Hair Thread

[TPR950H]

my haircut costs $7 before tip.  so either $9 or $10 after tip if im feeling spendy.

[kH0yA Sw@Gp0o]

i didn't do a thing to my hair once i started growing it. no maintenance (except for the very obvious shampoo/conditioner/once a week treatment [sometimes]), no product, no cutting either. grew it out for more than a year before getting a trim to even out the ends and sort of reel it in. 
my hair's thick & curly tho. was doing some kind of "jewfro" for a while before it dropped under its own weight. nowadays it's been weighing itself down more:
down and shoved under a hat (yes is v far away lol)

pulled back as default


really once you get to a length you like it turns into a sort of plateau i feel. not like i want to do anything extreme to my hair at the moment nor do i want to tinker with crazy tying/styling methods at the moment so it's really just... this. all there is to do now is see where it goes past this point and get the occasional trim 

[TPR950H]

if i could grow decent facial hair.. i would have long hair.

[skeetinmynose]

How do you manage the cost? Work out a deal with a local barber/shop, a friend, etc. ?

Learn to cut your own hair if you're planning the shaved side samoori shounen boi look

[on-display]

I decided to grow out my hair. Since I have asian hair you either leave the sides short or grow it out long. This shit is the worst. 

[FiggRow]

Yes. Yes it is. I haven't cut mine in around 11 months and its growing very very slowly. I wear headgear every day, another year till it might look ok hopefully

[ninetynine]

[Kale Kohai]

Been meaning to shave my head for a while. Question is how to not look like an oi skinhead once I do it. Any advice?

[skeetinmynose]

Buy an MA-1 and just go for the look. You already have some curb stompers.

[Kale Kohai]

Haha I've been on the look out for an MA-1 too. It must be a sign. 

[fobsquad]

Been meaning to shave my head for a while. Question is how to not look like an oi skinhead once I do it. Any advice?

try not shaving it to the skin and letting it grow out a week or so

[Kale Kohai]

try not shaving it to the skin and letting it grow out a week or so

Thats what i'm thinking. Maybe like the same length as Woody's hair in the original "This is England"

[HPM]

hairdresser warcrimed me

it goes all the way around

[jamokes]

jamokes, thanks for the reply, glad there's an exchange going on. this is a subject i'm interested in, though only obliquely. i'll refrain from using hyperbole since it obscures my points a bit. i think you've misinterpreted some of the main parts of my argument, i'll try re-iterate and make it clearer. my position is: yes there is an abundance of different beauty standards (which i personally think should be preserved/continue), but counter to this is an increasing standardisation of a few specific forms which is driven by social circumstances more so than evolutionary ones.

 

it's been my pleasure! i just wish this community didn't actively discourage discussions of the political variety

 

i stand by what i said about how difficult it is to draw a line between those circumstances, but in any case, globalization has brought that standardization upon us

what we must ask ourselves is how and why it's happened

has globalization enforced that standardization by making it socially advantageous to adopt those standards? has globalization introduced standards to demographics that previously didn't have access to them? if those demographics begin to prefer the global standards to their own, are they doing so because the global standards are associated with authority and advancement? is it impossible for those demographics to develop such preferences for any reason beyond the social advantages?

why have tomatoes and peppers become integral to so many cuisines? they're native to the new world and have been widely cultivated outside of it for only a few centuries

 

you cite some models/actors that have a marginal presence among a, to some extent, homogenous majority. it is also somewhat telling that non of these models/actors look anything like their indigenous counter parts of their original hereditary (im making the case assuming they aren't of mixed heritage, they probably are).

 

what countries are you referring to? i couldn't say what aline's heritage is since she's from the cultural mosaic that is brazil and has released no information about her origins

karreuche is african and vietnamese, and while africa isn't a country, i suppose the darkest sudanese people come to mind before the fairest somali people in cases like this

propensities like that relate to the reductiveness i mentioned

 

back to the korean and asian (eyes, nose, jaw) surgery point: i think you're right in mentioning the point about chasing youth. but it doesn't really hold validity when you really interpret what's going on with the changes in morphological features of their face: no where in any biological history does a person's eye structure change; you don't suddenly grow a freaking bridge in your nose or have your jaw completely restructured (unless you're male) in the course of age change. 

 

when someone says another person looks younger or older than they really are, their judgement is based on what they associate those features with, and while there must be people who do think someone would look abnormally old if they have nasolabial folds or something like that, it isn't because they've carefully inspected a proper sample of the population and had no choice but to conclude certain features spontaneously occur as we age and are generally restricted to older people 

whether or not they realize it, people associate proportionately small eyes, large noses, and large jaws with age

i think the structure of the eyes is relevant mainly because it has an effect on the perceived size of the eyes, and i can think of many reasons why people of any ethnicity would find relatively large and round eyes to be ideal

even after surgery, most koreans have eyes that are unmistakably those of an asian person

i've also heard the size and narrowness of the eyes along with the size of the pupils plays a part in determining how trustworthy a person is thought to be, and i now see that reflected by countless illustrations and written descriptions of fictional characters originating from a large variety of cultures and periods

 

unfortunately, there isn't much to draw conclusions from when trying to determine what the most desired people looked like centuries ago in asia

illustrations from that era aren't very useful because they're stylized representations of the subjects they depict while cameras were rare and primitive

according to written descriptions, a small face was and still is seen as ideal for women, and i suppose larger eyes will make the face itself appear to be smaller in comparison

chinese people have repeatedly described attractive eyes as being clear and bright, so perhaps the larger surface allows more light to be reflected

 

why is this certain 'idealised' face available to so few koreans, genetically and financially? why do they look so different compared to the undoctored populace? why would their face look so exceptional if they were to be transported 150 years ago, before the contact of the west? I'm not sure there is much more convincing to do when you completely dismiss the social influence of these changes. also, practicing occidentalism does not need to be intentional or even conscious.

realistically, you could ask the same thing about people of any nationality

it's what separates the masses from the idols

however, it's worth nothing that there are plenty of korean idols and fewer commoners who have never had cosmetic surgery yet display many if not all of the characteristics valued by their society

i believe those are the individuals koreans are trying to emulate when they go under the knife

being exceptional doesn't necessarily mean being attractive, but i'd wager they would be seen as exceptionally attractive by the majority so long as they still had access to the modern cosmetic products they rely on

while i believe the results of such operations are usually eerie and too easily recognized as products of surgery, i can understand why other people would overlook the clumsier aspects

ultimately, i doubt they would be regarded as epitomes of beauty, but i'd be very surprised if they didn't appeal to most of the people they met

 

sexual dimorphism is a good topic, that can earn a separate discussion. but i'll try make some precursory notes. besides the main things like height and weight ratio between the sexes (also voice and jawline etc.), sexual dimorphism in its exaggerated form is not so prevalent across cultures and across subcultures. taken to its extreme it can be very ugly, think hypermasculinity (body builder, jay cutler) and hyperfeminity (XXXXL boob surgery). again the social specificity must be stressed. most high fashion models of both genders are very androgynous, bodliy composition especially. Paul Boche is a really succesful male runway model, someone likes him. put him on the show jersey shore, and i don't think his looks will be well received. sure, overall as an aggregate, the athletic body is the ideal. but given that there's a strong liking for large range -- thin to overweight, muscly to svelte -- i don't think any scientifically framed argument can account for it.

 

the social component takes precedence in this argument of attraction and beauty, i'm not sure if i can try convince you any further.

 

i apologize for giving the impression that i reject the idea of social currents playing any role in preferences because they do play a role, and that's undeniable

i'll acknowledge the importance of the social component, but i don't see how it takes precedence over everything else

in the grand scheme of things, it's normally minor and occasionally negligible as it almost always manifests in the form of brief trends which have little if anything to do with fixed features

your comment regarding paul and jersey shore is a good reminder of that because almost all men can darken their skin, build muscle, and use hair gel

paul is an attractive man, and i think even the citizens of new jersey's coast would recognize his attractiveness despite the fact that he would look hilariously out of place next to them

it's easy to say he's androgynous when you see him wearing foundation and feminine clothing, but i encourage you to observe his appearance in an unadulterated state

his fundamental features are so masculine that i'd expect him to be readily identified as a man even if he were to dress and groom himself like a woman typically would

in my neck of the woods, few women would care about how brawny he is or isn't because he has broad shoulders, slim hips, tall stature, and a thousand little details pushing his appearance into masculine territory; we all know heterosexual women can appreciate different levels of adiposity and muscularity in men, but how many of them have a liking for proportions which resemble those of men affected by klinefelter syndrome?

many of the features required or preferred by the industry in question are primarily generated by testosterone, so female models of that variety are certainly less conventionally attractive than their male peers are

 

"the comments i typically encounter which address how ethnicity impacts attractiveness strike me as reductive at best and resentful at worst"

am i interpreting this correctly as:

"some people say certain ethnicities/races are more attractive than others, and this strikes me as reductive and resentful "   ?

if that is the case, then i agree, and it is NOT what my argument was about in the previous post.

i'm saying: there are different beauty standards, especially across cultures, subcultures and histories, but, there is a social element that standardises some specific forms of beauty on an aggregate level, and as a result some ethnicities get celebrated and some ethnicities get downplayed.

 

it's a divisive matter, so it seems like nearly everyone takes a fairly predictable side

to be honest, i don't know if you take either side

 

there's a group of people who believe certain characteristics have been glorified mainly due to the dominance of european cultures

they believe particular proportions and colorations are widely preferred merely because they're associated with caucasian people

another group insists caucasian people are the inarguable pinnacle of beauty and that any attractive person who isn't caucasian is only attractive because they appear to be caucasian or have caucasian ancestors 

it's as if most people view ethnicity as some kind of spectrum! alas, extremely complicated concepts such as this have inevitably been vulgarized by the bulk of the populace

 

you mention hygiene, health and youth. i've suggested before, that these are correct mentions, but they are incredibly trivial and obvious to point out. when i listed 'nice teeth, nice skin' i could of been more exhaustive. 

you believe science can quantify beauty. this can be done, so long as you keep to the most trivial aspects: symmetry, nice hair, nice skin, nice breath, all limbs in tact. it's clear it can't ever account for the large variance of appreciation for other physiological features. a messy science that can make no predictions or generalisations beyond the trivial is a science like astrology.

less obvious is what exactly signifies health or youth and what exactly makes skin or hair nice

 

if anything, it's a field of established sciences, and while the legitimacy of psychology and sociology as sciences has been questioned by many people, comparing it to astrology is absolutely absurd

you can't attribute such specific patterns to the forer effect

 

 

funny note on the computer mediated beauty correction (which, by the way is an algorithm, as in, a set of instructions written by a subjective human being). me and a few friends thought it would be good sport to go into one of them japanese photo booths (purika?). the experience of getting the photos taken was all fun and games, but when the printed results came out we said "wtf??". the computer enforced this 'eye enlargement' on everyones eyes. i'm aware these pics are supposed to be exaggerated and fun, but the result was more disturbing than cute. ... i could not compute.. science please help me..

 

all technology available to us is ultimately at the mercy of people, but i don't see that as a weakness unless the technology fails meet its objectives

what do you think of the examples? do you think the software succeeded in making the faces more attractive? do you think most people would say it succeeded?

the software employed by those booths is designed to compliment a few specific styles, so the effects of its stylization can be exceptionally unsettling and amusing when the subjects aren't a part of the usual audience

 

 

 

also a book recc, that i'm sure you'd very much like: 'pricing beauty' by ashley mears. not entirely related to what we're discussing, but it does touch upon it. she makes a really good typology of some subsets of the modelling industry. the one i remember most was the 'high fashion editorial' models -- how they are not conventional looking, how they push the boundries a bit (think, julia nobis). this was compared to the glamour/mainstream models (kate upton).

 

i just read the first chapter, and now i'm hooked! what you mentioned made me wonder if it would just be a book of echoes, but i now see why you recommended it

Edited April 16, 2014 by jamokes

[jamokes]

HPM, did you say anything to the stylist? i'm very cowardly about my hair, so i rarely ask for anything more risky than a trim, but i have had a very bad experience which ended in a conversation with the owner of the salon
 
if you explain the situation to the owner or manager, you may be able to get a free haircut in the future

[HPM]

didn't notice until I got home

[gettoasty]

^i hate that. another 2 weeks wait for hair to return to "normal."

 

Made a vow to trim sides only and grow out top to a length where I can slick back or do decent side part.

 

i'm still not consistent in asking for a haircut and getting what i want. results are 50/50 still..

[Kale Kohai]

Well I manned up and went skinhead 

[Calbeee]

so i have been growing the top of my hair.my bangs go all the way to my chin now, or a little above that.  when i dont have product on it and im hanging around at home, it is killing me.  for some reason i cant have it stay slicked up naturally (probably my asian hair).  i see a lot of people do top knots, is my hair long enough to do this?  can't seem to do it properly or don't know how to do it

[onek]

is there a way of getting clippers to cut shorter than a #1 without goin full bald?

[skeetinmynose]

Does your clipper have an adjustable lever?

[sunny D]

Well I manned up and went skinhead 

DUUUUDE

if you the guy i am thinking of that Schad said looked a bit like fixes computers, it was a tad true

 

as much as coming from a random GUY on the INTERNET, you really fucking rock the bald look 1000000 times better,

really does suit you

 

 

NO HOMO

[Kale Kohai]

DUUUUDE

if you the guy i am thinking of that Schad said looked a bit like fixes computers, it was a tad true

 

as much as coming from a random GUY on the INTERNET, you really fucking rock the bald look 1000000 times better,

really does suit you

 

 

NO HOMO

 

Ha thats me. Thanks mate! I'm loving it. Don't think ill ever go back to hair

[aymerikmd]

Well I manned up and went skinhead 

look really good man, remind me of my skinhead look last summer too haha.

on another note i really like the hairstyle of that guy from the left, dude from the band lust for youth.

[onek]

Does your clipper have an adjustable lever?

yah, ive been using it at the closest shave level with the #1 guard. is the final level no guard?

[ninetynine]

no guard should be triple 0

 

there are 0 and double 0 guards available

[sunny D]

do people use different shampoo and conditioner if their hair is long thick and they a man

[Arwhyayen]

tried out the imperial gel pomade. smells lush and you have to use a huge amount for it take effect (for me anyway). Still prefer cream products and my hairbond is much better, but here's what it looks like after 'generous' use:

[Kale Kohai]

Looks like it has a lot of gloss. Probably should go with something that is more matte to avoid the guido look if you're going to work your hair up like that. Imperial also makes a nice matte molding gel that smells really good. 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Littlest Senpai

[Arwhyayen]

true. first time I have used so much of a product and the gloss is something that isn't going to happen everytime. But wanted something kind like this: