guitar amps and guitars

[operationjake]

I'm not a big fan of epiphones, except for the elitist series, but none of what you said was remotely accurate. My biggest complaint with epiphones is that they feel cheap, the finish is plasticy and the fretboard isn't the best wood, but with a good set of pickups I highly doubt you would be able to tell the difference. The idea that a gigging guitarist must play an american made guitar is total bs. I've heard amazing players get amazing tones with korean made Schecters and LTDs. 'Serious' players use whatever works, if you can find an epiphone that feels as good or better than a Gibson by all means buy it. Throw in some nice pickups and you're set, why spend money you don't have to

And you don't always get what you pay for, especially Gibsons. A new LP Custom is almost $4000 now, which is completely ridiculous. For that much money you could get a Suhr, an Anderson, or several PRS's or Hamers. All of those companies use higher quality materials and have much tighter quality control than Gibson

sure it depends on the player, but in this specific category i was referring to not metal or hard rock. i've played schecters and esp's and i find both repugnant. one of the cases being active pickups, outside of a bass guitar, are annoying as fuck. i still stand by the fact that is you are going to play and gig hard, an american made guitar (or similar quality, wherever the fuck it is made) is your STAPLE. but obviously to each his own, the aforementioned is just me chiming in.

and no, you do get what you pay for with gibson. some people want the absolutely beautiful guitar with obsessive details that play like similar guitars half (or even more than half) of the cost. for a person obsessing over specific details on a crazy custom shop LP to put away in a case an ebay 40 years later, they do get what they pay for. and also, for that money you get plenty of better guitars (several PRSes you say? i say no, if you know what type of PRS to buy). you're also buying the name, the reliability, the warranty, the last and resell value.

i've played plenty of guitars and i'll stick to being a gibson guy because their guitars fit me best.

[Phishphood]

sure it depends on the player, but in this specific category i was referring to not metal or hard rock. i've played schecters and esp's and i find both repugnant. one of the cases being active pickups, outside of a bass guitar, are annoying as fuck. i still stand by the fact that is you are going to play and gig hard, an american made guitar (or similar quality, wherever the fuck it is made) is your STAPLE. but obviously to each his own, the aforementioned is just me chiming in.

and no, you do get what you pay for with gibson. some people want the absolutely beautiful guitar with obsessive details that play like similar guitars half (or even more than half) of the cost. for a person obsessing over specific details on a crazy custom shop LP to put away in a case an ebay 40 years later, they do get what they pay for. and also, for that money you get plenty of better guitars (several PRSes you say? i say no, if you know what type of PRS to buy). you're also buying the name, the reliability, the warranty, the last and resell value.

i've played plenty of guitars and i'll stick to being a gibson guy because their guitars fit me best.

I don't understand your idea that a non american made guitar is going to fall apart. Epiphones may feel cheap, but they're not going to disintegrate if you take them to a gig. And if you're talking about minutely detailed LPs the ESP custom shop does that better than Gibson. The bookmatching on the Navigators is so accurate you can't even see the seam, and Gibson QC is quite awful outside of the custom shop (the real custom shop, not the one where they make the hollowbodies)

And buying any new guitar with the expectation of in appreciating in value is just ridiculous, unless you're talking special limited edition runs/replicas, and even then its not a very sound investment. Besides, I thought you talking about guitars for serious players, not collectors. Resale value isnt nearly what you make it out to be. You can get a used LP Custom, or even Historics for $2000. Those guitars cost $3000-$4000 new. Warranty is a non issue, every other manufacturer has that, but I will agree that you're paying for the name. Which is very important because everyone knows the letters on the headstock determine how good a guitar sounds

"(several PRSes you say? i say no, if you know what type of PRS to buy)."

What does this mean? Are you saying that only the expensive PRS's are good? You realize that 10 tops and birds contribute absolutely nothing to the quality right? A used Standard 22/24 can do everything a Custom can.

I find this funny, because usually I'm the one trashing epiphones. Again, they feel cheap and for slightly more money you could get an Orville or a Tokai or an Edwards that will blow most Epis out of the water. But I refuse to buy into the "Only a Gibson is good enough" bs

[jeepster]

p90s or p100's, doesn't matter. cheapest Gibson LP Special I can get, heritage cherry or tv yellow, doesn't matter.

ebay it. You can probably find them in worn black/brown since they did a run of them. Probably between $450-$600 if you find a bargain on ebay.

[operationjake]

I don't understand your idea that a non american made guitar is going to fall apart. Epiphones may feel cheap, but they're not going to disintegrate if you take them to a gig. And if you're talking about minutely detailed LPs the ESP custom shop does that better than Gibson. The bookmatching on the Navigators is so accurate you can't even see the seam, and Gibson QC is quite awful outside of the custom shop (the real custom shop, not the one where they make the hollowbodies)

And buying any new guitar with the expectation of in appreciating in value is just ridiculous, unless you're talking special limited edition runs/replicas, and even then its not a very sound investment. Besides, I thought you talking about guitars for serious players, not collectors. Resale value isnt nearly what you make it out to be. You can get a used LP Custom, or even Historics for $2000. Those guitars cost $3000-$4000 new. Warranty is a non issue, every other manufacturer has that, but I will agree that you're paying for the name. Which is very important because everyone knows the letters on the headstock determine how good a guitar sounds

"(several PRSes you say? i say no, if you know what type of PRS to buy)."

What does this mean? Are you saying that only the expensive PRS's are good? You realize that 10 tops and birds contribute absolutely nothing to the quality right? A used Standard 22/24 can do everything a Custom can.

I find this funny, because usually I'm the one trashing epiphones. Again, they feel cheap and for slightly more money you could get an Orville or a Tokai or an Edwards that will blow most Epis out of the water. But I refuse to buy into the "Only a Gibson is good enough" bs

ahahah. i love the inferring that's going on.

first of all i would like to say that out of all the guitars i have played i prefer gibson because of MY EXPERIENCE. to state blandly, i've snapped the neck of an epi before... while playing. that was my last experience with them (i had previously owned 2 guitars from them). i would also like to call you on the quality control out of nashville being bad... have you checked? i've owned an SG standard and a firebird studio and the quality from both was 10/10. no paint flakes, no knots in the wood, etc.

now, i never said someone would want to have his guitar APPRECIATE IN VALUE. that's where you're assuming things. i merely said resale value, as in the resale value of a car. gibson's undoubtedly have one of the best resale values of any guitar makers (notice i said ONE OF THE BEST, there's definitely a few out there that make gem guitars). additionally, much to your surprise, guitars can appreciate in value. try buying a vintage fender/gibson from the 60's/70's. i'm guessing you'd pay just a tadddd more than what they cost in their day. oh, and i am talking about guitars for players not collectors... you brought up the $4000 LPs, remember?

for me warranty is quite an issue because i like dealing with someone who is going to work with me. in my experience, schecter, ltd and plenty of other "like" brands assume you did something wrong with the guitar and that's why there's a "problem." uh, fuck now, the company just produced a guitar that didn't perform.

lastly, um... unless you get a steal, a 9.5/10 standard PRS is worth maybe $1900 or $1800, depending on production date. sooooooo... yeah, semantically you can buy several (i.e., TWO) PRS guitars for the price of an expensive gibson. (and just a note, i've toured the PRS factory in stevensville maryland. the customs, as explained by the tour guide, are quite better than the standards, but the standards are still great. oh, and by "if you know what PRS guitar to get" i was referring to everything but their SE, korean made series which are a shame to the name of PRS, albeit tenfold better than epi's).

once again, i'm not trying to say THIS IS LAW. but in my experience, and though i have not dealt with every company (or even a fourth), i like gibson. they perform, they have the tone i want, they're not assholes, etc.

[coleslawyum]

Hey man, whatever gear works the best. I have a couple of different guitars, each one suitable for different types of tone. I like Gibsons a lot. I have a LP re-issue from the custom shop. The tone is awesome. But the craftmanship is a bit shoddy compared to the other guitars I have. It doesn't mean it can't perform well for a gig, or a studio. It just means that whoever built this wasn't so careful with the quality control. I compare to a American car, like a Corvette. It has balls, it has power, but its missing the refinement that a Japanese or European car has. However, that just what I'm looking for.

[dismalfuture]

I had a v-neck made in Japan '57 Strat many years ago, that is probably the one guitar I miss the most...

[poopie boy]

What do you guys think about Guild Acoustic guitars? I'm thinking of buying a new acoustic and I am really liking the Guilds from what I've played.. From what i can see they seem to be a bargain being that you can get an all solid wood one made in USA for under $1000. Is there anything better in the price range or no?

PS. I can get a low end Gibson (made in canada) acoustic for $681 with employee discount, am I better off with that or is the quality of the Guilds superior these days?

[poly800rock]

i just fixed my 1969 twin with a $.50 fuse the other day, i feel great!

[Frutiger]

ahahah. i love the inferring that's going on.

first of all i would like to say that out of all the guitars i have played i prefer gibson because of MY EXPERIENCE. to state blandly, i've snapped the neck of an epi before... while playing. that was my last experience with them (i had previously owned 2 guitars from them). i would also like to call you on the quality control out of nashville being bad... have you checked? i've owned an SG standard and a firebird studio and the quality from both was 10/10. no paint flakes, no knots in the wood, etc.

now, i never said someone would want to have his guitar APPRECIATE IN VALUE. that's where you're assuming things. i merely said resale value, as in the resale value of a car. gibson's undoubtedly have one of the best resale values of any guitar makers (notice i said ONE OF THE BEST, there's definitely a few out there that make gem guitars). additionally, much to your surprise, guitars can appreciate in value. try buying a vintage fender/gibson from the 60's/70's. i'm guessing you'd pay just a tadddd more than what they cost in their day. oh, and i am talking about guitars for players not collectors... you brought up the $4000 LPs, remember?

for me warranty is quite an issue because i like dealing with someone who is going to work with me. in my experience, schecter, ltd and plenty of other "like" brands assume you did something wrong with the guitar and that's why there's a "problem." uh, fuck now, the company just produced a guitar that didn't perform.

lastly, um... unless you get a steal, a 9.5/10 standard PRS is worth maybe $1900 or $1800, depending on production date. sooooooo... yeah, semantically you can buy several (i.e., TWO) PRS guitars for the price of an expensive gibson. (and just a note, i've toured the PRS factory in stevensville maryland. the customs, as explained by the tour guide, are quite better than the standards, but the standards are still great. oh, and by "if you know what PRS guitar to get" i was referring to everything but their SE, korean made series which are a shame to the name of PRS, albeit tenfold better than epi's).

once again, i'm not trying to say THIS IS LAW. but in my experience, and though i have not dealt with every company (or even a fourth), i like gibson. they perform, they have the tone i want, they're not assholes, etc.

I wouldn't even think about buying a new guitar. I think new guitars are truly awful things. It's vintage all the way. You want amazing tone from your guitar? Buy vintage. You want good re-sale value? Buy vintage. You want to get the instrument with the most soul for your money? Buy vintage.

Now I know it's not a cheap thing to do but if you've got $4000 for instance then you would be an utter lunatic to buy a new guitar when you could be getting a mid 60's Gibson ES330 for that kind of money (& trust me when I say they're the BEST value vintage Gibson you can buy) for $2000 you're looking at 50's melody makers/ES125's & other budget guitars (before people start going "Melody makers are cheap budget guitars" yeah the new ones are but get an old one & they're wipe the floor with most things. You want a fat biting single coil tone from a guitar? They've got it in spades.

Also for that sort of money you're looking at vintage Epiphones, proper US made Epiphones (originally in New York & then in Philidephia when they were taken over by Conn in 1953), both are pre Gibson take over (in 1957) which switched building to Kalamazoo alongside the full Gibson line.

Please don't ever see an old Epiphone & think that they're cheap inferior guitars, pre 1969 you're geting full on Gibson quality. Pre '53 you're getting an awesome jazz guitar from one of the most established & well regarded companies in guitar history.

Oh I'd like to add that I'm not having a go at the original poster, it was just the first post that had main points I could use to talk about vintage guitars. I also know that I'm very fortunate that I can afford to play & collect vintage guitars & due to this have played pretty much everything Gibson have made (including two 1959 bursts & many other 50's solid's). I understand that lots of people can't or just don't feel comfortable buying old guitars due to warranties & that kind of thing. I'm just here to say give it a go.

Have a look at mine a couple of pages back to see what I mean.

[erk]

hello everyone! I actually just discovered this awesome thread!

anyways heres my contribution.

rickenbacker 360/12

epiphone casino

gretsch 6120 1960 reissue

I couldn't find a decent picture of my amplifier, but it is a 2006 Vox AC-30CC2x.

I dont have any photos I've done of my equipment, so I just found these on the net.

[.API.]

I wouldn't even think about buying a new guitar. I think new guitars are truly awful things. It's vintage all the way.

this makes me laugh.. lets all try this for a few years and see what the state of the industry is.....

truly awful...

[soap]

I wouldn't even think about buying a new guitar. I think new guitars are truly awful things. It's vintage all the way. You want amazing tone from your guitar? Buy vintage. You want good re-sale value? Buy vintage. You want to get the instrument with the most soul for your money? Buy vintage.

I don't even understand this statement...you are talking about soul from a guitar??? I am pretty sure BB could pick up a new guitar and get some soul out of it. I think the soul is what you put in..sure the tone will be different, but if everyone was as "intelligent" as you then there would be no vintage guitars...someone has to buy new. I understand if you have the money, why not buy exactly what you want, but to say new guitars are terrible is just stupid...a ton of great guitar players (professionals) play new guitars, but I guess you are "above" that status?

[erk]

I'd agree with you ^^

thats a pretty ridiculous statement.

quite a few guitar companies still turn out an extremely high quality products. especially rickenbacker. I've heard plenty of complaints from owners of Gibson products and epiphone. The epiphone casino I bought was damaged in shipping then repaired by the store, so I got it super cheap; but I still had to spend $175 to make it a playable guitar. Lets just say the fret job was quite sub-par. It sounds great though.

Gretsch used to have some quality control problems, but fender seams to have fixed that.

I'm not saying that vintage stuff isn't cool and often times better, I just think that not even giving new guitars a chance is a bit much.

[poopie boy]

i agree with the above statements. fender, for example, have been putting out great strats as of late.

i think the statement may apply more towards acoustic guitars and less towards electrics. while newer electrics (from certain brands) sound better than older ones, acoustics almost always sound better when they've aged a few years. they have a dryer woodier tone and often sound louder.

i've played some 60s and 70s gibson acoustics that sound a lot better than newer ones of the same models, but there are always always going to be some duds out there.

my eyes lit up the other day when i saw a 1964 gibson j160 in a store, i picked it up and it sounded dead.

you can't say "you gotta buy vintage" or "you gotta buy new" or "you gotta buy (insert brand)" or any of that. try every guitar and just buy the one that feels comfortable, sounds nice, and is just fun to play. if there was a certain type of guitar that was undeniably better than all others, thats what everyone would play.

[tmadd]

I'll go ahead and come to the defense of the notion that vintage/used offers an almost uniformly better option, though I don't quite agree with the dogmatic language of always vintage/never new. If you find a new guitar that you like the sound and the feel of that fits your budget, buy it by all means. However, especially when inhabiting the sub-1.5-2K dollar range, it is incredibly likely that this guitar doesn't have anything about its sound, playability, look, or quality-per-dollar spent that would differentiate it from a whole slew of other guitars available including the tons of guitars of the same make and model. Plus if you are buying it new, in a shop, you are paying an incredible markup that is completely unnecessary with things like ebay and/or craigslist.

When you buy used or vintage (especially high quality japanese stuff from the 70's and 80's) you are able to pay close to, if not exactly the market price of the instrument, and you don't lose 30 to 50% of its value just by taking the stickers off and walking out of the guitar shop with it. Also, if you are buying older instruments, even if they are from the lowest-line from their manufacturer, they were manufactured with higher quality components, better attention to detail and higher quality control than their low budget-contemporaries of today (of course there are exceptions like some recent standouts, and older guitars you are usually better off avoiding like Norlin-era Les Pauls). I think there is something to think about when you look at the fact that Fender's lowest price offering that even comes close to replicating the craftsmanship and level of detail that used to be a part of every instrument they produced (which are now god-awfully expensive for reasons relating to scarcity) is the $1500 and up custom shop series. When you buy new, a huge percentage of what you are paying for is rent for the middlemen involved, and the obscene amount of marketing that musical instrument companies pay for...when you buy used/vintage, you are coming much closer to paying for the actual value of the instrument.

[isoform]

What do you guys think about Guild Acoustic guitars? I'm thinking of buying a new acoustic and I am really liking the Guilds from what I've played.. From what i can see they seem to be a bargain being that you can get an all solid wood one made in USA for under $1000. Is there anything better in the price range or no?

PS. I can get a low end Gibson (made in canada) acoustic for $681 with employee discount, am I better off with that or is the quality of the Guilds superior these days?

Not nearly as knowledgeable as anyone on the thread, but i saw a high/er end all-wood acoustic electric seagull (canada made) for as low as 650 w/ the holiday discounts/before tax...

[.API.]

you can't say "you gotta buy vintage" or "you gotta buy new" or "you gotta buy (insert brand)" or any of that. try every guitar and just buy the one that feels comfortable, sounds nice, and is just fun to play. if there was a certain type of guitar that was undeniably better than all others, thats what everyone would play.

i'll kill two birds here... amen to this^^. for most players the effect laden tone of late, the new vs vintage tone is indistinguishable, and even to those with the trained ear is quite difficult to distinguish. i may be a minority but i believe tone comes from the hands that play, and have heard time and again a truly amazing player come in to a shop and grab a run of the mill guitar and craft sounds that would make you weep...

I'll go ahead and come to the defense of the notion that vintage/used offers an almost uniformly better option

here is the catch. made in america comes at such a high premium that it almost becomes unreachable by most of us. we need to get back to the days when craftsman in this country were appreciated. the majority of foreign made guitars seem to be of far inferior quality (and its not the country of origin, because some great originals have come from small batch companies in almost every country, its the manufacturer trying to pump them out assembly line fashion with no regard for quality and craftsmanship)

[poly800rock]

so you guys buy stuff for re-sale value? i haven't ever sold my guitars/amps. guitars solely because I've played them so much (regardless of how they sound or where they're made) because they're like my 3 arm. Amps because I spent so much time tweaking it as is.

[poopie boy]

buying something without considering resale value is just plain dumb. you have to at least have it be 1% of the determining factor when buying a guitar. your musical tastes will change and with that you will want to buy other guitars and will be trading off. even if you plan to keep every instrument, you can't say that under an extreme emergency situation where you need money quick, the resale value of a guitar doesn't come in handy..

on the AVERAGE, vintage gives you a better bang for the buck. all i was saying is that there are definitely some vintage duds out there and you cant blindly go vintage and ignore new. there are some new guitars out there of great quality and at a great price.

the real determining factors are where it was made, the quality of the parts used and the quality of craftsmanship. to say that an older guitar will be better because its older and a newer guitar will be worse because its newer is just plain retarded.

although there is a loose relationship between great tone and vintage guitars, it is not necessarily a cause and effect relationship.

i have a 1997 fender strat made in mexico and i love the way it sounds. it can definitely be improved but it sounds better than a lot of newer american strats, 80s american strats, even a 67 strat that i played. i've also played 2008 american and jap strats that blow mine out of the water, as well as 80s and 70s strats that kill mine too. the age has nothing to do with it

i definitely agree with the guy that said the largest factor to good tone is in the player's fingers. i suck (in my opinion) but i have some friends that bring sounds out of my guitar i never thought it was capable of.

i'd say the tone breakdown is

50% the player

25% the amp

15% the guitar

7% the effects

3% the pick

thats my personal opinion anyway.

[cure]

i play a PRS single cut trem (violin amber burst), an american fender strat w/ push-pull knobs (single-single-humbucker pickups), and my first love, a epiphone cherry dot mostly out of a mesa boogie rectoverb when i'm at home or a roland cube 30-watt when i'm at school.

i'd kill for a vintage SG though. My guitar teacher had one from the 1970s and had killer tone. mmm lets get some pics in this thread

[Corbin Law]

i play a '69 tele thinline

a buddy of mine inhereted a balls to the walls awesome, vintage SG, might be '68 or something around that. beautiful guitar.

another friend just bought a devlin archtop, amazing tone.

[jeepster]

check my sale thread, yo

[Ed x TWWK]

I play bass, and tour 6+ months a year.

www.myspace.com/theworldweknew

Rig:

2 Ampeg SVT 810 Cabinets

Ampeg SVT4-Pro Amplifier

SansAmp Rackmount RBI Preamp

DBX266xl Compressor

Korg DTR 1000 Tuner

X2 XDR-95 Wireless System

Hybrid Cases 10 Space Shockmount Rolling Rack

Basses:

Musicman Stingray 4H - Black / Black - Rosewood Neck

Musicman Stingray 4H - Burnt Apple - Rosewood Neck

Musicman Stingray 4HH - Black Cherry Burst, Matching Headstock - Rosewood neck

Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass

Fender MIM Precision Bass Deluxe

Warwick Corvette Double $$ - Black (R.I.P. - band's trailer got hit by a mack truck...)

[RFKorp]

^^ is it wrong to admit this photo makes me hard?

[Ed x TWWK]

^^ is it wrong to admit this photo makes me hard?

mine?

if so, no that is not even remotely wrong...at all.

[jeepster]

check my sale thread, yo

bump. (serious)

[Thorns]

If you guys would all kindly inform me that purchasing either of these two instruments is a huge waste of money my wallet would be eternally grateful.

[poly800rock]

bump. (serious)

you're better off on craigslist. but a name like crate won;t turn many heads, no matter how great it sounds

[octo]

I think my favorite gutar player with the best tones is definetly Matt Pike in Sleep and High on Fire. Super unconventional style of playing too. amazing. It rocks my socks.

check it

[the Repeater]

Thorns, I think PRS's are a lot better, even the cheap ones.

Gibsons win in looks and sometimes tone, but are really variable in quality and I think have an overall lesser playability.

PRS fatnecks feel amazing. I have two LPs. I would swap either for a PRS.