HARDCORE SAVED MY LIFE

[Guest jmatsu]

NOU was style over substance.

are you saying that the music was bad, while they were stylish? i've read this nonbeliver quote somewhere. anyway if not for them, your precious refused wouldn't even exist.

refused totally shamlessly emulated nou. just as their next band, noise conspiracy (or whatever)emulated make-up. then the swedes made some fucking mc5 band.

[american_hearts]

I listened to NOU when I was 14, but for some pretty half-hearted reasons -- I liked their style influences, their politics made for good catch-phrases, it felt rebellious and punk rock and subculture-y in all the ways NOFX and their ilk couldn't be.

I saw the same in Refused when they came out and that was the initial pull. I know Refused loved NOU, you know it -- it's never been a secret. NOU ripped off all their style influences, too, and it's odd that you'd ignore that. Anyway, their music was a footnote. From a musician's perspective, it didn't sound like they gave a shit -- plus the sound just wasn't for me. In the end, I never did get into most of the punk coming out of D.C. On SOPTC, Refused reminded me of Snapcase, etc, but took it to a whole new level. Blew my mind -- in the end, I sold my NOU records midway through college while I still listen to this Refused record weekly. New Noise may have sold them to the nu-metal crowd -- fine. I'm happy with my choice.

[Guest jmatsu]

I listened to NOU when I was 14, but for some pretty half-hearted reasons -- I liked their style influences, their politics made for good catch-phrases, it felt rebellious and punk rock and subculture-y in all the ways NOFX and their ilk couldn't be.

NOU ripped off all their style influences, too, and it's odd that you'd ignore that. QUOTE]

"their" refers to refused's style influences? which were?

also think about the time line!

[american_hearts]

Jesus Christ. No. Just, no.

NOU co-opted their whole look and sound. MC5. The 60's Beat movement. The Situationalists of the 70s. I'm not telling you anything new.

Refused never would have gone from their earlier chugga-chugga records to making Shape if not for stumbling on those NOU records. But they didn't rip them off so much as pulled from Nation's own influences to create their take.

Basically, it comes down to the decision to dress in suits. Musically speaking, there're no similarities besides any brief jazz interludes. Politically, Refused took a serious and pointedly Socialist route as opposed to NOU's tongue-in-cheek stance, which was vague, 'sassy' and all very wink-wink.

[Guest jmatsu]

Jesus Christ. No. Just, no.

NOU co-opted their whole look and sound. MC5. The 60's Beat movement. The Situationalists of the 70s. I'm not telling you anything new.

Refused never would have gone from their earlier chugga-chugga records to making Shape if not for stumbling on those NOU records. But they didn't rip them off so much as pulled from Nation's own influences to create their take.

Basically, it comes down to the decision to dress in suits. Musically speaking, there're no similarities besides any brief jazz interludes. Politically, Refused took a serious and pointedly Socialist route as opposed to NOU's tongue-in-cheek stance, which was vague, 'sassy' and all very wink-wink.

you could argue all of these subtle minute (pro-refursed) intricacies as to your liberal claim of "they didn't rip them off as so much as pulled from Nation's own influences to create their take." the time duration was just too insultingly short in my opinion.

we could say the same for example hedi slimane, if he found a timemachine started making all his dh crap at a close/similiar time period as the mods/ or depending on what season the teddy boys or mclaren's sex. it seems to me that refused were on ian svenious and crew's dicks.

[american_hearts]

again -- the music was completely different. politics were different. Refused saw something they liked and used it as a springboard. I don't fault Nation for sounding like Fugazi or working off of a D.C. model. Refused, at the very least, didn't live in the same town as their influences.

Anyhow, if it comes down to a personal preference it's good enough to leave it at that. You liked NOU first and better so it left a bad taste? For me, there were enough differences to keep the two seperate.

[Guest jmatsu]

again -- the music was completely different. politics were different. Refused saw something they liked and used it as a springboard. I don't fault Nation for sounding like Fugazi or working off of a D.C. model. Refused, at the very least, didn't live in the same town as their influences.

Anyhow, if it comes down to a personal preference it's good enough to leave it at that. You liked NOU first and better so it left a bad taste? For me, there were enough differences to keep the two seperate.

you can't fault nou for sounding like fugazi, because they didn't. even if they did (like you stated), they are both dc/discord band from dc. fucking guy piccato from fugazi (or whatever) produced nou. so you're right, you can't fault them.

i fault refused for making some sellout change and basically copying nou. that's my opinion. done.

[poly800rock]

fuck this shit, it's all about skewbald.

[american_hearts]

you can't fault nou for sounding like fugazi, because they didn't. even if they did (like you stated), they are both dc/discord band from dc. fucking guy piccato from fugazi (or whatever) produced nou. so you're right, you can't fault them.

i fault refused for making some sellout change and basically copying nou. that's my opinion. done.

LOL UR DUM!

[Guest jmatsu]

LOL UR DUM!

and your knowledge about punk/hardcore is either very limited or very naive.

lol you are even dumbER.

[american_hearts]

time for bed. believe it or not, nice to talk about nou/refused either way...i'm interested to give plays pretty for baby another listen as its been at least several years.

[poly800rock]

and your knowledge about punk/hardcore is either very limited or very naive.

lol you are even dumbER.

i really think the time period when you get into these bands make a huge difference.....Shape of punk to come...good, yeah, sure, more interesting than 99% of the garbage passed off as punk. Life changing, not really. The reason why for me is b/c I was out of that stuff when Shape came out. I'm sure if I was only listening to punk/hardcore at that time I'd say otherwise, but I'm with jmatsu on this, NOU was a better band.

[american_hearts]

At any rate, they'd both appreciate this discussion taking place between a group of global shopping experts. And I agree -- time period can be everything.

[Guest jmatsu]

i really think the time period when you get into these bands make a huge difference.....Shape of punk to come...good, yeah, sure, more interesting than 99% of the garbage passed off as punk. Life changing, not really. The reason why for me is b/c I was out of that stuff when Shape came out. I'm sure if I was only listening to punk/hardcore at that time I'd say otherwise, but I'm with jmatsu on this, NOU was a better band.

not to flog a dead horse, but with someone that generally seems to understands these kinds of perimeters, i really do enjoy chatting about this. i def think that nou is a better band, stylistically and musically. this was not the argument though.

my love affair with punk/hardcore/whatever was def over before shape of punk... (i'm 31, i'm sure you're around my age), but the cover, linernotes, and lyrics while not exactly copying nou was still like an insult. the fucking poster of thelonious monk on their wall?!? wtf?

"the shape of punk to come?!?" nou's "the shape of jazz to come," was that a coincidence? obviously the politics were different, but i feel that refused did what i did in college papers. they changed enough of their music/style/politics just to avoid plagerism.

i am again going to dwelve into another yet similar subject, but too me it was the same for makeup and noise conspiracy.

[jpgm]

converge also, haven't been to one of their concerts, but i've heard its basically a fistfight during the saddest day.

i had the absolute privelege of seeing and playing alongside converge last night. what a fucking show :eek:

they played a good mix of old and new....from petitioning the empty sky onwards.....they even played 'my great devastator' from the ANb split. encore was 'saddest day'....seriously intense. there was people flying all over the place, dudes stage diving straight onto their faces and shit!

amazing amazing amazing

[denimdestroyedmylife]

"the shape of punk to come?!?" nou's "the shape of jazz to come," was that a coincidence? obviously the politics were different, but i feel that refused did what i did in college papers. they changed enough of their music/style/politics just to avoid plagerism.

just to make things less confusing:

shape of jazz to come: ornette coleman

sound of jazz to come: NOU

shape of punk to come: refused

[julianREE]

i had the absolute privelege of seeing and playing alongside converge last night. what a fucking show :eek:

they played a good mix of old and new....from petitioning the empty sky onwards.....they even played 'my great devastator' from the ANb split. encore was 'saddest day'....seriously intense. there was people flying all over the place, dudes stage diving straight onto their faces and shit!

amazing amazing amazing

nice! i still need to go to one of their concerts...

i checked out your band myspace, it's not bad. at least theres another metalhead on this forum!

[neverletdown]

yeah south by southwest! free sparks and whiskey was devastating. i dont know how i survived.

my saturday in chronological order:

carbonas

deerhunter

fucked up/keith morris cameo

david cross

sloan

hatebreed

architechs

coliseum

hot cross

against me (on a roof)

carbonas (bridge)

fucked up(bridge)

[neverletdown]

oh, +1 to the acme and starkweather mentions. any love here for ire, groundwork, or overcast?

[Larry Bird]

^^^^

awww overcast. i gots some stuff on a cd from edison....good heavy stuff.

thought about going to southbysouthwest, but didnt feel like paying this year and probably couldnt take off enough days from work...was it good? crowded? i saw some of it on direct tv for free of all places.. no lifetime like last year though.

[Guest jmatsu]

just to make things less confusing:

shape of jazz to come: ornette coleman

sound of jazz to come: NOU

shape of punk to come: refused

yeah most of us knew this. nou was the first "punk" band to bring back this "fringe" jazz title. just like the jam brought back modernist shit in the midst of 77' punk. weller had the revamping vision and no one gives him shit for being on the who's dick.

dude, you know exactly what i mean. no need to play mediator. check my dh-timemachine rant.

[mizanation]

gordon from BiG recommended bad brains and it's quickly become one of my favorite bands of all time. brilliant shit. i am taking suggestions for my second hardcore band to listen to.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

yeah most of us knew this. nou was the first "punk" band to bring back this "fringe" jazz title. just like the jam brought back modernist shit in the midst of 77' punk. weller had the revamping vision and no one gives him shit for being on the who's dick.

dude, you know exactly what i mean. no need to play mediator. check my dh-timemachine rant.

i have no idea what yr saying; i don't play that; if i wanted to read i'd go to school

[Guest jmatsu]

i have no idea what yr saying; i don't play that; if i wanted to read i'd go to school

i guess i seriously overestimated you (yeah, i know you don't give two fucks).

[neverletdown]

^^^^

awww overcast. i gots some stuff on a cd from edison....good heavy stuff.

thought about going to southbysouthwest, but didnt feel like paying this year and probably couldnt take off enough days from work...was it good? crowded? i saw some of it on direct tv for free of all places.. no lifetime like last year though.

yeah, it was pretty great. i saw a much more diverse selection of bands when i went two years ago, but i had a lot of fun with the younger dudes i went with this year. met lots of people, got to explore the city, it was great! paying for the wristband is a huge ripoff, i only had to pay for one show and it was just $10. there is so much free stuff happening, you really just have to spend money getting there.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

jmatsu

i'm baffled! for what were you estimating me?

:confused:

i don't understand your point at all

something about refused being derivative of NOU

jmatsu: 1

ddml: ?

link me up to the time machine, i must be missing something

[Guest jmatsu]

jmatsu

i'm baffled! for what were you estimating me?

:confused:

i don't understand your point at all

something about refused being derivative of NOU

jmatsu: 1

ddml: ?

not to be all e-stalker, but from what i can recall alot of your old posts about punk/hardcore and they have always been on point (or at least i thought so). too me the nou vs. refused crap is a no brainer.

[poly800rock]

gordon from BiG recommended bad brains and it's quickly become one of my favorite bands of all time. brilliant shit. i am taking suggestions for my second hardcore band to listen to.

at age 30 you're getting into hardcore? whoa. any of the DC stuff will suffice. Minor Threat, Gov't Issue, Skewbald, any of the old Dischord bands. "a year in 7's" is a very good comp. From there just go regional. Personally still the only band out of that area that sounds as good as it did when i first heard it in 95 or so (they're from early 80's) is the Proletariat from Boston. The lyrics are over the top political/socialist, but are even relevant now. Musically, they're very unique and they don't have to play fast for you to be impressed. They used to play with Mission of Burma all the time before they brokeup and reformed if that means anything to you as far as musical influences go. PM me if you want stuff.

[mizanation]

i ain't 30 yet, youngin. got a couple more years to go.

thanks for the suggestions, poly.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

not to be all e-stalker, but from what i can recall alot of your old posts about punk/hardcore and they have always been on point (or at least i thought so). too me the nou vs. refused crap is a no brainer.

i agree with you, hence my confusion