Cormac McCarthy's The Road (spoilers) and it's movie adaptation

[Charlie Delta]

Finished reading it for the second time this morning.

Still amazing.

Wondering what peoples opinions were on the relevance of the very last passage.

The one about the trout.

[juliaN.]

that was a fairly enigmatic passage...not quite sure i fully got it

my interpretation was it was either an allusion to rebirth of a world, heaven, or some mixture of both

also maybe a parable of warning to the existing world we're in

[NESK]

no country and the road make me want to know what cormacs relationship with his father is like.

hes obviously very talented, but what really blows my mind about his work that ive encountered is how honestly hes able to articulate the death of the male role model. he creates these intense mascualine archetypes then destroys them so unapologetically.

[juliaN.]

i think his depiction is one of greater warmth and reverence though, as opposed to, say, Philip Roth, where the central male role has been depicted as a neverending downward spiral with no remorse or redemption. McCarthy seems to be focusing more on the aspect of survival in a reactionary sense, as opposed to self-initiated destruction as a response mechanism to the surroundings.

[Charlie Delta]

With regards to the trout passage, I think the way I read it was that nothing is forever and nothing should be taken for granted as such, the trout, in all it's simplicity and with the small role it has in "our" world being described as a kind of "perfect" creation of nature/God and it too not having survived the total destruction that has befallen the earth. Even these kind of things that are way more powerful and older than man itself, are not "just there"...

Cherish everything for what it is today, as it might not be there tomorrow.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.

With regards to the father-son thing I think this is the most powerful book on interhuman relationship I have read so far.

And in the Oprah interview he says that the book is about his relationship with his young son, can't recall if he mentions his own father though

[juliaN.]

And in the Oprah interview he says that the book is about his relationship with his young son, can't recall if he mentions his own father though

yes, this is what i have read in various commentary on the text and McCarthy's own intentions with it. He came to fatherhood relatively late in life, hence the very personal nature of the text.

[larry3]

With regards to the trout passage, I think the way I read it was that nothing is forever and nothing should be taken for granted as such, the trout, in all it's simplicity and with the small role it has in "our" world being described as a kind of "perfect" creation of nature/God and it too not having survived the total destruction that has befallen the earth. Even these kind of things that are way more powerful and older than man itself, are not "just there"...

Cherish everything for what it is today, as it might not be there tomorrow.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.

Lets just say the sun is going to burn out some day!

[Charlie Delta]

Are you implying that the sun dying out is the reason for the world being the way it is in the book?

Or just replying to what I wrote?

While on the subject, poeple have thoughts on what it is that could have caused this? And why?

[larry3]

Are you implying that the sun dying out is the reason for the world being the way it is in the book?

Or just replying to what I wrote?

While on the subject, poeple have thoughts on what it is that could have caused this? And why?

Nope, more the pointlessness of the boy living in the end. In the long run were going to be extinct and I think it would have been better if he tackled this subject. Suppose its the last great taboo that no one wants to face. Might not go down well though with the oprah set.

Read somewhere that it was an "impact". Maybe a meteor or something.

[Charlie Delta]

Personally I think he didn't need to tackle to subject, there was no doubt about it anyway, and imho it's not what the book is about.

I mean, yea regardless, we will all die in the end, we don't need a disaster to do that for us.

Having the boy die would be like abandoning all hope, not hope to survive, just, to live a little more...

And implying that he wrote this with the "Oprah set" in mind doesn't do him or the book justice at all!

Seems that most common causes of the disaster that I've read so far are a meteor impact or nuclear war, I'm more inclined towards thinking it was the latter.

[Orion]

Wow... I pushed through about half yesterday (stopped around 3:30am after they left the stocked cellar) and I'm just amazed. I usually have a hard time with authors that drive too much description into each sentence, but for me, McCarthy's landscape descriptions never became repetitive. I'd agree with most others who read the book, it absolutely stirs emotions when he watches over the boy as he sleeps, or comments on the boy's frail state. I think about me and my own son in that context and it just tears me away thinking about trying to keep him warm in the rain. The interactions with other people are done perfectly. Gruesome, but quick. I was smiling when they found the cellar stocked with food and clothing. It was the only part I felt I could leave off at comfortably.

[ChadM]

I didn't read through this entire thread because I didn't want to spoil the book for myself, but I finished McCarthy's The Blood Meridian last month and loved it. I find myself having a hard time reading anything else now. I was inspired to read the book by an album by Ben Nichols(the lead singer of Lucero) called The Last Pale Light In The West....check it out.

[Baeyer-Drewson]

Read somewhere that it was an "impact". Maybe a meteor or something.

I assumed almost immediately that it was nuclear war. The sun is almost completely obscured by atmospheric debris. This leads to extremely cold weather almost globally and the loss of most plants and the animals that feed on them due to severely reduced sunlight (aka nuclear winter). The constant mention of the settled "ash" is also consistent with this. The piece of evidence that sealed it is that the Man is very careful about keeping from their drinking water (presumably to prevent the ingestion of too much radioactive material).

Now that I think about it, a large enough meteor impact would have an almost identical effect on the planet. The wiki page on asteroid impacts is a pretty good read itself.

I don't think McCarthy himself will ever answer that one conclusively though

[NESK]

i think its better not to question how shit got fucked up. just knowing the world is doomed without explanation is way more powerful.

[juliaN.]

agreed (w/ NESK)

[Charlie Delta]

I read somewhere that apparently McCarthy had asked a scientist friend of his what the effects of a large scale meteor hit would be.

But that doesn't prove much, it could've just been research.

Indeed like you said, a very large meteor impact would throw enough dust into the atmosphere to also completely block out sunlight for a certain period of time.

However, nearing the end of the book, in one of the coastal cities there is this passage:

...clusters of tall buildings vaguely askew. He thought the iron armatures had softened in the heat and the reset again to leave the buildings standing out of true. The melted window glass hung frozen down the walls like icing on a cake.

Which is supposedly only something that could happen in a nuclear blast.

edit: and I too agree with Nesk, it adds to the power of the book which is undoubtedly why McCarthy didn't mention it himself.

However, I do find it "fun" to speculate about these type of things, heh...

[Baeyer-Drewson]

I actually only got thinking about how the devastation might have happened after I finished reading the book.

I really hate it when explanations are provided for every event in any book or film. I think this need to explain everything away in many movies speaks volumes about the nature of your standard Hollywood audience. I think good writers (like good film-makers) expect a certain degree of intelligence and intuitive capability of their audience.

[Orion]

I think good writers (like good film-makers) expect a certain degree of intelligence and intuitive capability of their audience.

This is one of the better statements I've read regarding interpretation of film, literature, art, etc... Applauded.

Went and picked up Blood Meridian and Child of God tonight. I'm about 20 pages from finishing The Road, and I'm really looking forward to reading more from McCarthy. I know he's published quite a few works, but any other reccomendations? It looks like "All the Pretty Horses" is referenced quite a bit by critics...

[Baeyer-Drewson]

^All The Pretty Horses was recommended to me by someone who incidently didn't enjoy most of McCarthy's other works she had read (The Road, Blood Meridian).

I think I will check out No Country For Old Men next. I really liked the film (big Coen Bros fan) and the novel is supposed to be quite good too.

[North Country Man]

No Country For Old Men is fantastic! Get it and read it now! I could not stop reading it, same thing happened with The Road.

McCarthy is one of the most powerfull writer of our day. He has something to say and he delivers it with such skill.

The first chapter of No Country For Old Men is phenomenal!

[Orion]

I'm gonna pick up No Country as well, should've last night... We should hijack the SuFu Book Club thread for this one. Hahaha...

[redgrail]

Orion - definitely read the Border trilogy in order. It is much more rewarding that way. All the Pretty Horses, then The Crossing, then Cities of the Plain. Follow with No Country and then Blood Meridian (seems to me to be the most inaccessible of McCarthy's works, but also very rewarding). After that, you can read the pre-80s stuff. Not up to the same standard, in my opinion, but still worth a read.

[larry3]

No Country For Old Men is fantastic! Get it and read it now! I could not stop reading it, same thing happened with The Road.

McCarthy is one of the most powerfull writer of our day. He has something to say and he delivers it with such skill.

The first chapter of No Country For Old Men is phenomenal!

He's a good writer, but your going a bit over board. Great that a Pulitzer prize winner has an audio book on the front page of itunes in that maybe more people will read other books from other years ( Philip roth), but then again the popularity of the book has something to do how easy it is read and the apocalyptic themed subject matter that seems to appeal to post 9/11 america rather than the quality of the writing.

[Orion]

Yeah, I'd agree that how easy of a read and the subject matter makes the author more appealing to a broader group of people, but I think the way McCarthy delivers the message is done very well. Different people with different tastes will gravitate toward certain styles, but I'm glad this thread was started. I might not have picked up any of his works if it hadn't. I enjoy reading and try to work through a variety of authors, but I haven't been moved by a novel like I was by The Road in a long time.

[hellogoodbye]

just finished reading this, felt a little let down by the deus ex machina ending, but to be fair i'm not sure how else it could have ended.

A+++ would read again

[Leeacto]

I also thought it was a pretty great book. I've only read that and No Country by McCarthy. I kind of thought the message of No Country was stronger, while the actual story of The Road was its strongpoint.

I look forward to the movie since Viggo has become pretty picky about his roles. Anyone think they shot the baby on a spit scene?

[Baeyer-Drewson]

^Maybe the scene is implied or off-camera? There are many scenes in McCarthy's works that aren't really suitable for filming. I think the sheer inhumanity of what goes on in some of the more disturbing scenes (as opposed to cheap "shock value") gives a lot of weight to his books.

[hellogoodbye]

i doubt they would omit the baby on a spit/livestock chilling in the basement scenes, seem like pretty crucial scenes to me.

[RAISED BY WOLVES]

Nope, more the pointlessness of the boy living in the end. In the long run were going to be extinct and I think it would have been better if he tackled this subject. Suppose its the last great taboo that no one wants to face. Might not go down well though with the oprah set.

Again, i find your comment unfounded and misguided.

I don't understand why you continue to imply that it takes "balls" or some shit like that to tackle the idea of human extinction. IT DOESN"T. What takes balls is any attempt to come to a multifaceted understanding of the human condition, the obstacles we face, and to a certain degree, the glimmer of hope that remains in the face of the inevitable.

"might not go down with well with the oprah set"?

Of all the writers out there who might tune their sensabilities to the god-awful queen of daytime TV, I think McCarthy is the least likely. Not that he is some demi-god above bowing to pop-cultural trends, I just don't see that type of concern evident in the writing.

[femelle]

Okay, I know a lot of you told me not to cry, but fuck....

And why haven't I been back to this thread until now?