Digital SLRs?

[nairb49]

I'm sick of taking digital snaps, and want to get into some more involved photography.

I am however, totally green when it comes to it. So, if anyone (carl, canice etc) feel like giving me a quick 101 on the basics and must-knows before I start, that would be much appreciated.

A camera will be needed I assume, so advice on a good starter camera would be great too.

cheers

[mike lowrey]

so you were probably thinking of a digital SLR?

I'd definately go with a Canon 350D (or I think they call it Digital Rebel in the US?), its a really easy camera to start using and you will get far with it too. to give an idea the equivalent 300D was my first SLR, and with the 350 I've now shot for magazine and print use.

the kit lense it comes with is also very good for a stock one, so you dont need to stack up on different lenses and stuff. I've only gotten one longer one for different use in the few years I've used them.

also if you wanna save some cash, you can probably find them used for a reasonable price. I got my older 300D used in perfect condition for €400, when the retail price at the time was like €900.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-Rebel-XT-f3-5-5-6/dp/B0007QKN22/sr=1-1/qid=1161535625/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2649957-4908042?ie=UTF8&s=photo

[mike lowrey]

oh and I've used my friends Nikon (dont remember the model but an equivalent one) and preffered the Canon much better.

what comes to learning how to shoot, its pretty much just practise and practise. you'll get the hang of it quicly I'm sure and then you just need to get used to different settings and adjustments etc, its honestly really fun to learn and see yourself develop.

[nairb49]

ah, wicked. how could i forget the photography skills of lowrey.

So I shouldn't bother with the old stuff, stick with digital? and in terms of buying used, what sort of questions should I be asking the seller? ie. do cameras have a "mileage" indicator or anything?

btw-have any used cameras to sell me?

[Carl]

What do you want to know?

Im assuming you'd like to shoot b/w film as that really is the best way to learn.

First things first, to learn the b/w process the best way is to be taught by someone present. Its not a thing to really learn over the internet. So my advice to you on that is look up the possibility of taking some darkroom photo classes. They'll teach you the basics on exposure, processing, and printing. The technical stuff thats really only learned by trial and errror. Once you feel you have a good grasp on these things it is much easier to dispense meaningful advice.

As far as cameras go? Most pawn shops or camera stores will have old manual 35mm cameras with a lens for under 150. My suggestion is to get any one of these cameras i am about to list and a 35mm F2 lens;

Canon AE-1

Olympus OM-1 or OM-2

Nikon Nikkor Series

Pentax K-1000

Any more questions, please by all means, ask.

[nairb49]

and to deal with developing, I have some experience with photoshop for work, but not with photos. Are there any programs that I should be looking into, or will most programs do the trick?

carl-cheers. I'm not too sure exactly what i'm asking, which makes things troublesome, to be sure.

I have experience with darkrooms, again through my job, but nothing to do with photographs. (if you're curious, it has to do with research and films exposed by fluroescent chemicals).

so back to a prevoius questoin, what should i be looking for if i choose to go to a pawn shop to look for a camera?

[nairb49]

ah, cool cool, I keep on forgetting who the photo-buffs are. Thanks for the input.

Just briefly checked out ebay, and the 300D is a bit more than I'm looking to spend just yet, at around 500 or so. But i'll keep searching.

[Carl]

Any cheap SLR is gonna be, as ya'll say across the big drink, rubbish.

Nairb, stick to the B/W process. It is just a much better way to learn photogrpahy. You'll be happy you did.

Any of the cameras i listed with a 35mm F2 lens should be available either at camera stores or pawn shops. There is no real "mileage" indicator so ask when the camera was last serviced. Ive shot withh cameras made in the 1940's that preformed flawlessly. How many pictures you've shot on a camera really only comes into play with digital.

[nairb49]

great, and the cameras youlisted should all be available for ~150 (so I don't get swindled).

[Carl]

Yeah, i think so, its been a couple years since ive been in a camera store and looked at used SLR's.

Id take in 200 dollars and see what you can work out. Where do you live? Find out where the best camera store is in your area and go talk to them. They'll probably be able to help you out finding classes for photography too.

Also for B/W film stick to Kodak Tri-X 400 or Illford HP-5 (or delta 400 but that stuff can be kinda spendy), and stay away from Kodak T-Max films.

[mike lowrey]

Any cheap SLR is gonna be, as ya'll say across the big drink, rubbish.

hmm, what do you mean with cheap? the 350D runs at about $700-800 at some places which I consider very cheap but its an extremely good camera. same goes for the Nikon D50, even though I prefer the Canon the nikon is also very good.

its pretty much up to you which route you choose (b/w - digital), I sticked with digital and I've been extremely happy, I just enjoy the simplicity and ease of SLR's. re: the price, I think it would be possible to find one for around $400, which is kind of stupid since thats how much a good point and shoot digital costs, yet the difference is like night and day

Rir, about the bundle lens, I don't man, I've been really happy with it and the magazine pictures ended up being good too, so it's definately not worthless a friend of mine spent a couple of g's on a few lenses for his 350D but after a couple of months sold them and bought back the EOS 18-55

[nairb49]

great stuff guys, thanks!

I think, upon consideration and due in part to my laziness, that if I want this to be something I really stick with I'll go with a digital. Instant gratification type thing.

Anyways, believe it or not I just got back from a couple camera stores and had a look at some of the entry-level SLRs.

Canon Rebel XT was around 900 CAD, and the Nikon D50 at 800.

So I'll still check it out to see if I can scope out a used version, especially, Mike, if you think I'd be able to hover around 400.

[mike lowrey]

well the rebel is around 700-800 usd, so if you find a good deal you could be able to find it for 400-500. not sure what the price level in ca is though, so depends on that and availability.

its a bit hard to search for a used one on ebay cause theres about 500 new ones

[nairb49]

hahaaha, just discovered that

did you get yours used from a shop/friend etc?

[poly800rock]

i think the biggest problem for anyone learning on film these days is that it's so expensive. you're camera will be cheap, but everything after that is expensive, and thats just to learn...

[masuerte]

great stuff guys, thanks!

I think, upon consideration and due in part to my laziness, that if I want this to be something I really stick with I'll go with a digital. Instant gratification type thing.

Anyways, believe it or not I just got back from a couple camera stores and had a look at some of the entry-level SLRs.

Canon Rebel XT was around 900 CAD, and the Nikon D50 at 800.

So I'll still check it out to see if I can scope out a used version, especially, Mike, if you think I'd be able to hover around 400.

I have one answer for you to learn SLR things for under or around 300 without dropping on an entry-level digital SLR which will be worth nothing in a few years. Get a Canon A620(630 or 640) might also be good.

If you get this camera, you can enjoy having a small camera with MANY auto shooting modes as well as an almost SLR manual mode. You can adjust aperture, exposure time, manual focus etc. To learn more about capabilities of this cam goto DPREVIEW.com

This will save you money now while giving you a camera with superior manual adjustment capabilities from current digicams at that size and price. You can take good pictures while saving 200-300 dollars towards an even more superior Digital SLR 1-3 years from now.

I take my camera with me EVERYWHERE... giving me the ability to learn about adjusting my camera in more situations. I even take a few pictures during my bus commute to and from work. If I bought a Digital SLR right now, it's just too big for me to bring everywhere.

I really respect DSLR cameras and want to get one myself. But I think even with a DSLR, I'll still use my A620 more. Everyone should have this camera!

[mike lowrey]

I think the 350D is actually pretty compact, I mean I of course can't fit it in my pocket but then again I have a Sony T-1 as a point and shoot which is very small, yet I still dont carry it in my pocket. the 350 fits in the smallest bag so I dont think there really is that much difference.

and what goes for price, I bought the old 300D for 400€ and sold it for the same price about 1½ year later, so even though they might lose value in the long run, its such a popular model that unless you keep it for many many years you should be able to switch it for a reasonable price.

nairb, I got it a local camera store

[LIVENUDEGIRLS]

Generally speaking how safe do you guys think it is to get refurb stuff?

[canice]

i missed this thread somehow.

dittoing carl, i'd suggest you pick up a cheap 35mm SLR (like super old pentaxes and nikons from the 70's) and buy a whole load of kodak tri-x film. it's cheap, it's fun, the cameras could survive a nuclear blast, and black and white will teach you the fundamentals of photography. and who doesn't like ruining all their clothes with developer?

going digital is practical and a little more economic these days (with all the 300Ds and D70s hitting the used market) but i really feel people are missing out on the process of how a photograph is made from beginning to end.

shooting on film and printing photos in a darkroom will teach you how to use light to your advantage very well - so that when you do switch to digital, you'll have a better grip on what burning/dodging and all the other digital darkroom tools you have in photoshop actually mean.

oh, and i don't agree with masuerte. everyone i've met that owned a prosumer digital camera got frustrated with them within a few weeks, because its limitations stop just short of all the things an SLR can do. the price points differences are so marginal now that you may as well drop an extra $200 and buy a used D-SLR.

[nairb49]

i missed this thread somehow.

dittoing carl, i'd suggest you pick up a cheap 35mm SLR (like super old pentaxes and nikons from the 70's) and buy a whole load of kodak tri-x film. it's cheap, it's fun, the cameras could survive a nuclear blast, and black and white will teach you the fundamentals of photography. and who doesn't like ruining all their clothes with developer?

Thanks for the input Canice. I had a brief look around the city, and found some possible sources for cameras. Unfortunately, very few of the ones Carl initially suggested were available, most of them were these weird Pentax ones.

The search continues....

[mike lowrey]

going digital is practical and a little more economic these days (with all the 300Ds and D70s hitting the used market) but i really feel people are missing out on the process of how a photograph is made from beginning to end.

I agree with you. to be honest I'm probably not that interested in the overall process, developing etc, so digital is the obvious pick for me. its pretty much a matter of both preference and interested, if you're more interested in simple shooting and prefer a bit more practical way then its probably digital, but if you're interested in the process itself, developing andshooting on film then you should definately go the traditional way.

[xcoldricex]

yeah, while i'd love to get my hands dirty in a darkroom i don't have the time or resources.

is the 350d>300d? i know lots of new camera's fuck up what the older model was good at...

[Moz]

is the 350d>300d? i know lots of new camera's fuck up what the older model was good at...

Short answer; Yes, its better!

This http://www.dpreview.com/ site has lots of reviews to check out.

[mike lowrey]

yeah, while i'd love to get my hands dirty in a darkroom i don't have the time or resources.

is the 350d>300d? i know lots of new camera's fuck up what the older model was good at...

yea it is, some say the smaller size is a bit too small but I love it, I used my sisters 300D a while ago and it felt huge and bulky after the 350. some other improvements too, basics are pretty much the same but I'd definately pick the 350. unless theres a huge price difference.

[nairb49]

hmmmm

I'm still back and forth, but leaning towards digital due to 1-difficulty finding a camera, 2-limited access to darkroom chemicals etc.

I have a darkroom, but none of the necessary materials unfortunately.

I'm just put off by the initial investment of at least 6-700 bucks, so I'm goign to take my time searching for a reasonable deal. Hopefully I can score a D-slr for around 3-400 dollars.

(if you know any...)

[nairb49]

perfect! sell me your 300ds for cheap

[xcoldricex]

you can get the 400d (XTi）@ Dell with 20% off coupon (buy from ebay for $1) with or without the lens. $799-20%=$639.20 plus tax for the body only looks like a good deal. probably would want to buy a separate lens? (you can buy the kit for $899=20% but i assume the packaged lens won't be very good) doubt you'll find a better deal than this!

edit: not sure if the 20% coupons still apply, the one that was certain expired but you could try.

[xcoldricex]

newegg has the XT body for $578.99 and doesn't charge tax in most places.

[wild_whiskey]

Surprised to see so much love for Canons here. I thought Nikon was the scene camera brand of choice. Of course, it doesn't matter anyway, what matters is the pictures you take.

I don't think it's necessary (though it's fun) to learn film process, etc. Though I can say, point & shoot pictures are simply *not* photographs... so if you aren't getting a DSLR, don't even bother with a digital camera... It gets difficult to explain, but sticking a camera a foot out in front of your face and staring at the LCD screen just ain't photography.

Anyway, I noticed this discussion is mostly about cameras, and IMO that's getting off on the wrong foot already. A disposable camera can make pictures more compelling than a $4000 DSLR... so just get some kind of SLR and start taking shitloads of pictures.

[Demronick]

im pretty much on the same boat with nairb49

however im thinking of jumping straight ahead and buy 30D instead..

im thinking either 30D or D80, but i think canon is much more versatile?

would this be a bad idea?

also what other lens would you recommend to buy, other than the standard lens with the camera?