Menswear brands/americans/the market

[mouko]

I posted this on stylezeitgeist, and I thought I'd post it here for some more opinions.

I have been planning my menswear line for some time now and today I sat down and had a bit of a long conversation with my design partner about the american fashion scene, specifically in menswear.

It just seems to me, especially after reading many posts and strong opinions on forums like the fashion spot, that there is nothing exciting coming out of america (in womenswear and menswear).

I don't think I've been excited by any label since Cloak, and even then there were a lot of things that turned me off about cloak (including its pricing). And now since they've closed, I don't feel like there's anything worthy coming out of america, new york in particular.

What is it that is lacking? Does anyone have any opinions? I simply can't put my finger on it really, but seeing NY fashion week, nothing excites me. The same with the big menswear brands in the states being hyped up right now like Tim Hamilton, Band of Outsiders, Robert Molnar. though I've recently warmed up to Robert Gellar. Everything I'm attracted to is being done overseas.

My design partner and I have been having a bit of conflict as to the cause of this. He personally feels that many american brands play it safe (for the purpose of sales), and agree to an extent, but I would also like to believe that the american man is not afraid of a bit of risk. Is this really the case?

I guess I'm ranting a bit, it's just that developing the brand has made me brainstorm and pick apart what's happening here and around the world.

My curiosity has also sorta expanded to wondering what attracts men these days to brands they like. I certainly see, especially here, a lot of guys expanding beyond the norm (and I certainly would categorize the norm by being t-shirt, jeans, sneakers for men) into much higher end brands. I could be wrong here, it could be just the fact that, with the internet, men that are into higher end brands are more accessible. But even within this sort of expansion to slightly more avante garde styles, there's still a slight hesitance into going into the "extreme" that women seem to go with womenswear. My question is, when you buy something (men) how important is overall function? In my personal experience I often find women are more willing to drop money on something because it looks nice with lesser regard for function. Can this be true with men too?

Thoughts?

[ChadM]

I will definitely purchase something that isn't functional. I mean, if you think about it, if we just bought stuff because it was functional there wouldn't be a superfuture because we would all shop at Wal-Mart for items that are just functional. I think its more about want than need... it's not really about function, because a Wal-Mart bomber jacket will keep one just as warm if not warmer than a Dior one, but one would obviously want the Dior version for many different reasons whether it be the person just wants to be seen in an expensive jacket, or maybe they really enjoy the fine craftsminship, or possibly they just love the way they feel when they wear something that fits them perfectly. I could go on for years about the difference between men and womens clothing markets and the way both genders shop. I would love to start a line in a few years, but it takes some serious financial backing and a slew of connections to get your foot in the door. I guess if I could give you any advice it would be to try and find a good balance between design, construction, price point and exclusivity. I find that I would much rather pay $1000 for a more limited, beautifully constructed Ann Dem. jacket that will hold it's value than pay $50 for an H&M jacket that every hipster in New York will be wearing this winter. On the flip side however; look at Ann Ds profit and look at H&M's. I guess what it comes down to is deciding where you want to be in a vast market.

[wEstSidE]

yo man...making "good" or "exciting" or "new" anything is like 40% luck...maybe more iunno...but u need more than skill.

[ChadM]

Check out the "Uber High Fashion...." thread too.

[constant struggle]

I am going to discuss this from a more formal mens wear than streetwear perspective

For menswear, I think most American Men just do not care at all... For a suit, they'll take that cheap $100 suit from the mens warehouse (2 suits, 2 shirts, 2 ties, $250, I think alot of men go for deals like this)

Also, I feel the amount of people who need better Menswear, is not a high number, more and more offices are offering a business casual look, and that entire fashion scene is a complete mess. Most people hardly need or can justify spending alot of money on a good looking suit, or blazer. Even with cheaper options like H&M for a stylish suit or blazer, (Although it will fall apart quickly) does not even take interesting to most men. Why is this? Because most just really do not care, 95% of the guys I know don't care at all, they'd rather hvae the functional piece, that looks bad, and may not last the longest, than have a good combination of function, durability and fashion, which is what I often look for in my clothing. There is hardly an American company making well fitting dress shirts that are in a price range where most white collar americans can afford to buy. Ill fitting chinos plague the world as well.

Most American brands do not care about the cut of their clothing, sizing, anything. I notice in mall brands, sizes get bigger and bigger and bigger over the years. I used to wear larges, now I wear smalls, and for a while I was a comfortable medium, but the thing is I havn't gained weight/changed body shape. 2/3rds of American Adults are overweight, this also causes a huge problem in the market, for stylish clothes, 2/3rds of Americans are not going to be able to fit in them, which makes it hard to have a good market for them.

I look around the office, and it is just entirely filled with clothes that just fit bad, sometimes mine included, just because I can't afford to wear durable, stylish brands all the time, and slowly overtime I would like to have more of those things. But overall, I think most Americans don't care.

Another point of view is, there are alot of foriegn workers in my office, and i see them mostly in American brands as well, and they are dressed just as bad, just because they are mostly very skinny and could pull off most higher end brands great, but I feel they don't care either.

When the view in America is if you are a guy who cares about how you look/fashion you are "gay"... this is just a problem with our culture.

I don't know how there can be a good market for great menswear in america, when people think that their banana republic outfit is some of the best they are going to get. Most people go to the mall to buy their clothes, and the malls just don't offer the style of clothing needed, the fit, the quality.

End of rant...

[fg0d]

yo man...making "good" or "exciting" or "new" anything is like 40% luck...maybe more iunno...but u need more than skill.

Yeah, you need lots of drugs.

[Brienneoftarth]

i think the decline in menswear fashion has alot to do with the general decline in the workplace in the United states. Personally, I consider myself to have a very good sense of style. However, I dress like a complete turd at work for many reasons. #1 good style has become increasingly expensive for the masses. While some stylish individuals can look like a million bucks with thrift finds, this is not the case for many of us and so we're left to dress in crap mall brands that fit horribly. the quality of overall clothes has gone down so much that you have peple like myself paying 3x as much as a I normally would for a nice sweatshirt (LW or whatever) #2 style takes alot of time. in the US, peoples lives are completely dominated by stressfull schedules involving work (commuting/travel etc) that alot of people just dont have the time/energy to dedicate themselves to looking good. most peoples jobs are time consuming and soul crushing so its just "let me put on the khaki and white shirt jumpsuit and get this over with" #3 style is a part of someones identity and as much as US culture teaches people to be self absorbed and vane, corporate culture does not. The company doesnt give a shit if you're wearing a silk polka dot handkercheif as a whimsical sartorial statement...not to the mention we live in such a homphobic, dumbed down, unartistic society that in many places the slightest bit of "dapperness" can garner negative attention.

i've noticed alot of this in my breif (1 y) stint in the corporate world. That said, I am leaving my job in 3 weeks and plan to never work in such an environment ever again. Now i'll finally get to wear all the clothes I buy for my personal life everyday!!!!

[Morningstar]

Muoko, I haven't spoken to you in forever man. It's good to see you're going through with your plan. As for your post, I think the menswear market is pretty specific when it comes to fashion. The problem is menswear is based entirely around function. Think about some of the most modern iconic pieces in a menswear, they all started out as functional pieces of clothing worn with a purpose. Be it the trench, peacoat, motocycle jacket, m65, etc. I think the 60's and 70's was probably one the most interesting period in menswear. Men especially in the 70's were doing things for aesthetic purposes. Function was secondary; best example, platform shoes.

I think you have to approach things either two ways. First option, create a menswear line that is full of interesting design, but know that you will only be addressing a niche market. I'm sure you know that most of America is pretty conserative and consider clothing a necessity with fashion never really comming into play in so much as buying clothes that are contemporary/appropriate for the time and functional.

The other option is to make really classic mens pieces that might not necessarily scream fashion, but resonate with a fashion foward customer (APC, NdG). Clothes like that I think visually have more appeal because there aren't any real bells and whisles that the average guy isn't going to get.

[mouko]

Muoko, I haven't spoken to you in forever man. It's good to see you're going through with your plan. As for your post, I think the menswear market is pretty specific when it comes to fashion. The problem is menswear is based entirely around function. Think about some of the most modern iconic pieces in a menswear, they all started out as functional pieces of clothing worn with a purpose. Be it the trench, peacoat, motocycle jacket, m65, etc. I think the 60's and 70's was probably one the most interesting period in menswear. Men especially in the 70's were doing things for aesthetic purposes. Function was secondary; best example, platform shoes.

I think you have to approach things either two ways. First option, create a menswear line that is full of interesting design, but know that you will only be addressing a niche market. I'm sure you know that most of America is pretty conserative and consider clothing a necessity with fashion never really comming into play in so much as buying clothes that are contemporary/appropriate for the time and functional.

The other option is to make really classic mens pieces that might not necessarily scream fashion, but resonate with a fashion foward customer (APC, NdG). Clothes like that I think visually have more appeal because there aren't any real bells and whisles that the average guy isn't going to get.

Yeah man, I've been sorta in a cave whipping up my business plan and handling business. I certainly agree that menswear first and foremost, especially in america, is heavily about function. Even with iconic brands that, superficially seem to be pushing the envelope in terms of menswear and the way men dress, for example dior homme, is a hard sell. My design partner's best friend is the buyer for the new york dior store and has literally told us that they cannot sell anything outside the "standards" (suits, jeans, shirts, shoes). The big show pieces end up on the sale floor and 99% of the time flying back to paris.

I think this is certainly why the big american brands still maintain this certain aesthetic, while slightly visually different, still have this same "taste" of being very "american". Denim jackets, v-neck sweaters over button ups worn with khakis, leather jackets, gray suits. (Tim hamilton, thom browne, band of outsiders)

This is an issue I'm trying to deal with. Basically,balance between pushing the envelope while still maintain a function. I think a lot of designers argue that it's easy to design high end basics like many american brands do, but I think its much more difficult to work within certain parameters in comparison to being completely avante garde off the wall where you, in a sense, force people to get it or make them accept that you're somehow an intellectual design rebel. (Commes Des Garcon).

[Charlie Delta]

I haven't read everything said here yet, but I think that when looking at menswear Comme des Garcons is not the right brand to look at.

They already had an image to lean on when they started doing mens clothes and thus were easier to accept as "intellectual design rebel".

When you look solely at their mens line and try to forget that its CdG, most of the stuff they put out is actually fairly boring. Yet it gets exciting exactly because of their choise of materials, details and cut.

They never steer far away from what could be considered the classic mens wardrobe.

I think if you would try to do something like that it would be very hard to get attention if you don't already have a story (eg. womesline) behind you.

This is something I've given alot of thought and I'm not able to give you the answer as I don't know it myself.

As Gert Jonkers (from BUTT and Fantastic Man fame) once said to me: "Why do you think the classic blazer keeps coming back with nothing but minor detail adjustments? Because it's perfect as it is, it has evolved into what it is today and doesn't need changing".

Still don't know if I agree with him but I guess the same could be said about jeans.

The men's wardrobe is very difficult to work with, from a design point of view.

Hope that made any sense, just writing down thoughts.

[wEstSidE]

damn cotton...i don't agree with the blazer comment...the cuts need updating sometimes and it's nice to see details etc. changing but "designers" are not the right people to do it...but i see where ur comin from

[Charlie Delta]

don't know what happened but my post got turned into one block of text, my internet is giving me a hard time, sufu is not running 100% could be that. Please excuse, Will edit asap..

fixed

[mouko]

I haven't read everything said here yet, but I think that when looking at menswear Comme des Garcons is not the right brand to look at. They already had an image to lean on when they started doing mens clothes and thus were easier to accept as "intellectual design rebel". When you look solely at their mens line and try to forget that its CdG, most of the stuff they put out is actually fairly boring. Yet it gets exciting exactly because of their choise of materials, details and cut. They never steer far away from what could be considered the classic mens wardrobe. I think if you would try to do something like that it would be very hard to get attention if you don't already have a story (eg. womesline) behind you. This is something I've given alot of thought and I'm not able to give you the answer as I don't know it myself. As Gert Jonkers (from BUTT and Fantastic Man fame) once said to me: "Why do you think the classic blazer keeps coming back with nothing but minor detail adjustments? Because it's perfect as it is, it has evolved into what it is today and doesn't need changing". Still don't know if I agree with him but I guess the same could be said about jeans. The men's wardrobe is very difficult to work with, from a design point of view. Hope that made any sense, just writing down thoughts.

I should have made it clear when I spoke of CDG, I was referencing the womenswear, using it as an extreme example of sort of avante garde aesthetics (if you remember collections such as the hunchback one).I certainly agree that CDG brand image it created with its womenswear brand is certainly the backbone for the acceptance of their menswear label.

So called visionary menswear brands that are still a bit more subtle than the CDG example (which I made an example of with dior homme) still seem to be a hard sell in the states. Another iconic brand in terms of pushing menswear I would give an example of was cloak, which really did have all the elements of a classic male silhouettes and wardrobe and which, from my understanding, was an extremely hard sell outside the big cities like New York and LA. I heard it did very poorly in chicago and non existant in San Francisco. It seems to be a bit of a tug of war between pushing and maintaining a point of view and being "successful" without having to resort to essentially becoming another (arguably boring) high end basics line like APC here in the states.

But then again like I talkeda bout on stylezeitgeist, I might feel this way because I have a warped sense of menswear brands abroad. But I certainly know something different must be going on when labels like CCP and Carpe Diem are around.

[Charlie Delta]

You won't see anything other than high-end basics (if those even) outside of Paris, in France for example.

And I think this goes for every European country.

Get a solid Japanes fanbase and you're set. (I know that is too simplified, but in the end it isn't that far from the truth, I know for a fact that labels such as BLESS and Bernhard Willhelm can exist because of this).

And you might get a Japanese fanbase by sticking your neck out and doing different stuff, even if this will mean that you won't have much business in the first couple of years.

Really I think it has to do with the market, and that maybe (I don't know really) the American male spends differently than for example the European.

It could also have to do with the physical size of the country, and the amount of cities that actually "matter" (when talking about this particular subject).

I'd like to discuss this further, but am quite tired now and I also have my computer working against me. I'd be happy to discuss things over pm aswell.

[RockTheVote]

Duck has a point here. Euro males do care about fashion/outside apperance more than avg american males. It also has something to do w/ the market. More people in the fashion biz/market do not start their business w/ passion of fashion whatsoever (they like fashion, but not turning the passion and vision into it), they start it aiming for money. Afflection, yes, it cheesey, bad fashion, and just bad. Guess how much is the sale total for 1st year? 16 million dollars. I don't think Rag & Bone had a sale like that first year. Most of the brands have at least one "banker." Most bankers do not care about fashion as much as how much is this project going to bring in for him/her. It's sad, but it's real.

This is part of why there is no exciting brands coming out.. everyone is playing safe. I don't believe somebody will do something super fashion forward without care about the life of business. You make the dream come true, but you have to keep the dream running.

[Brienneoftarth]

i'm not sure if any of you are aware of an American designer really and truly pushing the envelope of Menswear in the United States. His name is A. Glennie. his designs would probably go over extremely well with the more avante garde/adventurous Japenese or French markets. you might want to consult him before you launch your brand/store.

[onemancult]

the issues with the american fashion industry and the market here has everything to do with the fact that, compared to europe and even japan, ours is an infant state that has yet to become balanced and stable on its own.

in my opinion, the problem is not the people that are missing from the market, but the perspective that a history of elevated dress provides, and the desire it instills. we don't have that connection to some sort of glittering past- we don't have a connection to anything glittering, really; the most iconic american fashion statements have always stemmed from the power of workman's clothes finding their way into the mainstream.

our king has blistered hands that he tucks into his dungarees, not svelte digits slipped into a leather glove. it just isn't in our cultural bloodline.

EDIT: i, for one, am excited by what isabel toledo has done with stuffy old anne klein. nothing short of amazing.

[wild_whiskey]

Robert Geller

[homi29]

this is a great thread

i think downwithianbrown made a great point

most men outside of the fashion/retail industry have to deal with strict dress codes or at the very least boring workplace standards. I mean when wast he last time you saw someone in a dior suit or cloak jacket at work?

most men in the office , and even women, stick to what is cheap, accesible, and they know. If they get some money they might head into barneys and buy some crap from HUGO BOSS, but anything fashion forward is gonna get them too much attention

add to this the boring and dull office enviroments, the lack of trendsetters anywhere . America no longer has icons except a bunch of talentless fucks that fill US weekly.

i think its part of a bigger cultural decline in this country where everything is mass-marketed and mass-produced. Luckily in Europe and Asia there still is a commitment to artisan's limited-run productions through which design and quality is a priority.

at the end of the day the car and house are much more efficient status symbols for men. Men use this status shit to get laid for the most part. A dior peacoat isnt gonna get you laid nearly as quickly as 5 series.

[mouko]

this is a great thread

i think downwithianbrown made a great point

most men outside of the fashion/retail industry have to deal with strict dress codes or at the very least boring workplace standards. I mean when wast he last time you saw someone in a dior suit or cloak jacket at work?

most men in the office , and even women, stick to what is cheap, accesible, and they know. If they get some money they might head into barneys and buy some crap from HUGO BOSS, but anything fashion forward is gonna get them too much attention

add to this the boring and dull office enviroments, the lack of trendsetters anywhere . America no longer has icons except a bunch of talentless fucks that fill US weekly.

i think its part of a bigger cultural decline in this country where everything is mass-marketed and mass-produced. Luckily in Europe and Asia there still is a commitment to artisan's limited-run productions through which design and quality is a priority.

at the end of the day the car and house are much more efficient status symbols for men, and men this shit to get laid for the most part. A dior peacoat isnt gonna get you laid nearly as quickly as 5 series.

I certainly agree, American fashion is overrun with office attire.

It's very easy to see this if you compare men's fashion magazines around the world. Arguably the biggest menswear magazine in the states is GQ, what do you see in every single issue? Suits. Shirt/tie combos. Dress shoes. Cloak maybe highlighted as a designer bio, but never as a full on spread. A Dior suit will be on the pages, but you'd never find a guy wearing one of the sequined jackets Hedi spat out.

Compare this with Euro and (thank god) Japanese mens magazines where you see Ann D, Rick Owens, Cloak, McQueen.

I see a younger generation of american kids/teens/men getting more into high end fashion (people on this forum for example) I personally attribute this to a lot of the new american icons stepping up their fashion game, for example Kanye West who was raving about Dries Van Noten in the latest complex (I was certainly surprised/pleased). Hopefully this might influence the new generation of menswear consumers to take a little bit more risks with their dress.

[homi29]

as much as some of you hate the streetwear market, i think that is a point of differentiation for youth

streetwear is appealing to people because its so in your face, bright, unavoidable, and attention grabbing.

when you try to use clothing to really stand out and be an individual in the workplace, the typical 'GQ' look isnt gonna cut it

just look at Japan where the line between high-end and streetstyle is very thin, i see that happening when alot of these streetwear kids trade in their nikes for visvims and their evisus for diors 19cms

[mouko]

as much as some of you hate the streetwear market, i think that is a point of differentiation for youth

streetwear is appealing to people because its so in your face, bright, unavoidable, and attention grabbing.

when you try to use clothing to really stand out and be an individual in the workplace, the typical 'GQ' look isnt gonna cut it

just look at Japan where the line between high-end and streetstyle is very thin, i see that happening when alot of these streetwear kids trade in their nikes for visvims and their evisus for diors 19cms

I agree. This is sort of the point I was getting in my last reply. A lot of these kids are looking more into high end labels and blending styles. I think its a great thing. I mean, I know I got my start/interest in fashion via streetwear back in the late 90s/early 2000s when I became friends with a lot of the streetwear shop owners in San Fran.

And this is sort of why I mentioned the new american taste makers. I might get shit for this, but I don't think people can disagree with the fact that a lot of streetwear people get their fashion cues from guys like Pharrell, Jay Z, Kanye, who've gone very "street-savile row" with their fashion. And I think this sorta new interest in luxury is going to push american menswear ahead, and it seems that the direction the younger generation is going towards is more like the Japanese where there is a blending of styles. And where people generally change their looks day to day, at least the japanese people I've come across with great style, one day its punk, one day its a very satorial suit, the next day its streetwear. That's the kind of personal style I really enjoy.

[LA Guy]

In my experience, European and American men, and American men in particular, are by and large willing to experiment with materials, but not with silhouette, and definitely not with color. The youth market is more malleable, but the taste and sophistication level is typically lower, and the price resistance is typically higher, so a Morphine Generation is typically going to do better than a Cloak.

This also explains the general success of Milanese, Parisian and New York lines sell reasonably well in the US, while London, and Tokyo are often relegated to "interesting but unsellable". I think that Vivienne Westwood no longer has any US stockists. It also explains the success of more accessible labels like Maison Margiela (which does well in more conservative cities like Chicago and Washington as well as NYC and LA.)

However, it is obvious that America provides inspiration for a lot of menswear lines around the world, and I think that it would be doing American designers a disservice to dismiss this. If you do a bit of data mining, you will find that American brands like Rag&Bone and Tim Hamilton, and even Engineered Garments, which is properly the American branch of a Japanese company, use keywords like "Heritage", "Classic", and "Auhentic" over and over again. Brands like Band of Outsiders, Nicholas K, John Varvatos, Tom Browne, up-and-coming SPURR, along with the brands already mentioned, all invoke some image of a mythic America. European and Japanese brands take great advantage of these images as well. Henry Cottons, Woolrich (Europe), Faconnable, all borrow freely from the Americana landscape. And iconic pieces of clothing like the M65 and the button-down oxford shirt turn up everywhere.

In response to the OP's last post, I think that it would be very innovative label, to blend styles, and not in the half-assed way that so many LA based cut-and-sew have done (lame graphics of overdesigned tees), or in the "let's make tailored goods more flash, the way Sean John seems to want to do.

Instead, it would be great to see a label that puts of very streetwear pieces alongside unadulterated classic pieces. That would be really fresh. I would love to see a label that shows a beautifully cut, simple, peacoat over a Chrome Hearts style hoodie. So, not the Japanese way where the outfit is coherent (Monday = streetwear, Tuesday=rock-and-roll, Wednesday=tailored clothing, etc...) but in the much more organic American style of dressing, where a lot of disparate pieces are brought together in one outfit.

[eric glennie]

Good evening! I have been working on instilling different styling for menswear for years. Men love to run with pack and want to look the same and thrive on conforming to the crowd. Women are different and want to separate themselves from the crowd. If another woman is wearing the same or similar outfit , guaranteed she is slipping out the back to get another dress on. The american culture is about acceptance and those who challenge traditional menswear are ridiculed back into acceptance. Please take a look at the style forum and see how brutal traditional menswear can be. You said I was being defensive in a previous thread. Sometimes you need to come out swinging and stand by your product. That is not defensive, but confidence. Believe in your product, have something new to add to american fashion ( dont be an imitator), and work the media. The media can make or break you. Get an editors attention, negotiate advertisment space at the magazines/ newpapers and let people know you care about your passion. What are you working on? Thanks EG.

[poly800rock]

i think that for excitement in the states to ensue, you need to break into somewhere like europe or japan first, then bring it back. being just another american brand does nothing for anyone really, the sad truth. and us stupid americans think things like "base control" are really exciting. It's the sad fact that americans are somewhat spoiled by the multitude of things we have. it's similar in almost everything, take music for example. the last real big hype band were the strokes who broke in england before coming back to the US before getting huge.

[onemancult]

alternatively, i think you're in the right place to break Leon through the wall. all of the recent memorable american labels have been new york based...albeit, they've mostl;y been in womenswear, but you can't discount biggies like thom browne.

edit: my heart still cries when i realize that for whatever reason im disallowed from commenting at yr LJ. was it that ask me questions post? i was not trying to be an ahole, i intended it to be more of a whimsical thing, but hey...

[mouko]

alternatively, i think you're in the right place to break Leon through the wall. all of the recent memorable american labels have been new york based...albeit, they've mostl;y been in womenswear, but you can't discount biggies like thom browne.

edit: my heart still cries when i realize that for whatever reason im disallowed from commenting at yr LJ. was it that ask me questions post? i was not trying to be an ahole, i intended it to be more of a whimsical thing, but hey...

Sorry, when you commented at that time I was getting mad hate from silly kids on LJ communities I used to be a member of. So anything annoying I blocked.

All the "fashion" communities were more interested in starting drama than discussing fashion..and since I am generally passionate about my work/hobbies, everyone singled me out as some sort of pretentious faux-expert. What's your LJ? I'll add you.

[nairb49]

mouko, whats your handle on SZ?

[mouko]

mouko, whats your handle on SZ?

therapysessions

[Liberation1945]

for some reason i always associated cloak with europe...just so different than what most american designers were offering.

from my experience, i think the general public is warming up to different styles(proportions, specific pieces, whole outfits) at a rapid speed. as mouko said, musicians like jayz and kanye west have played a big role in this as fans adapt to their role models' styles and the community as a whole warms up to new ideas. more and more kids let go of the sloppy, baggy clothes and started getting into more fitted clothing, abandoned the thought that shopping is "gay", etcetc. While many into high-end fashion shit on chain stores like h&m, i think stores like h&m are a crucial part of stimulating creativity/diversity/interest in fashion - a lot of people simply can't afford the high-end stuff, but why should they not be allowed to achieve the look they are going for?

the trainsition stages(and how he mixes/matches) of a guy getting into fashion is always a lot cooler to see than the guy who is draped in rick owens and annd. where do you go from there? no doubt it's good stuff, but the all black gets boring at times.

fuck...i dont know if im even making sense or if this shit pertains to this topic.