Which is the darkest Indigo denim ?

[rodski]

my mate was wearing his black tenderloins the other day,but after 2 soaks and about 18 months twice weekly wear,they look like a real dark blue.nicer than the ones on the denim guide thing on here anyway..

[ringring]

I was just looking at some womens Loomstate natural indigo denim jeans today. Very nice jeans. Significantly lighter than the other synthetic jeans surrounding them.

[scoon0224]

Things are also influenced a lot by how much of the weft shows through. To my eye the Eternals were the darkest I tried on, followed by SDA's.

Both of them darker than Suminando 45rpm, which are indigo topped with black overdye? (they look less blue, but not darker)

For actual darkness of the indigo dyed thread, I tip it to Eternal.

(edit: what he said below... 001's looked darker than 101's)

[ExileOnMainSt]

when you talk studio d'artisan, I would have to say the 00 denim is darker than theyre 100 denim due to the grey weft vs the whiter weft on the 100 denim.

[dim376]

Actually, I don't know that Landsend dipped their yarn 46 times. I just know that they claim it is. Note that is for their 47 Indigo Original Narrow Leg jeans and not the selvedge jeans.

Quoted from the Land's End site : "While most denim yarns are "dipped" (fabric-speak for "dyed") just eight times, we dip the ones in our 47 Indigo denim a full 46 times before they're woven into fabric at an American mill. These repeated dips give the cloth an unusually rich and deep color resembling denim fabric from a century ago. Then garment washing (the 47th step of the name) creates the look and feel of wear, ranging from almost new to 5 years' worth of wear complete with "whiskering" across the front and subtle fading on the thighs. And thanks to the 46 dips, the color is as durable as the fabric itself: 47 Indigo Jeans stay the color you buy far longer than other denim does."

This an extraordinary claim for jeans retailing at $49.50 using US made denim.

47 Indigo Jeans : http://www.landsend.com/pp/47IndigoOriginalNarrowLegJeans-58858_172898_-1.html?CM_MERCH=PAGE_58858

Note that no such claims are made for their Japanese woven, $75 Handcrafted Original Narrow Leg Jeans...

"Handcrafted Jeans are the finest we offer, with the best fabrics, authentic craftsmanship, and attention to detail making each pair truly unique. The fabric is made from ringspun yarns (both indigo-dyed and an off-white yarns, which yields incredibly rich, vintage-looking colors) on old-fashioned (read pre-1970s) narrow looms in Japan"

I agree.. You cannot have a 46 dip denim made in US and retailing at USD49.50.. With this kind of dips, the fabric would be very costly and take away half of the price of the Jeans..It looks like a false claim or maybe they are adding sulphur to get the looks..There is another possiblity.. They mention Made in America and not US.. Maybe the fabric is made in a south american country.. However, still the price is not justified..

[theetruscan]

I agree.. You cannot have a 46 dip denim made in US and retailing at USD49.50.. With this kind of dips, the fabric would be very costly and take away half of the price of the Jeans..It looks like a false claim or maybe they are adding sulphur to get the looks..There is another possiblity.. They mention Made in America and not US.. Maybe the fabric is made in a south american country.. However, still the price is not justified..

I doubt it is in their interest to lie.

I suspect they just speed the denim through the vat of indigo on a conveyer of some kind 46 times. The old-school dipping terminology implies drying between dips (or such is my understanding) and the way Land's End points out that they mean dyed not actually dipped makes me think that they just set up a giant loop or some such and pass the denim in and out of the indigo many times quickly. But, who knows, maybe they are really hardcore.

[ringring]

I doubt it is in their interest to lie.

I suspect they just speed the denim through the vat of indigo on a conveyer of some kind 46 times. The old-school dipping terminology implies drying between dips (or such is my understanding) and the way Land's End points out that they mean dyed not actually dipped makes me think that they just set up a giant loop or some such and pass the denim in and out of the indigo many times quickly. But, who knows, maybe they are really hardcore.

Maybe the 46 times is just a typo?

Compare this to 45rpm's Jomon's, which are dyed 'just' 24 times, and yet considered overkill by most (as most denim mills won't dip anywhere near 24 times, and there's a belief that you reach a serious point of diminishing returns at 16 dips). The Jomons retail in the US at over $700.

I think the simple law of parsimony should yield it's own conclusions.

[dim376]

I doubt it is in their interest to lie.

I suspect they just speed the denim through the vat of indigo on a conveyer of some kind 46 times. The old-school dipping terminology implies drying between dips (or such is my understanding) and the way Land's End points out that they mean dyed not actually dipped makes me think that they just set up a giant loop or some such and pass the denim in and out of the indigo many times quickly. But, who knows, maybe they are really hardcore.

Well, as far as I know , dyeing 46 times is not an easy task.. In fact, it is very tough..There are two main dyeing systems - Rope Dyeing and Slasher dyeing.. In Rope Dyeing, one has to make a Rope of threads and dye it.. At one time you can give max. 16 dips in most machines..If you want to dye it again , the Rope has to be brought back to the dyeing machine - which takes a very long time and adds to cost like hell.. In slasher, the dyeing is done in open form and the threads from 12(normally) beams combine at the end in a single weavers beam.. This also gives 12-16 max dips..( One more thing to remember is that these dips include dips in water - which is done to wash the threads) To bring back the threads from a weavers beam to dyeing is again a complex procedure.. There is another form of dyeing - Loop Dyeing - which is actually not used in most mills and some Japanese and other mills use it for dyeing deep.. Here, giving more dips is possible, but the dyeing time and steaming time is high..The last form of dyeing is Hang Dyeing - done manually.. You can dye as many times you want - but the cost of manual dyeing will be very high in countries like US..

So it is still beyond me , how they claim to dye 46 times..

Another factor to be remembered is - when you dye the yarn, it continuously loses its ability to absorb more color.. Thus with each dyeing dip, the addition to color would be quite less and take more time..

theetruscan - I think Land's End in just involving in jugglery of words to project a particular meaning..the observation made by Ringring also seems correct in this regard