributor role. before, they were the end seller, so they just charged a standard markup and were happy. but now they're trying to sell to third parties who will act as the primary retailer. so h.p. now needs to make their wholesale markup and then the end seller has to make it's retail markup. because hist. pres. can't be underselling anyone on their own web site, they now have to price at the new much higher suggested retail.

this is what happened with nudie. street $ for RRDS was at or a little above $200, then a U.S. distributor took control and all of sudden it's $275.

[wild_whiskey]

They're not going to sell as well, IMO. This is exactly what happened to Nudie. RRDS selling like theyre the last things on earth (hyped like motherfuckers on Superfuture), all of the sudden Nudie happens to get US distribution and they hike the price to $265.

IMO, Sugarcane 47s are not that great. While their quality is great, the denim doesnt have the same hand or color that most people want these days. They're worth the $160, but not $200+. Rickson's used to be a good deal, now they're just a deal, and with new stock they'll be a bad deal. I think the reason people even bought them so much in the first place was because they were $160 and available from a simple phone call and because they saw a cool PHOTOGRAPH (read: not the real thing, low-res computer screen and some photoshop can do a lot for your jeans) of some worn-ins that looked really good. The same went for APCs being bought online.

Oh well. Severely disappointed in History Preservation - IF this is on their laps. If they're using the same markup and it was Toyo's doing, well.. oh well. I still think American brands are better.

[Guest]

Guys, back off the biz about "supply and demand". You want to talk to me about that concept then talk about "XBox" or "ipod". And don't get me started about how craven Apple is in driving their ipod market by constantly offering ever newer models which don't really represent any significant value over what they offered just one year prior. "An all black ipod featuring a U2 tie-in, OOOOOOO, I gotta me one of those".

I don't believe that HP's price level will move towards any point in which "supply" reflects "demand", and I'm speaking only about those $500 items. As I said above I believe they WILL sell those $295 items quite well. Could be they are carrying the more expensive styles, as someone else suggested, to test a would be market. Or to better reflect those less expensive items, you know, "Gee whiz, I can't afford the super-dooper expensive style, but I can still obtain a piece of the brand for about half as much!". I dunno, when that guy at HP gave me his spiel I could sense he was all impressed with himself about what was about to jump off. And, yeah, selling their "old" stock at newly increased prices is bullshit, plain and simple. I hope they're wildly successful in their efforts to broker themselves as a supplier of a luxury brand to certain outlets. That's what is really going on.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

I said I do believe that Hist. Pres. WILL sell those 2nd tier items quite well. I don't believe the $500 items will do as good. It could be that they're merely testing a would be market by featuring them, or maybe its just to better reflect those other styles, you know, "I can't afford the super-duper expensive denim, but I can still grab a piece of the image for half the price." And that happens all the time. And, no, I don't believe their price level honestly reflects a real demand for those $500 items. I just don't. I do believe that selling "old" stock at newly increased prices is bullshit, plain and simple. How are you going to defend that?

You want to talk about supply and demand you better talk about "XBox" or "ipod", those are better models to illustrate that concept. And don't get me started about how pathetically craven Apple is in driving their ipod market by isssuing ever newer models whihc don't offer any significant value over what was only put on the shelves yesterday. "Wow!, an all black ipod pitched by U2, OOOOOOO, I just gotta get me one of those!"

Anyway I hope HP is wildly successful in their efforts to better position themselves as a distributor of this newly minted luxury brand, because that's what is really going on here.

[bobby alto]

Quote:

what or who is Celga/Juno/Djrajio ?

how do you find them?

--- Original message by sbrguy on Feb 28, 2006 09:44 AM

^^ This post is actually a reason why this might work for HP. A lot of people still don't know about going through a middle man to get goods from Japan and they might think this is the only way to get them.

You know the more I think about it, I am guessing that SugarCane raised the prices and there is nothing HP can really do about it. If HP was just trying to make a little more profit, I don't think they would have raised it that drastically. I mean look at all the negative responses to the increase. I am sure they would have anticipated that.

[partytaco]

Quote:

They're not going to sell as well, IMO. This is exactly what happened to Nudie. RRDS selling like theyre the last things on earth (hyped like motherfuckers on Superfuture), all of the sudden Nudie happens to get US distribution and they hike the price to $265.

IMO, Sugarcane 47s are not that great. While their quality is great, the denim doesnt have the same hand or color that most people want these days. They're worth the $160, but not $200+. Rickson's used to be a good deal, now they're just a deal, and with new stock they'll be a bad deal. I think the reason people even bought them so much in the first place was because they were $160 and available from a simple phone call and because they saw a cool PHOTOGRAPH (read: not the real thing, low-res computer screen and some photoshop can do a lot for your jeans) of some worn-ins that looked really good. The same went for APCs being bought online.

Oh well. Severely disappointed in History Preservation - IF this is on their laps. If they're using the same markup and it was Toyo's doing, well.. oh well. I still think American brands are better.

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Feb 28, 2006 04:32 PM

aren't the colors of the sugarcanes and buzz ricksons supposed to be matched to the originals? they aren't out to maake the hottest darkest blues...these are supposed to be reproductions of classic US wartime wear not pants for trend puppies. this thread is getting alittle rediculas. after everyone calms down they will realize that yes the price went up and yes that always sucks but look at the quality of the product you're getting when compared to other denim in this price range....these aren't much more than ernest sewn or PDC and they are a far superior product with details that often cost alot of money to produce reproduce....buttons, zippers, correct patch leathers, selvage (correct right hand and left hand twills and denim weights) denim, stitching, flasher cards, rivets etc......maybe they weren't making any money on the previous sales, maybe a supplier raised the price of their denim or something else...who knows but honestly these are great jeans for a good price...consider yourself lucky if you got them before the price hike when they were a steal.

[Edge_Of_Denim]

Quote: these are supposed to be reproductions of classic US wartime wear not pants for trend puppies

That's what I was getting at in an earlier post. I also asked if the guy who buys into the more "workwear" style of Buzz Rickson is the same person for Sugar Cane, since, to me, Sugar Cane embodies a trendier aspect. Here's something else: where is the Hist. Pres. market anyway? From where are they pulling? Is it here at Superfuture, because the things that reach me on the net, in print, aren't talking about Sugar Cane, I don't see it mentioned anywhere, and I don't hear anyone talking it up. so what gives? Where do they advertise? Do they even advertise in this country? I'm struggling to identify a market outside of us on this forum and I just can't.

Nobody knows who the fuck Sugar Cane is, far as I can see. It's not some jive-ass fashionista brand, either. The guys on this forum don't come across as a bunch of silly-ass divas. The guys who are talking Dior Homme or Prada on this forum are in the distinct minority. The majority are into what I'll call "non-commercial denim". Maybe we're about to see an advertisiing blitz. Maybe get one of the actors from "Smallville" to model Sugar Cane in GQ or Details, or some shit. Who knows? It's very curious.

[YoungPunch]

Thats a good question: who is History preservation's target consumer for a pair of natural indigo edo-ais? Its us, the superfuture members and denim nerds. I can't see a fat, middle-aged, size 40 waist, WWII history-buff buying a pair of jeans made from sweet sorghum, natural indigo with crazy dragon tattoo motifs on them for $500.

[giantreptile]

Quote:

Big John = Bad Name. I know it might sound foolish but I think alot of people make their denim choices based on how cool the name sounds and I think someone saying they're wearing Big Johns doesn't sound cool. sorry.

Edited by partytaco on Feb 28, 2006 at 02:59 PM

--- Original message by partytaco on Feb 28, 2006 02:54 PM

oh but acne, now that's an ace name!