Gap Selvedge Denim Critique...

[kiya]

How strange that just today this article was printed in today's San Francisco Chronicle...

It doesn't look too good for The Gap...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/22/BUGIENN18C4.DTL

Kinda sad considering they played such an important role years ago to bringing denim to a larger audience; my mom used to buy me my jeans at the Gap on Geary Street in the late 70's and early 80's... Even their original era of being a Levi's only reseller in San Francisco is forgotten these days..

[glitz_inc]

As much as I'd love to respect their opinion, it really doesn't reflect the views of the company. They still made money, just not as much as they might have hoped to. Hell, I remember getting clothing at Abercrombie (new items, mind you) that came with clearance pricing, because they knew it wouldn't sell at "normal" price. So, the few people that bought it at the "normal" price actually boosted the numbers. Is this indicative of what happened with the Gap selvege? No, of course not. But if I know anything about the corporate retail world, the prices would not fall through the roof as drastically as these did unless they planned on selling them at a much lower price point. Hence, the term "flop" is a misnomer by your colleagues.

As a former retail guy myself, I've got to point out two errors in this analysis:

1. It's true that Gap's actual production cost is a lot lower than their retail levels. So in respect to raw materials, they turned a profit. However, pulling out this special edition item surely took extra effort from the design and sourcing team - which has to be caluclated. The people sewing the garments might be cheap, but the marketing and brand management people who determine the assortment aren't. While you're totally right about planned markdown items, those are usually holiday basics - like cheap cashmere or merino sweaters - which have mass appeal and can sell in huge numbers.

2. Any large retailer has to consider the "opportunity cost" of putting something onto the floor. This is especially crucial for someone like the Gap - which often has limited space in their individual stores. If they create a display for a lukewarm item like the selvedge jeans, then they take space and attention away from something that could be selling better - like some boring-ass barn jacket or v-neck sweater. This is a real loss for them.

So, it's very possible that these jeans - even if they don't lose money on production - can still be a major flop. One of about 9 million that the Gap makes every season.

Seriously, what do the executives who work there think when another report about the runaway success of American Apparel comes out. All of the Gap's money and talent can't even stand in the shadow of a pseudo-pedophile Terry Richardson-wanna be who makes terrible t-shirts and "dazzle leggings." That guy's doing something right.

[pokpok]

Sure, but these things happen. And really, what determines when a multinational store issues a failed product? The fact that the literati don't like it? That it gets discounted? I saw dude on the street wearing the Gough's today, and they looked really great on him. I'm yet to encounter a guy wearing anything like SDA, Cane, Samurai, and I live in Boston, not hicksville USA.

So something failed, so what? It becomes everybodys opportunity to say, "look, someone did something wrong, let me point out what went wrong"

i wore the gough's yesterday..it coulda been me lol

[pokpok]

i dont think the gough's failed since most people had trouble finding their sizes for these jeans.. the gaps i went to are all sold out of the gough's before they hit 20 bux... the only reason they go on sale because they have to move the old inventory and start selling the new collection..

just take them as what they have to have offer, a cheap alternative to other raw selvedge denim...i bought a pair because nobody had them and im really anxious to see how these jeans fade in to...

[Guest bigsink2]

It flopped because thats the way the american eye works.

Would the average customer pay 2x more for a fancy seam and indigo that bleeds? The cut is the same as the gap straights which seem to fly off the shelves.

Only an enthusiast would appreciate a raw/selvedge jean and be willing to pay more for it.

The toyota camry out-sells the honda s2000 a zillion to one. Does it mean the s2000 was a flop? no. It serves a different purpose. I love gaps straight cut just as much as APCs and Nudies straights. The worst part is the rear pockets and blue stitching on the bottom. If you lay it next to those other brands the difference isnt even worth talking about.

[cheapmuthafukr]

im using mine to patch jeans as they wear out.

[mikesduc]

Certainly, even their premium products are not meant to appeal to people posting on a fashion forum, nor is the fit of their jeans. I gather that the average waist size here is about a 32 or so (no hating, I have a 30 waist myself.) However, the average American man has a size 36 waist, and a belly and body to match. And he doesn't like tight anything... In fact, what is considered "normal" fit here (and on Styleforum, though to a lesser degree) is considered really tight by your average American.

So true. I live in WV, the 2nd fattest state in the U.S. and I feel skinny at a 32/33 until I go to NYC and then I feel like a fat bastard. Gap is IMO a "cool" alternative to Wal-Mart, Sears,K-Mart and the like. Prices are about the same but Gap has marketed itself differently. My kids grew up in Gap sale merchandise because they needed cheap disposable clothing. And that's what Gap provides:its not supposed to be quality because that's not what people want. They want cool and cheap.

Comparing Gap to SuFu level jeans is like comparing a Ferrari to a souped up Dodge Neon. I'ts not possible.

[zelah]

they're not on sale because no one likes them, they're on sale because everything at the gap eventually goes on sale, especially when making way for new season lines

[soda]

im using mine to patch jeans as they wear out.

That's using your head.

I felt like I needed a pair because of the quality of the denim and the cost ($20CAN), but I couldn'y justify a pair. I really don't like the leg from the knee down, but it's those damn pockets that drove me away.

BUT, they would make perfect mending material. Or I could have bought several pairs and had them made into a denim quilt. Don't laugh, my friend's grandmother made one out of denim scraps, and it is so awesome.

On a similiar note, there is a line of sweatshirts that fit nice but have weak designs on them; flip them inside out and take a seam-ripper to the label. Voilà! vintage sweatshirt for cheap.

[Guest StuckOnStupid]

I'm yet to encounter a guy wearing anything like SDA, Cane, Samurai, and I live in Boston, not hicksville USA.

yes, Boston. A style mecca, im sure.

fuckin chiefs and bros everywhere.

[ishtob]

Sure, but these things happen. And really, what determines when a multinational store issues a failed product? The fact that the literati don't like it? That it gets discounted? I saw dude on the street wearing the Gough's today, and they looked really great on him. I'm yet to encounter a guy wearing anything like SDA, Cane, Samurai, and I live in Boston, not hicksville USA.

So something failed, so what? It becomes everybodys opportunity to say, "look, someone did something wrong, let me point out what went wrong"

i live in boston too, and i have a pair of Johnbulls on rite now

[ishtob]

ok, just got back from a lil shopping, the 2 gaps that i went to only had the morrisons and that wierd selveged straight leg fit thing.... the morrisons were pretty dark... but had no selveged and is very evidently washed, i wasnt able to find any ghoghs... the store casheer said they dont carry those so didnt get to compair the quality

iverall i think it would be a better idea to jsut save taht $50 and get some nicer japnese denim later on

[fade to black2]

the one i saw was the morrison i think - looking inside the legs, it LOOKS like selvedge but at the same time not quite...does anyone know what i'm talkin about? It's got that wide selvedge look-alike thing on the inside leg sides. Is that selvedge or not? oh the one i saw was very clearly washed too, wasn't pre-distressed but definitely at least a one wash dark denim.

[white_giraffe]

are you talking about the ones that looks like the red was painted on the selvedge rather than traditional woven colored threads? b/c i was wondering the same thing. is that real selvedge? if it is, it looks cheap.

[ishtob]

i dont think it's selvedge

[white_giraffe]

i guess it's hard to know which ones i'm referencing without pics. i'm talking about these ones...

they just look weird to me is all.

[tweeds]

yes, that is "real" selvedge (whatever that is).

[white_giraffe]

haha yeah i looked at it closer. hard to tell anything on comp screens. i still think it looks cheap tho.

[Drift]

for the money they are better than alot of other 40 doller jeans.....

what do you honestly expect from the gap and for that price tag?

[Darkadious]

for the money they are better than alot of other 40 doller jeans.....

what do you honestly expect from the gap and for that price tag?

it's only cheap when it's on sale, at regular price it's rape.

[ishtob]

i got a pair of goughs last month for $10 at harvard square... been going back there to see if they have more so i can have more than a pair of these to beat up and mess around with.. but so far.. no luck : (

[unklesteve]

All questions of denim quality aside, I just would have been impressed if they had done a better cut.

I've never tried on a pair of Gap jeans that didn't look like total crap on me, and feel slightly awkward. I was kinda hoping these would be a better cut than their usual fare, but it seemed like same-old same-old to me.

I really don't know enough about selvedge yet to comment on much more than that. Their metal tag info strikes me as the kind of nonsense jargon that most companies use to sell something that is new, so that neither surprises nor offends me. Status quo, regrettably.

Oh well. Would have been a helluva bargain if they had fit well.

[salaami]

the gap isnt ever going to make anything of comparable quality to an artisanal brand, japanese or otherwise. but i really dont appreciate someone who sells an artisanal brand unauthorized(Samurai), and then smashes other's brands that @least have the respect to sell their own product, however shitty.(if youve ever seen the samurai new years eve card, it has a list of authorized retailers, and Self-Edge is NOT one of them.BIG is the only authorized non-asian retailer) plus after buying samurai's @$300, im mad i paid 225 for nudies, when i could have gone to BIG, and got the oni blues, which i still have to have. respect the game, then the name...and we wonder why a lot of the better brands dont care to sell their jeans to us, or through us(americans)? if someone sold those ironheartXself edge collabos without permission, kiya would shit in his shoas...

[rome1]

just read the whole thread and all i know is i pick up the gap stuff because its cheaper and i dont really give a shit if it gets ruined or ripped, so i skate in um' , fix shit outside in um'. They are also good for experimentation ie: overdying, cutting and hemming, patches for other jeans "cheap said it already" so they do serve a purpose. Now im just waiting for Old Navy selvedge to become available!!! LOL!

[soundbomber]

The only Gap selvage I own are the Product Red's, and I paid $30 for them or I wouldn't have bought them at all. The selvage inseam is very narrow and strikingly odd looking, the pre-distressing could do without, the overall cut is decent compared to their other selvage, the african cotton has a unique rigid feel to them, but the fit is moreso on the regular side then slim-straight.

However in the past, I bought a pair of their 1969 rigid one wash selvage and was not impressed at all. The cut was horrible, the seat was baggy, the overall construction was crap. They were returned the same day.

[entrust]

i have a pair of these jeans and for the $50 i paid i have no complaints, they are my baggiest jeans and they are great for doing whatever, i don't feel bad about getting them dirty. here are mine after about 60 wears or so and one hand wash a few wears ago.

[romeo291]

I have a pair of Gough selvage.......I got them last christmas, they were only $20. They're nice in my opinion, the cut is nice to me......since I don't like super slim jeans. I also recently bought a pair of the RED selvage jeans, they were on sale for $29.99. They fit nice and looks great too.

A couple things I do agree upon:

1) they're definitely a flop, or else they won't be selling for so cheap when the retail is much higher.

2) of course they're not up to par with companies that specializes in selvage denim since GAP target the masses

But the thing is, they're cheap and they're not total pieces of shits. If you can find them for under $30, then they would definitely worth your money. I'll try to post some evolution pictures for you guys when I get a chance.

[zelah]

I turned my Goughs into cut offs, i didn't like anything from the knee down, so thats where i cut

ignore the winter whiteness

[rome1]

Wheres the chainstitched hem?

[Chipper]

yes, Boston. A style mecca, im sure.

fuckin chiefs and bros everywhere.

lol....weak...haha.