Ralph Lauren loses sleep over "premium denim"

[BumbaClot]

Interesting article from "Ad Age" if you like polo.

Talks about the termination of the "polo jeans" line to pursue larger denim dreams.

A good move in my opinion.

p.......

Ralph Lauren Kills U.S. Polo Jeans Product Line

Cites a 'Run Down' Brand that was 'Over-Promoted and Over-Distributed'

By Stephanie Thompson

Published: June 05, 2006

NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- How much can you squander on a licensed luxury brand gone awry? If you're Polo Ralph Lauren, about $355 million.

The Polo Jeans brand was 'over-promoted and over-distributed' said COO Roger Farrah. It is being discontinued in the U.S. market.

The Polo Jeans brand was 'over-promoted and over-distributed' said COO Roger Farrah. It is being discontinued in the U.S. market.

License buy-back

The preppy-clothing purveyor paid the vast nine-figure sum in February to buy back its Polo Jeans Co. brand from licensee Jones Apparel Group and, not four months later, said it will discontinue it in the U.S. According to President-Chief Operating Officer Roger Farrah, Polo Jeans Co. had become "run down a bit, over-promoted and over-distributed."

Moreover, the licensing contract prevented denim doyen Ralph Lauren from becoming a real player in the exploding premium denim category with the designer's other high-end brands.

Rethinking licensing deals

The pricey buyback is a trend, not only for Polo -- which is increasingly limiting its licensing deals to more controllable categories and geographies -- but for many companies that are finding the "price for licensing out their brands from an image standpoint may not be worth all that extra revenue," said Marshal Cohen, NPD Group's chief industry analyst.

Mr. Cohen said Polo "missed the boat" in the premium-denim category, because licensee Jones put more emphasis on Costco than boutiques, where high-end denim is selling best. "When you think of premium denim, you think Ralph Lauren, but yet it's hard to find [the brand] in the upper-end places," he said. "And if anything keeps Ralph up at night, it's that he hasn't exploited premium denim, because he wears it every day."

The jeans-wearer, though, isn't even on the map in the over-$100 denim market, which over the last few years has reached $390 million or 3% of the $13 billion denim market for the year ended in April, according to NPD Group.

New premium denim line

So while the company is shelving the Polo Jeans brand in this country, it is introducing its first premium denim products under the Lauren brand for women and the Polo Ralph Lauren brand for men next year. Polo spokeswoman Nancy Murray said those efforts are just the first steps in a long-term strategy that includes pushing denim through all of Polo's 21 labels, from its hip 20-something Rugby to its high-end vintage Double RL and pricey Purple labels.

"The economics of reacquiring the license was so attractive because we were not taking back a brand; we were taking back a category of business that we weren't really able to design, grow and build," Ms. Murray said.

Polo, which spent $59 million in measured media in 2005, according to TNS Media Intelligence, will most likely spend far more on denim than the $5 million it committed to the Polo Jeans brand last year. Ms. Murray would only say that the company will put "significant resources" against its denim effort, which is handled in-house.

'A bit late in the game'

But even with those resources, is it too late? By all accounts, denim has slowed if not plateaued. McCann Erickson trend analyst Tom Julian said "it's a bit late in the game" for Polo to be entering premium denim, especially as "designer labels don't necessarily constitute success in denim today as much as unexpected labels from unexpected places."

Though NPD data show Hugo Boss ranks second in sales of men's jeans over $100 in department stores, other top names are all recent upstarts, such as Seven for all Mankind, Citizens of Humanity and Lucky, and the same is true for women's jeans

[wild_whiskey]

Quote: "When you think of premium denim, you think Ralph Lauren, but yet it's hard to find [the brand] in the upper-end places," he said. "And if anything keeps Ralph up at night, it's that he hasn't exploited premium denim, because he wears it every day."

That's wrong on just so many levels.

[BumbaClot]

"When you think of premium denim, you think Ralph Lauren,"

I love me some polo but i had a to shake my head at that too. ha

[cheapmuthafukr]

if he made all his jeans like the rrl authentics, hed be in good shape. besides rrl tho, polo is garbage when it comes to jeans.

shit...

[evisu 2000]

the only 2 pairs of jeans i own right now are polos (although i jus tplaced an order for 2 pairs of apcs). they're basically a 3 4 or 5 wash 501 cut i guess, made in tunisia. aside from the fact that they've stretched out a bit too much i really like them (obviously). but anyways i did rock polo jeans in highschool. when i die bury me with the lo on

[greentea]

i own a rrl selvedge denim. i liek to fit of the slim bootcut.they should continue to pursue that..

[Edge_Of_Denim]

Quote: "Why buy the $200 or $400 Polo product when you can buy something with the same brand cachet for $29?"

Er...Uhhh...Wha?...Ok, Polo may in fact be suffering the pains of irrelevancy, but Target's denim selection is better, is comparable in quality? Really? Well, shit...

I'm ninety-three/

You're sixteen/

There is nothing more for you and I

Melvins

[wild_whiskey]

Quote:

i own a rrl selvedge denim. i liek to fit of the slim bootcut.they should continue to pursue that..

--- Original message by greentea on Jun 6, 2006 02:40 PM

The designer who made that model you have left RRL to pursue her own label, Denimafia (Makers of 5EP)

[Noddy]

i suspect strange washes to be comin from RL...

[tweeds]

Quote:

Quote:

i own a rrl selvedge denim. i liek to fit of the slim bootcut.they should continue to pursue that..

--- Original message by greentea on Jun 6, 2006 02:40 PM

The designer who made that model you have left RRL to pursue her own label, Denimafia (Makers of 5EP)

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Jun 7, 2006 04:47 PM

Denimafia = Godmother + Hitman

<=> 5EP

i find their site very funny: http://www.denimafia.com/

from their About Us column

'"Godmother" and "Hitman" the duo behind the New York based company Denimafia, launched 5EP for Fall 2004. With more then 20 years experience, "Godmother's" resume reads like a whoÂfs who of the fashion industry. She has designed for Double RL, Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, DKNY, Diesel, just to name a few. Along with her partner "Hitman" ( who has been building custom race motorcycles for over ten years ) they presented their debut collection at the Winter 2004 To Be Confirmed show in New York. 5EP is based on the concept that there are five easy pieces in every person's wardrobe: a chino, a jean, a jacket, a tee shirt and a woven shirt.

Firm believers in the "Less is more" approach, 5EP is an unadorned and tightly edited collection of vintage inspired men's knits, outerwear, jeans, pants and shirts made from custom woven Japanese selvage denim, dead stock twill, and antique yarn dye patterns.

< = > 5EP

"And what is that exactly ?" you might ask.

And I might answer:

"Less than is equal to greater than with 5 Easy Pieces"

Got that ?

Yeah, there's a story here. Which we will now share. But, understand, as the risk of being a "former person" Âcif you get my driftÂc that being in possession of such information as this story might reveal, means that you are now sworn to partake of DENIMAFIA.

It was New Years Eve. 1999. While tipping a few at a blowout that would have done that song proud - you know, the one by that Little Caesar of a certain Purple Gang - a certain Skirt and a certain Young Turk suddenly found themselves lousy with ideas because of some Hank Williams Blues platter they was jiving to. With that olÂf Hillbilly moaning about "blue this" and "blue that", these two began thinkinÂf "Denim" - because these were the kind of blues the Skirt was well versed in. Why that is, for now, is off-the-record. The same as the monikers of this particular Skirt and this particular Young Turk. Which is why, for the time being, we will refer to the Skirt as "Godmother" and the Young Turk as "Hitman"....

Anyway...Godmother and Hitman were hittinÂf on all eights with such intensity, they made a marriage that fateful night. A marriage made in Denim, so to speak.

"What's the grift?" You might ask.

And we might answer:

<=> 5EP

Yeah - it's a symbol. Just like that one used by the aforementioned "The Artist Formerly Known As..." Just like something Godmother and Hitman saw on the cover of that aforementioned Hank Williams platter. The meaning is easy.

HereÂfs the rap:

Less than is equal to greater than.

Less is more.

It is a direction.

It is 5 Easy Pieces.

Think: Vintage, Workwear, Military

Think: Fabric, Fit, Finish

Think: Fashion

ThatÂfs the crop.

Savvy?

They ain't talking Mustache Pete denim gladrags. And Trendy? Wash your mouth out. They're talkin' Classic. But, Classic with a Japanese Angle. Because Godmother and Hitman found a Japanese angle that was worthy of The Association. The aforementioned Cosa Nostra, of which I spoke.'

[the black arm]

I saw a pair of the new RRL jeans this season at the sf union square store, they were high $200s vs. $185 for the dry bootcut RRLs from last year, the denim looked more or less the same on quick inspection, though they over embroidered the back pockets, which I didn't like, and looks like added some resin wash to crinckle them up. . . wasn't impressed with the direction they were going with. I really liked last year's dry RRLs, if they only made the cut straighter.

[sybaritical]

Quote: When you think of premium denim, you think Ralph Lauren,

LOL. How come a guy that deluded gets to be in charge of a company that big?

[Edge_Of_Denim]

Delusion requires willing accomplices in order for the deluded to become successdul. If no one plays along, one is judged to be insane. If, however, the deluded one gets others on board, then that individual stands a good chance of one day sitting atop a multi-billion dollar clothing empire. Or at the very least becoming President of The United States.

I'm ninety-three/

You're sixteen/

There is nothing more for you and I

Melvins

[cheapmuthafukr]

Quote:

I saw a pair of the new RRL jeans this season at the sf union square store, they were high $200s vs. $185 for the dry bootcut RRLs from last year, the denim looked more or less the same on quick inspection, though they over embroidered the back pockets, which I didn't like, and looks like added some resin wash to crinckle them up. . . wasn't impressed with the direction they were going with. I really liked last year's dry RRLs, if they only made the cut straighter.

--- Original message by the black arm on Jun 7, 2006 07:52 PM

search for the rrl "autentic" i have a pair and love them. never tried on a pair of 47s, but i imagine that they fit like that. slimmer than my redilne 501, about the same rise(5 button fly), cut less full in the seat. beautiful denim with a pink line selvage. worth the money if you can find them.

shit...

[the black arm]

Quote: When you think of premium denim, you think Ralph Lauren.

While I wouldn't go that far, double RL has a long history of producing premium, authentic-styled denim and western wear, and they have been in the premium denim business for just about as long as the premium denim business has been around.

great "old school" superfuture thread on RRL

http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=2725

and a fansite http://ralphlipschitz.tripod.com/

[sevenjeansareoverrated]

i think its harsh to compare polo to mossimo. I mean, Polo's RL line is disgusting, but if you go into their polo ralph lauren store and try on the ashmore original jean, it is very comfortable, not very chic, as mr lauren said, but good for the se7en for all mankind crowd, (i know my name is dedicated to my hatred of se7ens, but i admire their dominance of the denim marketplace)

[greentea]

yeah i dont knock thier hustle.

[Guest Fade to Black]

i pass by the ralph lauren store each day on my way to lunch and i see this pair of men's washed jeans that look a lot like the APC washed new standards for this season/the S/S 05 Dior orange overdyes. the jeans look sturdy enough, never went in to check them out in person though.

btw I like Denimafia's approach to a pared down wardrobe...if i had to become a nomad, that's pretty much all I'd take with me, just had to make sure I don't end up anywhere with cold weather.